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Dri 2.0

Agree, experience is what keeps the "OLD FARTS" in the picture. I'd take a young / athletically gifted player over an OLD slow veteran, any day. It's the fine line of athletic & experience that one strives for. Good talent evaluation is the key here. Dan Rooney had that talent. He could evaluate talent or he knew someone very good at it. His scout team had to phenomenal as compared to our current staff. I realize the nfl has changed, but his level for that era and current level for current era, night and day different.



Salute the nation
 
PS
................Dri Archer, was a luxury pick at a time we needed non-luxury.




Salute the nation
 
It is too bad the old board got re-booted. I would really like to search out whether posters here argued more about Dri or George Zimmerman.

At least this thread is insightful.
 
Agree, experience is what keeps the "OLD FARTS" in the picture. I'd take a young / athletically gifted player over an OLD slow veteran, any day. It's the fine line of athletic & experience that one strives for. Good talent evaluation is the key here. Dan Rooney had that talent. He could evaluate talent or he knew someone very good at it. His scout team had to phenomenal as compared to our current staff. I realize the nfl has changed, but his level for that era and current level for current era, night and day different.



Salute the nation

The entire Rooney family was involved back then. In addition to the steelers they also had racetracks as well and the folks that had the main holdings in gambling had to relinquish ownership and involvement with the team, I think this happened during the Cowher years. Also previous to the present bunch the scouting department was much better and was one of the few groups that spent much time at the all black or mostly black schools a trend that has changed and resulted in more competition for talent.
 
It is too bad the old board got re-booted. I would really like to search out whether posters here argued more about Dri or George Zimmerman.

At least this thread is insightful.

I really think the archer thread had more arguments and for sure had more valid view points.
 
I really think the archer thread had more arguments and for sure had more valid view points.


ALSO a lot of "keep the thread going" ramblings..........................


Salute the nation
 
ALSO a lot of "keep the thread going" ramblings..........................


Salute the nation
We get those on any thread over 50 pages, it's like the old days when a certain number of posts got you to walley world or something like that, do you remember those?
 
We get those on any thread over 50 pages, it's like the old days when a certain number of posts got you to walley world or something like that, do you remember those?

Oh yea, long but not nessecarily good............. LOL




Salute the nation
 
What really gets to me with the Archer bashers, who more often than not happen to be Tomlin/Colbert bashers, is that they view this pick - and Dri Archer in particular - in a complete vacuum. As if the other rookies that were picked - all of them taller, stronger and heavier than Archer - came in and made immediate contributions to their teams.

Nope, it must have been only puny Dri Archer that didn't come right in and set the league on fire. How stupid of Colbert and Tomlin to draft such an abject failure.

As an exercise in gaining a bit of perspective, let's take a quick look around to see the forest from the trees. Let's see what's going on with some of the other teams that had the wisdom and foresight not to pick Archer, but chose to go in another direction.

The Cardinals were obviously smart enough not to fall for Archer's college highlight tape. They did draft TE Troy Niklas in the second round. Niklas missed nine games to injury, and was nothing more than the third tight end when healthy. Caught three passes all year. Not bad for a second round pick, I guess. At least he's not 5-8 and 173 pounds.

The Bills picked up OG Koujandijo, also in the second round, who played a total of three snaps on special teams and failed to crack an offensive line full of holes. CB Ross Cockrell, who many thought should have been picked before tiny Dri, played in seven games on special teams, had a single tackle all year, and no other discernable stats. Probably wished they did better in the draft, but Bills fans must be relieved at least they don't have Dri Archer on their roster.

The super-sharp Bengals smartly picked up CB Dennard in the first round and DE Will Clarke in the third. And they somehow managed to not pick Dri Archer, good for them. Dennard played 62 defensive snaps all season, same number Clarke had for a struggling pass rush. Dennard had 17 total tackles, a sack and one pass defensed. Clarke played in 7 games, had three tackles for the season. But at least neither of those players are called Dri Archer.

The Browns got the highly sought-after Justin Gilbert, whose performance left a lot to be desired, and of course Johnny Football, both in the first round. But at least they're not the Steelers, throwing away their third round pick on Dri Archer.

Moving on, another team that has their **** together unlike the Steelers, the Cowboys traded up 13 spots for DE Lawrence in the second round, who missed nine games with a broken foot, finished with no starts, no sacks and only nine tackles. Job well done on not picking Dri Archer at the end of the third round.

The Broncos drafted OL Michael Shoefield in the third round, a player much bigger and taller than Dri Archer, who proceeded to not dress for a single game all year.

