Farrior likes what Butler brings to 'D'

[jitter77]

I think the point is that the team has no identity either on offense or defense. When cowher was here we were a power running team and a blitz heavy extremely physical D.
Now our offense is geared to being pass heavy, but it is inconsistent and lacks flow.
I don't even know how to categorize the D. We are not physical / aggressive and we don't have the players to be a finese / scheme defense. I don't know if it's Tomlin or the coordinators fault, but someone needs to take charge.
I think Butler needs to pick what we are going to be and stick with it. If we are going to be an aggressive attacking D then do it and not half *** it or give up if we get burnt. Don't blitz 8 guys and then have 15 yard cushions on the Wrs...

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I would argue that we do have an offensive identity. Just one that not too many die-hard Steelers fans are used to, will appreciate, or will like. Tomlin has stated many times that he admires the offense of the mid 2000's Cheats**. If you look at our skill positions, they have built an offense that is pretty darn similar in terms of personnel, and versatility.

2007 Pats**

QB Tom Brady
RB Kevin Faulk
WR Randy Moss
WR Donte' Stallworth
WR Wes Welker
TE Kyle Brady

2014 Steelers

QB Ben Roethlisberger
RB Le'Veon Bell
WR Antonio Brown
WR Markus Wheaton
WR Martavis Bryant
TE Heath Miller

In fact, looking over those players, one could argue that as a whole, the Steelers have assembled a group that has the potential to be better than those Cheats** teams on offense, while playing a similar style of football.

On Defense, they have also attempted to establish an identity. And it's the same identity that we've always had. They want to (as Butler and Mitchell stated) stop the run first to put themselves in a better position to defend/attack the passing game. The problem is that they haven't had the front 7 to do so successfully over the last few years. Hopefully with the infusion of new, young players we will see that change this year. In any event, I don't see it as a lack of an identity as much as a failure to assert that identity in recent years.

And yes, you are right. Butler does need to pick what type of Coordinator he is going to be a majority of the time. Either the attacking aggressive "Blitzburgh" type or the conservative, sit back and try not to get burnt type we've seen recently. However, to be fair to Dick, I think the latter was a defense of necessity. I mean the lack of talented personnel and/or the youth being brought in made using that type of defense a necessity. As far as Butler goes, I hope he realizes that there is a time and place to play either type of defense based upon situations and matchups.

 

[jitter77]

I agree they are built to resemble a broncos, pats, or indy offense, but they do not call plays like it. Look at our playoff game last year.. Bell was out so we run run run and run somemore. The consistency and flow is lacking. Based on their potential should be an easy fix with better gameplanning or Playcalling.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I agree they are built to resemble a broncos, pats, or indy offense, but they do not call plays like it. Look at our playoff game last year.. Bell was out so we run run run and run somemore. The consistency and flow is lacking. Based on their potential should be an easy fix with better gameplanning or Playcalling.

Sounds like you have more of a problem with the OC then. And some problem with the HC for OK'ing the game plan.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I think the Rooneys knew Tomlin was not really ready to be a head coach when they hired him. They loved him in the interview and knew he'd be somebody's HC within a few years. They knew it was their only chance to get Tomlin as HC. They had a veteran team and by keeping most of the coaches, it would give Tomlin some time to learn on the job.

Cowher had won the power struggle to get most of the say in the draft. Colbert was pretty much an administrator. I think they continued with giving Tomlin most of the say in the draft.

Starting with last year's draft it seems something has changed. Either Tomlin finally has a feel for 3-4 personnel or they increased the power of Colbert in the draft. They also seem to be using analytics a bit more in the draft.

I think Lebeau and other assistants had some input but it seems to me that Arians did a much better job of being the squeaky wheel and demending "playmakers". Meanwhile Lebeau seemed to be more silent as he used duct tape to keep a defense together.

The steelers are very secretive about their inner workings. The beat writers don't even know exactly who is making the calls. That's just my opinion based on what i've seen from the outside.

Of course, there is one more scenario. When Cowher left, Art turned into a mini Jerry Jones and started drafting and he's the one who kept drafting busts on defense. I don't think that's likely. The fact that so many of the players drafted were perfect fits for the Tampa 2 makes me think it was Tomlin mostly calling the shots.

