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DRAFT: What is your definition of a reach? And when is a reach NOT a reach?

SteveA

SteveA

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With the draft around the corner, we are gonna hear this phrase used over & over. I'm gonna give only 1 thought for each question and let the games begin

I just feel like starting some stuff so here goes my 1 thought...I'm sure past drafts will come up here (hehehehe)

Reach definition: A player who is picked earlier in the draft earlier than expected & beyond their draft grade

When is a reach NOT a reach? When a team drafts a player earlier than expected or graded because you know that player WILL NOT BE AROUND when you pick again.....
 
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SteveA said:
With the draft around the corner, we are gonna hear this phrase used over & over. I'm gonna give only 1 thought for each question and let the games begin

I just feel like starting some stuff so here goes my 1 thought...I'm sure past drafts will come up here (hehehehe)

Reach definition: A player who is picked earlier in the draft earlier than expected & beyond their draft grade

When is a reach NOT a reach? When draft a player earlier than expected or graded because you know that player WILL NOT BE AROUND when you pick again.....
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There are no reaches, only percieved reaches. With 32 teams having widely varying opinions on players and all of them being wrong most of the time, who’s to say no other team would take a given player with the same pick? You would have to have each team prioritize their favorite 250 prospects (or whatever) and turn it in before the draft to determine what was, and wasn’t, a reach.
 
In general, I agree with Trog on this. Last year has a couple of perfect examples.

Two safeties who were expected to go in the 1st round went in the 3rd. One had a good first season, one didn't. For the one that turned out to have a good season (note that is different than being "good"), would it have been a reach to take him in the 1st? While they seemed like 1st round or, at worst, early second round locks by all of us yahoos with keybords, 32 teams must have had them with 3rd rounder grades. It'd be interesting to know why.

A couple/three years ago there was a first round DL lock that fell to us in the first that everyone was screaming about us passing over. All 32 teams passed, in the first, second and, I think, third. Turns out there was some unreported knee issues that none of us knew about.

There could be dozens of reasons teams have a player on or off of their board.

In any event, I perceive a reach to be a guy who I don't think would have been chosen in the next 10ish picks. I wouldn't expect that player to be around at your next pick, unless you trade up or have an earlier pick than the next 32. However, it seems to me that there were, probably, better options available, even if they don't fit the position your pick did.

For example. Player A is an ILB and we take him at 1.20. However, I think he falls in the mid-2nd round kind of talent, even though unlikely to fall to 2.20. That is, IMO, a reach. I'd guess there almost has to be another position of need you could have filled with that pick. As Trog says, it is, really, a perceived reach is that, out of 32 teams, several may have had the guy pegged at 1.20-1.30 range.
 
The definition of “reach” itself is an oxymoron. As the only factual evidence to determine a reach would require having knowledge of all team boards of players after the draft concluded.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
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I would say that everyone that says there is no such thing as a reach has at one time or another on this board said that X player was a reach. Even if it were for another team. It's the same thing as many on here saying a few years ago that Archer wasn't a reach because all drafted players could fail. But again many of those same people blasted the clowns last year for not getting Barkley.

Fact is there are tons of reaches in the draft over the years.
 
It's almost impossible to tell, without having the teams draft board in front of you. Burns might look like a reach, but the Steelers may have had him graded out as a first round guy.
 
Vader said:
I would say that everyone that says there is no such thing as a reach has at one time or another on this board said that X player was a reach. Even if it were for another team. It's the same thing as many on here saying a few years ago that Archer wasn't a reach because all drafted players could fail. But again many of those same people blasted the clowns last year for not getting Barkley.

Fact is there are tons of reaches in the draft over the years.
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Two notable “reaches” were DHB and Mike Mitchell, both by the Raiders, both later ended up with the Steelers. So for all you know, the Steelers might have coveted those guys in the draft and would have picked them before the Raiders picked again.

It only takes one of the other 32 teams to also like the player as much as the team picking for it not to be an actual reach.
 
Cooch said:
my definitions of those is fluid and changes from game to game
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no ****.
 
Didn’t someone talk Noll out of drafting Stallworth in the 1st round instead of Swann? Given he lasted until the 4th round, in hindsight, that would have been a reach.
 
Troglodyte said:
Didn’t someone talk Noll out of drafting Stallworth in the 1st round instead of Swann? Given he lasted until the 4th round, in hindsight, that would have been a reach.
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the way I understand it, the Steelers kept the game film on Stallworth and didn't share it around the league like they were supposed to. Hardly anyone had seen him play like they had seen Swann. If his film was as readily available as it is now, there is no way Stallworth makes it out of the first round. Much less fall to the 4th.
 
To me a reach comes out of a positional need. So the need causes the team to reach for a player that they themselves don't grade that high. The Steelers could use a #2 receiver, a MLB, a Corner for sure. They also have lesser needs at OLB, DL TE and some say safety. .Absolutely no reason to take anyone who is not the BPA at one of those positions. I think someone like Edmunds last year might have been a reach, though they had two legit players at safety in Burnett and Davis. I think that might have been a reach, but perhaps they just had him that high.
 