The Lions went with TE Eric Ebron in the first round, who scored a single TD and never totalled more than 38 yards in a game all year. In the second round they drafted Kyle Van Noy, who had hernia surgery, missed a bunch of games, finished with no sacks and had six tackles. But to the relief of Lions fans, they don't have to deal with having Dri Archer on their roster.

Another team with an FO much smarter than the Steelers, the Packers picked DT Khyti Thortnon in the third round, who underwhelmed in the pre-season, barely made the final roster, before missing the season with a torn hamstring.

The Texans picked OG Su'ao-Fila in the second round and TE Fiedorowicz in the third. Surely better picks than Dri Archer. Su'ao-Fila was mostly on the bench all year, while Fiedorowicz showed zero ball skills, not so rosy for a third round pick.

The Vikings smartly ignored Dri Archer in the third round, and went with DE Scott Crichton instead. Crichton had a total of two tackles the entire year. Now that's a front office we could all be proud of.

The mighty, unfallable Patriots drafted DT Dominique Easley in the first round, who played under a quarter of the snaps and finished the season on IR, which was a pre-draft concern with history of torn knee ligaments. But at least they didn't blow their draft by picking Dri Archer at the end of the third round.

Then you have the Saints, who did what the Steelers should have done and wisely grabbed CB Jean-Baptise in the second round. Jean-Baptiste was active for four games, and played just eight defensive snaps, even as injuries decimated the Saints' secondary. Again, no Dri Archer, no problem.

The Giants - unlike the dumbass Steelers - went the smart route and decided not to pick Dri Archer in the third round. Instead, they drafted DT Jay Bromley, who racked up a grand total of two tackles the entire season. Kudos to the Giants.

Let's sum up the Eagles draft this way: they picked eight defensive players that had zero starts, 293 defensive snaps and 10 tackles total. Their first round pick DE Marcus Smith played 68 defensive snaps all year. He failed to make a single tackle or defense a single pass. But hey, at least he's not stupid little Dri Archer getting picked at the end of the third round.

The Rams went DB early, like the Steelers should have done, and picked CB Lamarcus Joyner in the second round. Joyner spent time at the end of the year as a healthy scratch for the 6-10 Rams. At least he's ten pounds heavier than Dri Archer.

And this is just last year. We could do the same exercise with the draft from two or five, ten, fifteen years ago with the same results.

But no, for some Steelers fans the entire world has come crashing down because we dared draft little 'ol Dri Archer. :jag:
 
What really gets to me with the Archer bashers, who more often than not happen to be Tomlin/Colbert bashers, is that they view this pick - and Dri Archer in particular - in a complete vacuum. As if the other rookies that were picked - all of them taller, stronger and heavier than Archer - came in and made immediate contributions to their teams.

Nope, it must have been only puny Dri Archer that didn't come right in and set the league on fire. How stupid of Colbert and Tomlin to draft such an abject failure.

As an exercise in gaining a bit of perspective, let's take a quick look around to see the forest from the trees. Let's see what's going on with some of the other teams that had the wisdom and foresight not to pick Archer, but chose to go in another direction.

The Cardinals were obviously smart enough not to fall for Archer's college highlight tape. They did draft TE Troy Niklas in the second round. Niklas missed nine games to injury, and was nothing more than the third tight end when healthy. Caught three passes all year. Not bad for a second round pick, I guess. At least he's not 5-8 and 173 pounds.

The Bills picked up OG Koujandijo, also in the second round, who played a total of three snaps on special teams and failed to crack an offensive line full of holes. CB Ross Cockrell, who many thought should have been picked before tiny Dri, played in seven games on special teams, had a single tackle all year, and no other discernable stats. Probably wished they did better in the draft, but Bills fans must be relieved at least they don't have Dri Archer on their roster.

The super-sharp Bengals smartly picked up CB Dennard in the first round and DE Will Clarke in the third. And they somehow managed to not pick Dri Archer, good for them. Dennard played 62 defensive snaps all season, same number Clarke had for a struggling pass rush. Dennard had 17 total tackles, a sack and one pass defensed. Clarke played in 7 games, had three tackles for the season. But at least neither of those players are called Dri Archer.

The Browns got the highly sought-after Justin Gilbert, whose performance left a lot to be desired, and of course Johnny Football, both in the first round. But at least they're not the Steelers, throwing away their third round pick on Dri Archer.

Moving on, another team that has their **** together unlike the Steelers, the Cowboys traded up 13 spots for DE Lawrence in the second round, who missed nine games with a broken foot, finished with no starts, no sacks and only nine tackles. Job well done on not picking Dri Archer at the end of the third round.

