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Dupree - buy or sell?

Coryea said:
He hasn't been getting better, he's basically been average every year, stayed relatively the same. 4.5 sacks, 4 sacks, 6 sacks, 5.5 sacks. I won't be pissed if we sign him, but you can't blame coaching on one hand, then on the other say he's been getting better every year, that would imply the previous coach was doing his job. Watt had that same coach and has been productive from day 1. I don't put a ton of stock in positional coaches in the NFL. Did Minkah suddenly get coached up in 1 week once he got to Pittsburgh.
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Different skill sets between Watt and Dupree. Even Dupree said the difference now and before is he was previously asked to do certain things he doesn't excel at but now he is being allowed to do the techniques he is good at. It is possible that the techniques he struggled with are techniques that Watt is good with. Watt was also much more NFL ready when he came into the league - his game knowledge was touted as a strength when he came out. Bud was considered a jack of all trades and master of none. Of course, we are all speculating about what occurred and what changed. Reality is he started flashing more last year and is playing darn good football this year.

I don't think the guy will end up HoF and I doubt he will see many PB's given Watt likely to get more love from the voters. But that doesn't mean he isn't good at what he does and he is good in a position that will get lots of demand. I dont' think the question given the bigger picture is buy or sell, but rather what is he going to cost. If he hits FA, he is going to get a fine offer. If he leaves, we pay similar for another FA (if we can find one) who has to learn the ropes of the new system. Or you can try to draft someone and start the learning cycle all over again.
 
If the Steelers can pay Artie Burns big $s to play special teams, they can franchise Dupree next year. Let him walk and they create a hole in the defense with no first round pick to address.
 
thesteelcity said:
We will have roughly $27M in freed cap space to work with next year. Saying that, I'd give him a fair offer. If he likes his players and coaches, he should want to stay. Him and Watt could be special if they can keep up their pace. I wouldn't overpay for him, though.
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Those numbers are incorrect

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Coryea said:
He hasn't been getting better, he's basically been average every year, stayed relatively the same. 4.5 sacks, 4 sacks, 6 sacks, 5.5 sacks. I won't be pissed if we sign him, but you can't blame coaching on one hand, then on the other say he's been getting better every year, that would imply the previous coach was doing his job. Watt had that same coach and has been productive from day 1. I don't put a ton of stock in positional coaches in the NFL. Did Minkah suddenly get coached up in 1 week once he got to Pittsburgh.
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Sack numbers don’t mean ha hasn’t been getting better. He has learned to take better routes to the QB. He was getting pressure last year as well but the difference this year is also a better secondary with better coverage turning pressures into sacks as the y have to wait a bit longer. Again don’t under estimate the coaching change as well as philosophy change. He isn’t dropping back as much and is playing more based in his true skill set. I saw things I liked over the last couple years.


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It's not just a dislike Dupree issue, but how can anyone be confident in giving him 17 million per season???? If you're going to give that kind of money to someone and take on that cap hit risk, the guy better be coming off a few seasons of very good play, or a historical season, Dupree is neither of those. I'd be confident in giving Watt that, but not a one a year wonder.
 
Coryea said:
It's not just a dislike Dupree issue, but how can anyone be confident in giving him 17 million per season???? If you're going to give that kind of money to someone and take on that cap hit risk, the guy better be coming off a few seasons of very good play, or a historical season, Dupree is neither of those. I'd be confident in giving Watt that, but not a one a year wonder.
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I'm all for a 12M per contract for Dupree

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what happens to AB's dead money after this year? That disappears, but doesn't clear up any space?
 
thesteelcity said:
what happens to AB's dead money after this year? That disappears, but doesn't clear up any space?
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It's already accounted for and that's how we could sign Nelson, extend haden, decastro, etc . Those that think there's an Utopia where we have this Defense and Brown and Bell all together if they hadn't started bitching is complete bullshit. We couldn't have afforded our top corners and probably wouldn't have the weapons for minkah either (comp picks to overcome the 1st round loss)

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So here is another thought, save 5M to cut Chick and give it to Dupree. Or let Dupree walk and start the Chic era!


i will show myself out.
 
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thesteelcity said:
what happens to AB's dead money after this year? That disappears, but doesn't clear up any space?
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The money against the cap this year from AB was the remainder of the Signing Bonus. That is normally prorated over the term of the deal but since he quit, the team has to account for the hit all at once. In short, it is accounting for monies already paid to AB. So, yes, monies previously on the books for that prorated bonus and his original base pay is off the books and clear. However, other player contracts increase and we signed other players in the off season...we already started spending those "savings".

Go to the link I sent above - the overthecap one. It is pretty good and you can look at future years by using the tabs at at the top of the chart. Gives you a good idea of what players are chewing up the most. More, you can see what benefits we can get from cuts, etc. Cutting Chick, for example, saves us 5M next year.
 
Hoot said:
The money against the cap this year from AB was the remainder of the Signing Bonus. That is normally prorated over the term of the deal but since he quit, the team has to account for the hit all at once. In short, it is accounting for monies already paid to AB. So, yes, monies previously on the books for that prorated bonus and his original base pay is off the books and clear. However, other player contracts increase and we signed other players in the off season...we already started spending those "savings".

Go to the link I sent above - the overthecap one. It is pretty good and you can look at future years by using the tabs at at the top of the chart. Gives you a good idea of what players are chewing up the most. More, you can see what benefits we can get from cuts, etc. Cutting Chick, for example, saves us 5M next year.
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Cutting chick is a no brainer and even Chick knew it would happen when he put pen to paper, the contract was structured to be low on guarantees and high on the second year cap hit so if cut it would be minimal damage to cap space.