CoolieMan said:
the way I understand it, the Steelers kept the game film on Stallworth and didn't share it around the league like they were supposed to. Hardly anyone had seen him play like they had seen Swann. If his film was as readily available as it is now, there is no way Stallworth makes it out of the first round. Much less fall to the 4th.
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Yep, that's a big part of what happened. Apparently, the Steelers saw the single tape for Stallworth, and it was so good that the Steelers "forgot" to return the tape and allow other teams to view it. I also read years ago about another factor in the drafting of Stallworth. It seems that Stallworth ran the 40 for BLESTO (Browns, Lions, Eagles, Steelers Talent Organization) on a wet track and had a very disappointing time. The Steelers scout, Bill Nunn, thought that something was up and stayed at the site after the other scouts left. Nunn asked Stallworth to run the 40 the next day on a dry track. He did so, and his time was much improved.

Stallworth was meant to be a Steeler. Bill Nunn played a big role in making it happen.
 
A reach happens when a player is drafted 1-2 rounds ahead of where most thought he should go.

It’s mostly confined to the early rounds.

For example most felt EDMUNDS was a reach. The Steelers picked him in round one.

Players picked in round 2 and 3 at the same position were better as rookies.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Steeltime said:
Yep, that's a big part of what happened. Apparently, the Steelers saw the single tape for Stallworth, and it was so good that the Steelers "forgot" to return the tape and allow other teams to view it. I also read years ago about another factor in the drafting of Stallworth. It seems that Stallworth ran the 40 for BLESTO (Browns, Lions, Eagles, Steelers Talent Organization) on a wet track and had a very disappointing time. The Steelers scout, Bill Nunn, thought that something was up and stayed at the site after the other scouts left. Nunn asked Stallworth to run the 40 the next day on a dry track. He did so, and his time was much improved.

Stallworth was meant to be a Steeler. Bill Nunn played a big role in making it happen.
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i think i read somewhere that at the Senior Bowl they had Stallworth line up as a CB instead of WR so he did not even get to flash his talent there......God wanted him in Black and Gold
 
most players, even first rounders are not drafted for what they will do as rookies...they are drafted on what teams expect them to do over the course of their careers
 
Evaluate each player in the draft and rate them on your big board with a value that details where you are comfortable in drafting them regardless of what other teams may be doing.
Realize you draft at the 20 position and that you have a multitude of picks in this years draft.
Assess the depth of talent for each position eg MLB Devin White and Devin Bush may be rated in top 15 of 1st round and say Mack Wilson late in the 2nd rd
As the draft transpires and one of the Devins is still available at spot 16 I would not consider it a reach to move up 4 spots to obtain them since I value them as a top 15 or better selection If both Devins are gone early and my pick is up at 20 I would definitely consider it a reach to select another MLB just because it may be the number one need on the team. Take the BPA or field options to move down if you feel the draft has an abundance of depth.

I did a mock the other night in which the Devins were outside of my comfort zone to move up and get one of them. It was tempting to pick a DT or one of the TEs but I moved back 2 positions and picked up another 2nd rounder. When I got to spot 22 I re evaluated and determined that there were no must haves again so I moved back once again to 31 picking up a couple more late 2nd rounders and a 3rd pick. Once I identified where my starting point needed to be early in the 2nd round I combined some of that draft equity and moved back up. I determined that having a late first round pick was not crucial, opposed to an early 2nd round providing greater equity. I had a slew of picks in the late 2nd and early 3rd rounds. I addressed WR, CB/S early and TE, MLB DE DT late in the 2nd and used the 3rd rounder OT. 4th rd RB. The rest of the 3rd and 4th picks were combined with a late round 6th or 7th whenever I felt I needed to target a certain player that was becoming available a few spots away from where I was designated to select.
Is this a lot of work? -- hell yes and it depends on selecting BPA available when you are on the clock and make realistic movements to attain what you feel is the best value for your team.
Basically I thought this draft had great depth in certain areas and I wanted to take advantage of the quality in rnds 2,3 and 4 I acquired 7 picks in the top 92
and almost every pick was from large programs where the quality of competition is superior. Only one or two picks came from a small programs.
 
I tought as per rankings and mocks that we would take ronnie harrison and edmunds was more projexted tgo go where where he went earl- mid rnd 2. looks like we made the right call, edmunds looks like a excellent jack of sll trades SS, CF. box LB
 
Shane Falco said:
Jarvis Jones- reach
Troy Polamalu- not a reach
Dri Archer- never used properly
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Jarvis was slated to go higher, hard to label him a reach. Do not confuse reach with bust. They aren't necessarily the same.

Coolie said it best, if you are not taking your boards BPA, you are reaching, and you re reaching for need.

Matters not what draftniks think about the topic, we aren't there looking at teams boards.

I want to semi agree with Burns being a reach as I feel they strongly wanted a corner, and their corner they liked supposedly was just picked.

Only thing standing in the way of him being a reach is a confirmation.

But it sure looked and smelled the part.
 
center Travis Frederick Was considered a huge reach when drafted by the cowboys.
Turns into a pro bowl player.
Dallas thought he was a top 20 player while every website and tv show had him as
A 3rd to 5th grade on him.
Eye of the beholder
 
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