The Broncos drafted OL Michael Shoefield in the third round, a player much bigger and taller than Dri Archer, who proceeded to not dress for a single game all year.

The Lions went with TE Eric Ebron in the first round, who scored a single TD and never totalled more than 38 yards in a game all year. In the second round they drafted Kyle Van Noy, who had hernia surgery, missed a bunch of games, finished with no sacks and had six tackles. But to the relief of Lions fans, they don't have to deal with having Dri Archer on their roster.

Another team with an FO much smarter than the Steelers, the Packers picked DT Khyti Thortnon in the third round, who underwhelmed in the pre-season, barely made the final roster, before missing the season with a torn hamstring.

The Texans picked OG Su'ao-Fila in the second round and TE Fiedorowicz in the third. Surely better picks than Dri Archer. Su'ao-Fila was mostly on the bench all year, while Fiedorowicz showed zero ball skills, not so rosy for a third round pick.

The Vikings smartly ignored Dri Archer in the third round, and went with DE Scott Crichton instead. Crichton had a total of two tackles the entire year. Now that's a front office we could all be proud of.

The mighty, unfallable Patriots drafted DT Dominique Easley in the first round, who played under a quarter of the snaps and finished the season on IR, which was a pre-draft concern with history of torn knee ligaments. But at least they didn't blow their draft by picking Dri Archer at the end of the third round.

Then you have the Saints, who did what the Steelers should have done and wisely grabbed CB Jean-Baptise in the second round. Jean-Baptiste was active for four games, and played just eight defensive snaps, even as injuries decimated the Saints' secondary. Again, no Dri Archer, no problem.

The Giants - unlike the dumbass Steelers - went the smart route and decided not to pick Dri Archer in the third round. Instead, they drafted DT Jay Bromley, who racked up a grand total of two tackles the entire season. Kudos to the Giants.

Let's sum up the Eagles draft this way: they picked eight defensive players that had zero starts, 293 defensive snaps and 10 tackles total. Their first round pick DE Marcus Smith played 68 defensive snaps all year. He failed to make a single tackle or defense a single pass. But hey, at least he's not stupid little Dri Archer getting picked at the end of the third round.

The Rams went DB early, like the Steelers should have done, and picked CB Lamarcus Joyner in the second round. Joyner spent time at the end of the year as a healthy scratch for the 6-10 Rams. At least he's ten pounds heavier than Dri Archer.

And this is just last year. We could do the same exercise with the draft from two or five, ten, fifteen years ago with the same results.

But no, for some Steelers fans the entire world has come crashing down because we dared draft little 'ol Dri Archer. :jag:

Congrats on writing up a thesis' worth of info about teams from the other 31 that no one gives a toss about. The other teams drafted blah-zay blah 3rd rd picks? Good. Lets not, if we can help it.
 
Congrats on writing up a thesis' worth of info about teams from the other 31 that no one gives a toss about. The other teams drafted blah-zay blah 3rd rd picks? Good. Lets not, if we can help it.

Yea, you can always find teams that drafted bad players through out the draft. That doesn't make Archer a better pick. It just means other teams picked players that didn't work out. Using that as a baseline means that all draft picks the Steelers make is great because team X drafted a player that didn't work out.
 
I'm almost certain there was a player picked after Dri was picked that we absolutely would have picked had Dri not bee on the board.

you know, since our FO is draft-smart.
 
Does other teams drafting prototypical athletes in the early rounds have anything to do with the Steelers wasting a premium pick on a small player that has no real position in the NFL and who is a poor returner to boot ? Would rather hit and miss with a player that has the physical size and skills to succeed in the NFL instead of a midget who is an outlier in terms of physical size and who has never played at a hogh level and was a major reach.
 
Congrats on writing up a thesis' worth of info about teams from the other 31 that no one gives a toss about. The other teams drafted blah-zay blah 3rd rd picks? Good. Lets not, if we can help it.

I think what he is saying is there's a lot higher picks who had just as bad if not worst rookie seasons as our comp 3rd round pick. At this point I just want Archer to have a good season to shut up all the haters and want to be draft guru's who would have picked... someone who.... might have eventually been a better player.
 
I think what he is saying is there's a lot higher picks who had just as bad if not worst rookie seasons as our comp 3rd round pick. At this point I just want Archer to have a good season to shut up all the haters and want to be draft guru's who would have picked... someone who.... might have eventually been a better player.

You could say the same thing about every player every drafted by every team. So what? It has nothing to do with the Steelers drafting Archer or anyone else for that matter. Hey the Chargers didn't make a mistake by taking Ryan Leaf because other teams screwed up as well that draft right?