This is why I didn't understand all the bitching from most fans when he was signed, everyone knew he would only see 3 of those 8 millions

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Coryea said:
It's not just a dislike Dupree issue, but how can anyone be confident in giving him 17 million per season???? If you're going to give that kind of money to someone and take on that cap hit risk, the guy better be coming off a few seasons of very good play, or a historical season, Dupree is neither of those. I'd be confident in giving Watt that, but not a one a year wonder.
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I guess the difference in it is I don't see him as a one year wonder. I see him as a player who has always played hard needed time and needed to be used right. Again I thought he did well the last couple of years not great but ok for what they were doing with him. This year he has a real coach(Sorry Joey but you sucked as a coach) and is not being misused. That doesn't make him a one year wonder but it does mean we have had some stupid coaching.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
I guess the difference in it is I don't see him as a one year wonder. I see him as a player who has always played hard needed time and needed to be used right. Again I thought he did well the last couple of years not great but ok for what they were doing with him. This year he has a real coach(Sorry Joey but you sucked as a coach) and is not being misused. That doesn't make him a one year wonder but it does mean we have had some stupid coaching.
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And he played last year with a lingering injury

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You give Bud 17 per, which is going to be roughly what he gets on the open market, what do you give Watt after next season, what do you give Minkah the year after that? You can't keep everyone at top market value. Watt is easily worth that, Minkah appears well on his way to be worth top market value. Already have 20+wrapped up in Haden and Nelson, another 20+ wrapped up in Cam and Tuitt.
much better value in trying to keep Hargrave and Hilton, Hargrave is getting to actually play now that tuitt is out and looks very good playing as a DE in our defense. I'm not 100% sold on bringing Hargrave back, would depend on money, we don't use 3 Dlinemen so he doesn't see the field much when Tuitt is healthy, but he's looking pretty good playing Tuitt's spot, could be very good insurance for Tuitt who is often injured and is scheduled to have the second highest cap hit on the team next year.
 
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Coryea said:
You give Bud 17 per, which is going to be roughly what he gets on the open market, what do you give Watt after next season, what do you give Minkah the year after that? You can't keep everyone at top market value. Watt is easily worth that, Minkah appears well on his way to be worth top market value. Already have 20+wrapped up in Haden and Nelson, another 20+ wrapped up in Cam and Tuitt.
much better value in trying to keep Hargrave and Hilton, Hargrave is getting to actually play now that tuitt is out and looks very good playing as a DE in our defense. I'm not 100% sold on bringing Hargrave back, would depend on money, we don't use 3 Dlinemen so he doesn't see the field much when Tuitt is healthy, but he's looking pretty good playing Tuitt's spot, could be very good insurance for Tuitt who is often injured and is scheduled to have the second highest cap hit on the team next year.
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Assume they don't resign Bud. Is there a pending FA you have in mind or would you address in the draft? Another team's FA (assuming any exist) are likely to cost just as much. Draft is going to reset the learning clock and without a first round pick, you are likely going into next year with Chick as your starting OLB while a new guy learns. Yea, I get Ola is there, but he hasn't yet shown he is the future.
 
Litos said:
This is why I didn't understand all the bitching from most fans when he was signed, everyone knew he would only see 3 of those 8 millions
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Because even $3M is too much for Chick, same for $2M or $1M or even $250k. He is simply taking up space. I saw him out there a bunch against the Rams. How did he do? Two total tackles, one solo. That's it. No QB's pressures or hits, no sacks, no nothing. The guy is the defensive equivalent of Switz on O and ST. Invisible, running in sand, zero impact.
 
Hoot said:
The money against the cap this year from AB was the remainder of the Signing Bonus. That is normally prorated over the term of the deal but since he quit, the team has to account for the hit all at once. In short, it is accounting for monies already paid to AB. So, yes, monies previously on the books for that prorated bonus and his original base pay is off the books and clear. However, other player contracts increase and we signed other players in the off season...we already started spending those "savings".

Go to the link I sent above - the overthecap one. It is pretty good and you can look at future years by using the tabs at at the top of the chart. Gives you a good idea of what players are chewing up the most. More, you can see what benefits we can get from cuts, etc. Cutting Chick, for example, saves us 5M next year.
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i did check it out, thank you! Someone told me that AB's contract frees up cap space in 2020, hence the $27M. So, I assumed they knew what they were talking about.
 
Tibs said:
Because even $3M is too much for Chick, same for $2M or $1M or even $250k. He is simply taking up space. I saw him out there a bunch against the Rams. How did he do? Two total tackles, one solo. That's it. No QB's pressures or hits, no sacks, no nothing. The guy is the defensive equivalent of Switz on O and ST. Invisible, running in sand, zero impact.
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For some reason they love his ST play to pay that much for him. Not that I agree but that's where we are at now, and that being reality all I'm saying is that he is an obvious pending cut

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Wouldn't be surprised if they Franchise tag Bud to keep him 1 more year and draft his eventual replacement. Players like Heyward, Ben, Pouncy, Haden will be coming off the books,
so they can sign JuJu, Minkah, Watt. Even if there is some overlap, they can use signing bonus, to push the bigger cap hits down the road.
 
Hoot said:
Assume they don't resign Bud. Is there a pending FA you have in mind or would you address in the draft? Another team's FA (assuming any exist) are likely to cost just as much. Draft is going to reset the learning clock and without a first round pick, you are likely going into next year with Chick as your starting OLB while a new guy learns. Yea, I get Ola is there, but he hasn't yet shown he is the future.
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Ola hasn't had much chance to play, he'd be in the mix, it's hard to say about FA's because you don't know who will be resigned by their current team and who won't be.

My point is you can't keep all your Free Agents that are going to command top dollar, Dupree is going to command top dollar. I think we can all agree Watt is the better player, does everything better, that's the kind of guy you give top FA dollars to.
 
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