 

[Wingman]

That appears to be exactly what he is saying


Isn't that what many of the complaints about Dick were; that his more recent defenses weren't aggressive and he just let the plays come to the defenders rather than going after the offenses? As someone said in the Polamalu hates everyone but Dan thread, once a player ofTroy's/Farrior's stature confirms something one way or the other, it's gospel.

I went back and read the article and it said he may add a little to the defense, put his twist on it. He also knows the guys and what they like so he will be catering to what they want. I see nothing more than Farrior trying to say nice things about a new coach in the DC spot that used to be his linebacker coach. Being aggressive with guys that can not cover will only get you beat faster particularly when there is no pass rush. We have yet to see if we will have guys that can cover this season and a pass rush, if we have both it will be something we have not had for a while.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I went back and read the article and it said he may add a little to the defense, put his twist on it. He also knows the guys and what they like so he will be catering to what they want. I see nothing more than Farrior trying to say nice things about a new coach in the DC spot that used to be his linebacker coach. Being aggressive with guys that can not cover will only get you beat faster particularly when there is no pass rush. We have yet to see if we will have guys that can cover this season and a pass rush, if we have both it will be something we have not had for a while.

My attempt at sarcasm was not well executed.

I do believe that Butler will be more aggressive than the latter stages of the DL era. It's what most new DCs do in order to put their stamp on a defense. I also believe that they attempted to get Butler the horses so that he COULD be more aggressive. There is potential with the 2 CBs drafted this year and even Holliman offers some value as a project (only a project because of his tackling). Then there's Dupree (the stud) along with Chickillo and LT. I truthfully can't remember the last time that DL was handed almost an entire draft class.

 

[Coach]

Butler has huge shoes to fill. Dick was a legend With a tough schedule Butler won't enjoy a honeymoon. He'll have to figure out how to get the defense off the field with a limited pass rush, limited coverage people, and loss of leadership in the secondary.

 

[deljzc]

My attempt at sarcasm was not well executed.

I do believe that Butler will be more aggressive than the latter stages of the DL era. It's what most new DCs do in order to put their stamp on a defense. I also believe that they attempted to get Butler the horses so that he COULD be more aggressive. There is potential with the 2 CBs drafted this year and even Holliman offers some value as a project (only a project because of his tackling). Then there's Dupree (the stud) along with Chickillo and LT. I truthfully can't remember the last time that DL was handed almost an entire draft class.

I would not count the chickens before they hatch.

And Tombert invested heavily in the defense way before this draft class.

As I've stated before 9 of Tombert's 17 round 1 and round 2 selections (including one of two this season) have been on Front-7 defenders, yet our pass rush has declined into it's worse 2-year stretch since 1989-1990.

Everyone says we've invested more in the offense and that's where the energy is going and that's where the money is going and we're changing philosophically to be an offensive team around Roethlisberger and that's just no true.

This team has attempted a LOT to improve the defense and they have failed. They have failed in talent evaluation, coaching and player development.

I don't know how much Dick Lebeau had to do with that failure or not. Probably some. But I still put more of it on Colbert and Tomlin and their strange investment to atypical linebackers and defensive lineman non-suited for becoming dominant players in our traditional 3-4 defense.

And even while I agree the film shows some concern, at least the selection of Dupree finally shows a selection of a BIG linebacker.

 

[Wingman]

My attempt at sarcasm was not well executed.

I do believe that Butler will be more aggressive than the latter stages of the DL era. It's what most new DCs do in order to put their stamp on a defense. I also believe that they attempted to get Butler the horses so that he COULD be more aggressive. There is potential with the 2 CBs drafted this year and even Holliman offers some value as a project (only a project because of his tackling). Then there's Dupree (the stud) along with Chickillo and LT. I truthfully can't remember the last time that DL was handed almost an entire draft class.

Your attempt was likely just fine, I suspect after a long road trip on the weekend I was just unusually thick when I read it. I do like your reasoning above. I hope it works out for the team.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I would not count the chickens before they hatch.

And Tombert invested heavily in the defense way before this draft class.