This is typically what happens when people defend every thing the Steelers do. They can't stand when people have legitimate concerns over a draft pick so instead of talking about the Steelers draft and their issues they go global and start talking about everything under the sun to deflect from it.
 
At this point I just want Archer to have a good season to shut up all the haters and want to be draft guru's
Yes, that will be a day to rejoice, indeed. There may even be a public flogging scheduled in downtown Pittsburgh for all the Archer haters.
 
You could say the same thing about every player every drafted by every team. So what? It has nothing to do with the Steelers drafting Archer or anyone else for that matter. Hey the Chargers didn't make a mistake by taking Ryan Leaf because other teams screwed up as well that draft right?

How does this make any sense? Ryan Leaf was the second overall pick and Dri Archer was the 97th overall pick.

I understand the argument and to a degree can agree with it. Archer is a luxury pick that at best will cut out a niche in the offense and maybe be a return man and to some that is a wasted pick because we should have went for a starter. Ok, I understand that argument and I do see some merit to the concerns. But he was a 97th overall pick and after him there really hasn't been to this point anyone who did much better. I would say Martavis Bryant who we drafted, and TJ Carrie are the guys I can think of off the top of my head. Carrie was passed on us several times even when we drafted Shaq Richardson CB Arizona who Carnell Lake wanted and didn't even make the PS I don't hear anyone calling out that pick. Archer made the team at least.
 
FordFairLane you may as well be talking to a brick wall. What you're saying will not get through, I guarantee it. We've regurgitated all the same points for over a year now, there's nothing you can say or do to change the Archer haters' minds. They are convinced Archer was a terrible pick & a lost cause, are not interested in what he can do this year, nor will they ever let it go and find something else to gripe about. The Archer pick is like Linus' blanket, it's always there to provide care and comfort to those that need something to hold onto.
 
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You could say the same thing about every player every drafted by every team. So what? It has nothing to do with the Steelers drafting Archer or anyone else for that matter. Hey the Chargers didn't make a mistake by taking Ryan Leaf because other teams screwed up as well that draft right?

This is typically what happens when people defend every thing the Steelers do. They can't stand when people have legitimate concerns over a draft pick so instead of talking about the Steelers draft and their issues they go global and start talking about everything under the sun to deflect from it.

well, no. that's not a fair argument, as the Chargers took Leaf 2nd overall. not second in the 2nd round nor even 2nd in the third or later rounds.
and, Leaf had a lot of intangibles at the time.

but, surely even you understand that comparison isn't valid, as there's no way Leaf would have made it to the comp pick in the third round.

Dri, as Tibs and others have pointed out, has some ability. He's FAR from the first rookie to not win Super Bowl MVP honors and shake the President's hand. He's also far from the first rookie to wash out before the season even started.

Now, to be fair, nearly 99% of the people on the board share your very concerns about Dri's size. But, instead of harping on what Dri can't do (grow taller), those focus on what he can do - run fast as hell - and how that might benefit our team. It's called taking an optimistic approach. You seem like a bitter ******, with your constant bitching and wailing. Try being optimistic once in awhile.
 
Try being optimistic once in awhile.

74495-bill-murray-smile-frown-gif-WJz1.gif
 
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Archer is a luxury pick that at best will cut out a niche in the offense and maybe be a return man and to some that is a wasted pick because we should have went for a starter. Ok, I understand that argument and I do see some merit to the concerns. But he was a 97th overall pick and after him there really hasn't been to this point anyone who did much better. I would say Martavis Bryant who we drafted, and TJ Carrie are the guys I can think of off the top of my head. Carrie was passed on us several times even when we drafted Shaq Richardson CB Arizona who Carnell Lake wanted and didn't even make the PS I don't hear anyone calling out that pick. Archer made the team at least.

That is just it, to me. Call him a luxury pick or what-not, if you want, but the people to compare him to are those drafted thereafter. To be reasonable, it ought to even be those within a few picks of him. In addition, whoever you are comparing him to ought to have been someone you said should have been picked at the time.I

f you need a CB at that point and the best CB is a 5th round grade, do you take the CB or the "luxury" pick. You can't trade comp picks, so you are stuck with that decision. After three years or so, take a look at where those people are and what they have accomplished. I, probably, would have picked a great many other positions than RB at that point. I'm not going to care enough to ***** about it, though, nor do I consider them stupid for doing so. Might it have been a guard instead of a RB? Who was the "smart" pick? There were two or three CB's picked right after that I would rather have taken.

Are the people picked with 5 or so slots after doing better? Only one that I know of and that is Breeland (that the right name?)

