Ed Bouchette sets Ben hater Fan afternoon show host straight.

[slashsteel]

One of the assumptions many of you are working under is that the discipline will work. It seems to me the Steelers have a TO on their hands, and the sad truth there is no discipline really worked...he always hid behind the fact that he wasn't out breaking laws and doing drugs or beating up women or whatever.

I know I'll get ripped for this, but I really don't give a ****. I admire Tomlin in a way for trying to treat these guys like men, instead of the 14 year olds in a man's body that many of them are. That is his mistake, I guess. The players are the biggest ********...you have a guy willing to allow you some freedom and not be on you like a rash, and you abuse it.

Nobody is assuming a harsher discipline will work but it is a crossroads action that can be considered a last ditch effort. The discipline they gave him was weak sauce. That is like comparing a time out to a belt *** whooping. You don't know if either will work. But you tried the first, now you try the second. And if that doesn't work you show him the door.


It isn't about treating these players like men, it is about controlling your locker room against ongoing drama.

Through all your admiration for a coach you want to hang around, that is a area like it or not he failed in.

BTW I am not ripping you, I simply completely disagree with you.

 

[stillwright]

Nobody is assuming a harsher discipline will work but it is a crossroads action that can be considered a last ditch effort. The discipline they gave him was weak sauce. That is like comparing a time out to a belt *** whooping. You don't know if either will work. But you tried the first, now you try the second. And if that doesn't work you show him the door.


It isn't about treating these players like men, it is about controlling your locker room against ongoing drama.

Through all your admiration for a coach you want to hang around, that is a area like it or not he failed in.

BTW I am not ripping you, I simply completely disagree with you.

He failed in treating grown men as ...well men.

 

[diver]

Nobody is assuming a harsher discipline will work but it is a crossroads action that can be considered a last ditch effort. The discipline they gave him was weak sauce. That is like comparing a time out to a belt *** whooping. You don't know if either will work. But you tried the first, now you try the second. And if that doesn't work you show him the door.


It isn't about treating these players like men, it is about controlling your locker room against ongoing drama.

Through all your admiration for a coach you want to hang around, that is a area like it or not he failed in.

BTW I am not ripping you, I simply completely disagree with you.

I am indifferent to if he stays or goes. I really am. I agree he lacks in things like clock management, challenges, perhaps adjustments (I've always questioned adjustments to some extent...maybe one team just starts playing better and the other team worse), and certainly has rolled out questionable plays in all areas. So if they fire him for all that, that's enough and fine.

It is the over the top stuff I object to. We have no idea what discipline if any has been rendered. I also question what can be done with athletes who have had their ***** sniffed since middle school and are now multi millionaires. I think fans are full of **** when they say suspend him. It's easy now, hell they aren't playing. But what if they were playing today or tomorrow?

 

[slashsteel]

I am indifferent to if he stays or goes. I really am. I agree he lacks in things like clock management, challenges, perhaps adjustments (I've always questioned adjustments to some extent...maybe one team just starts playing better and the other team worse), and certainly has rolled out questionable plays in all areas. So if they fire him for all that, that's enough and fine.

It is the over the top stuff I object to. We have no idea what discipline if any has been rendered. I also question what can be done with athletes who have had their ***** sniffed since middle school and are now multi millionaires. I think fans are full of **** when they say suspend him. It's easy now, hell they aren't playing. But what if they were playing today or tomorrow?

Not easy decisions but necessary decisions. If they would have made those hard stances earlier you wouldn't have to say what if there was a playoff game.

But the coach is soft in his discipline and slow in his decisions, not a good combo.

 

[Vader]

Except you have no idea what happens behind the scenes. Sorry, but you’re making a lot of assumptions and drawing a lot of conclusions based on limited information.


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What assumptions did I make? I listed the things I've observed. Anything that I don't know wouldn't change what I do know. From what I've seen he should be fired.

 

[Vader]

No, you’re right. He doesn’t need to appease
The fan base, and as you can see, neither he nor the Rooney’s are paying you guys much mind with your demands for his head.

My point is that the people who are criticizing his for doing nothing would have complained even more if he sat AB for two games. He’ll, ya’ll couldn’t even handle a fake punt. lol


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Now this is an assumption. You should really learn the difference between observation and assumption. You "assume" that you know how people would act... but you don't "know" that. Your entire post is an assumption.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Tomlin's problem wasn't treating them like men it was in treating them differently. That's one of the worst things you can do as a manager. As soon as you let 1 player get away with something like skipping a meeting, every other player takes note and they feel they are also entitled to miss a meeting.

When that second player gets disciplined for missing a meeting, he's pissed. Even worse, most of they others are also pissed because it proves that some guys get special treatment. It breeds resentment towards the coach for playing favorites and also against the "special" players.

 

[diver]

Not easy decisions but necessary decisions. If they would have made those hard stances earlier you wouldn't have to say what if there was a playoff game.

But the coach is soft in his discipline and slow in his decisions, not a good combo.

I think we are closer in agreement on things than it appears, however, what I bolded you and I just do not know. I am perhaps more negative on many of these players, as I am not convinced any discipline really works. If you are advancing the idea that if harsher discipline would have been rendered they would be in the playoffs...I don't know about that. The discipline you have stated you would be fine with is sitting Brown for a game or multiple ones. There is good chance then they lose those games, meaning no playoffs. Again, I just really do not believe at the end of the day most fans would be accepting of that.

 

[diver]

Tomlin's problem wasn't treating them like men it was in treating them differently. That's one of the worst things you can do as a manager. As soon as you let 1 player get away with something like skipping a meeting, every other player takes note and they feel they are also entitled to miss a meeting.

When that second player gets disciplined for missing a meeting, he's pissed. Even worse, most of they others are also pissed because it proves that some guys get special treatment. It breeds resentment towards the coach for playing favorites and also against the "special" players.

That is not the real world, though, even remotely. Ben Roethlisberger, for example, is a hell of a lot more important that Brian Allen. Are you really going to discipline them the same? Let's extrapolate that out. Allen misses a meeting, you can cut his *** with really no thought. You prepared to cut Ben if the same thing would occur? Or do we go lighter on the discipline for Allen because if someone important does it, in the effort to treat everyone the same, you know you ain't cutting Ben. Now if you go lighter overall on discipline...maybe you have what is going on now.

One of my points in all this, like I said before is...you want to fire Mike Tomlin for on the field stuff, gameplanning, etc., have at it. There is plenty there to can his ***, and I would lose no sleep. But in an effort to really drive home this fire him stuff, I think to many get caught off in the weeds with stuff like discipline, which we really have no proof of and is just conjuncture anyway.

 

[slashsteel]

I think we are closer in agreement on things than it appears, however, what I bolded you and I just do not know. I am perhaps more negative on many of these players, as I am not convinced any discipline really works. If you are advancing the idea that if harsher discipline would have been rendered they would be in the playoffs...I don't know about that. The discipline you have stated you would be fine with is sitting Brown for a game or multiple ones. There is good chance then they lose those games, meaning no playoffs. Again, I just really do not believe at the end of the day most fans would be accepting of that.

I am more about solving the issue over what fans want. If you are at a point you want him cut and you haven't tried suspension. I think you are cutting out the middle ground. Never easy neither is cutting the best WR the Steelers have ever had. I would rather pull all stops to keep him before I knee jerk can his *** or trade him.

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