As I've stated before 9 of Tombert's 17 round 1 and round 2 selections (including one of two this season) have been on Front-7 defenders, yet our pass rush has declined into it's worse 2-year stretch since 1989-1990.

Everyone says we've invested more in the offense and that's where the energy is going and that's where the money is going and we're changing philosophically to be an offensive team around Roethlisberger and that's just no true.

This team has attempted a LOT to improve the defense and they have failed. They have failed in talent evaluation, coaching and player development.

I don't know how much Dick Lebeau had to do with that failure or not. Probably some. But I still put more of it on Colbert and Tomlin and their strange investment to atypical linebackers and defensive lineman non-suited for becoming dominant players in our traditional 3-4 defense.

And even while I agree the film shows some concern, at least the selection of Dupree finally shows a selection of a BIG linebacker.

Del, I wasn't saying that they didn't attempt to draft defensive players. My thought, was that I seriously can't remember them giving Lebeau 6 out of 8 picks; almost an entire draft class. Maybe it's happened, and I'll look it up later. But, it just seems that they are attempting to give Butler some "toys" to get things done when other than LB and DL, Lebeau had to work with pieces from The Island of Misfit Toys. And those pieces he was given did not come in a bunch like this year.

 

[blitzburghv5]

I think the point is that the team has no identity either on offense or defense. When cowher was here we were a power running team and a blitz heavy extremely physical D.
Now our offense is geared to being pass heavy, but it is inconsistent and lacks flow.
I don't even know how to categorize the D. We are not physical / aggressive and we don't have the players to be a finese / scheme defense. I don't know if it's Tomlin or the coordinators fault, but someone needs to take charge.
I think Butler needs to pick what we are going to be and stick with it. If we are going to be an aggressive attacking D then do it and not half *** it or give up if we get burnt. Don't blitz 8 guys and then have 15 yard cushions on the Wrs...

With the emphasis in player safety, teams cant be physical or intimidating anymore..i don't know of any defenses in the league that are extremely physical or intimidating....hard hits are penalized and players are fined. Its a cupcake league now but that's by way of the league...not coaching

As for the old style of smashmouth running, the league evolved on offense. With emphasis placed on illegal contact recently its makes little sense to try and ground and pound when you can get free yardage on illegal contact or PI calls. Its an "offense-at-any-measure" league. They want ball movement and scoring and defense is force to sit, wait and react AFTER the catch. What OC isn't gonna capitalize on that ? Id only run to have balance..**** running it 60% of the time, 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

 

[paperclip]

haven't read every response.

How does James Farrior know what Butler is doing differently on defense? He's not in the locker room, is he?

 

[jitter77]

With the emphasis in player safety, teams cant be physical or intimidating anymore..i don't know of any defenses in the league that are extremely physical or intimidating....hard hits are penalized and players are fined. Its a cupcake league now but that's by way of the league...not coaching

As for the old style of smashmouth running, the league evolved on offense. With emphasis placed on illegal contact recently its makes little sense to try and ground and pound when you can get free yardage on illegal contact or PI calls. Its an "offense-at-any-measure" league. They want ball movement and scoring and defense is force to sit, wait and react AFTER the catch. What OC isn't gonna capitalize on that ? Id only run to have balance..**** running it 60% of the time, 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

There are still physical defenses around like Seattle, balt, san fran, etc, but i get your point.
As for offense, defenses will probably get smaller and faster to counter passing attacks. If a team built an Oline of big maulers and a good rb i think they could be successful.

 

[fogdoctor]

If he gets this D into the top half of the league, there will be a head coaching job for him.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

If he gets this D into the top half of the league, there will be a head coaching job for him.

Probably because that would mean the defense was at least average. Which would indicate a playoff run! :beer:

 

[Wingman]

Probably because that would mean the defense was at least average. Which would indicate a playoff run! :beer:

Hopefully if it materializes it will be more than one game, not sure one and done should count as a run.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Hopefully if it materializes it will be more than one game, not sure one and done should count as a run.

That's why I used the word "run" instead of game my friend.

 

[bermudasteel]

As long as the cross blitz is gone - I'm going to be happy...

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Probably because that would mean the defense was at least average. Which would indicate a playoff run! :beer:

Maybe even win a playoff game!