He was the 97th pick, so I am also not hung up on the "it was a third round pick!!!". You can't compare him to 2nd rounders or, I don't believe, even to those drafted "early" in the third. #65 and #100 were both 3rd round picks. Should they be considered equivalent players? Of course, not.
 
This is a never ending saga of the "can not's" VS the 'can so's". I think there are some of us that are still hoping to seal a deal for the "about time" side. Maybe he can and was just used wrong, maybe he can but just doesn't 'get it' yet and just maybe he won't ever...we'll see.
I see by this article that somebody thinks he can, so maybe there is some hope after all.

That world-class speed ultimately was the reason the Steelers used their third-round pick on the diminutive all-purpose back a season ago.

Coincidentally, it also was one of the factors that contributed to Archer's disappointing rookie season, at least when it came to what he did best at Kent State: return kickoffs.

Archer, it turned out, was too fast. Now he is taking time before and after organized team activities with special teams coach Danny Smith to slow down.

“It was more about me running instead of reading (last year),” Archer said. “I was supposed to set stuff up, but I was just out there running. There is more to it that just running fast.”
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/tribunereviewsteelers/~3/o8w0lg4iQyg/archer-season-running
 
Interesting thing, the long post by tibs earlier. As I read through his list of players that contributed something to their team and were injured by things like a broken foot etc. They contributed. One guy was listed at best as the third tight end on his team. Interestingly enough most all of those guys seem to have done more than archer did his rookie year. Even when Archer was the third running back on the team it was a position he was not able to hold onto as the team promoted a guy from the practice squad and grabbed a free agent who is no longer with the team.

I did not like the pick and would have passed on him to pick someone else, which may have been better or worse. I think his size alone is enough to keep him from being successful. I do not hate Dri Archer he is very likely a very nice young man. I just think he is to small for the nfl and that he has no real position. Maybe the coaches will be able to develop him into something useful from a player stand point that remains to be seen. I hope he is a successful player at this point but I am not expecting it to happen. It would be nice if he can make some of the big plays he made in college but it is doubtful at the nfl level because the defenders are all much bigger and faster than what he played against in college and better coached.
 
Interesting thing, the long post by tibs earlier. As I read through his list of players that contributed something to their team and were injured by things like a broken foot etc. They contributed. One guy was listed at best as the third tight end on his team. Interestingly enough most all of those guys seem to have done more than archer did his rookie year. Even when Archer was the third running back on the team it was a position he was not able to hold onto as the team promoted a guy from the practice squad and grabbed a free agent who is no longer with the team.

I did not like the pick and would have passed on him to pick someone else, which may have been better or worse. I think his size alone is enough to keep him from being successful. I do not hate Dri Archer he is very likely a very nice young man. I just think he is to small for the nfl and that he has no real position. Maybe the coaches will be able to develop him into something useful from a player stand point that remains to be seen. I hope he is a successful player at this point but I am not expecting it to happen. It would be nice if he can make some of the big plays he made in college but it is doubtful at the nfl level because the defenders are all much bigger and faster than what he played against in college and better coached.

You can't reason with them. It's like hitting your head against a brick wall. All they know is that Archer was drafted by the Steelers so that makes it a good pick. When they can't back anything up they turn to "But but but team X drafted player X in X round that didn't do as well". That's all they got.
 
How does this make any sense? Ryan Leaf was the second overall pick and Dri Archer was the 97th overall pick.

I understand the argument and to a degree can agree with it. Archer is a luxury pick that at best will cut out a niche in the offense and maybe be a return man and to some that is a wasted pick because we should have went for a starter. Ok, I understand that argument and I do see some merit to the concerns. But he was a 97th overall pick and after him there really hasn't been to this point anyone who did much better. I would say Martavis Bryant who we drafted, and TJ Carrie are the guys I can think of off the top of my head. Carrie was passed on us several times even when we drafted Shaq Richardson CB Arizona who Carnell Lake wanted and didn't even make the PS I don't hear anyone calling out that pick. Archer made the team at least.

The reason you don't hear anyone calling the Richardson pick bad is because he was a 5th rounder and very few of them make it. Also Richardson wasn't small, injury prone and lacking a real NFL position. The reason I used Leaf is because you can always go back and say X was a bad pick but X was taken in a different round and he sucked so that means the Steelers didn't screw anything up. It's what is prevailing on this board. Hell not long ago the issue was "Well let's say Bryant was drafted in round 3 and Archer was taken in the 4th". Again nobody can defend the pick so they try to change the subject and obfuscate because they have no real argument.

When was the last time they cut a 3rd round pick before his first season? Ever? Hell Curtis Brown played 3 years and never did anything. That's why 3rd round picks are valuable.
 
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