Today is going to be really interesting.
Draft 2017 - deljzc
- Thread starter deljzc
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Today is going to be really interesting.
Yea, I know that. But quit reacting emotionally and see what I am saying. Since 1992 the Packers have had 2 of the best qbs in the NFL. That's what, 25 years of great QBs? Only 2 championships to show for it. One would think with the way everyone uses the Favre-Rodgers example that they would have a whole bunch. It is about winning SBs isn't it? Is it worth then drafting guy who very well may not help for 3 years in the first round at the expense of getting a talent that may help the team win now with the franchise guy they know they have?
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well rodgers gives them a shot every year and that's worth the wait, but none of these guys are aaron rodgers so why draft any now?
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Aaron Rogers was not Aaron Rogers when he came out of college. There was a lot of concerns with his game coming out of the Cal program with Jeff Tedford. He was by no means a "lock" of a prospect and had potential warts.
He got better. The best prospects and the most successful all become better than their college film (except maybe running backs, those guys in college just are amazing some times). They learn and improve.
He got better. The best prospects and the most successful all become better than their college film (except maybe running backs, those guys in college just are amazing some times). They learn and improve.
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That is a good point. If he had been such a lock he would not have dropped as far as he did.
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still, do you trust any of these QBs to become a franchise QB? what are the odds?
I don't know how any fan could want a QB with a team that has been so close to going to the SB. I know U usually don't draft for the here and now, butttttttttt with a QB class that isn't considered strong. Why push the envelope in that direction?
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This is probably moot since the only guy I like in round 1 is Trabinsky and all signs now are he isn't making it out of the top-10.
If that happens, I don't want to touch a QB on Thursday/Friday. I really don't and would be awfully disappointed and (maybe) pissed off if we force someone. Let Arians and O'Brien and Reid try to fix the fundamentals on Mahomes, Kizer and Davis. I want no part of that.
If that happens, I don't want to touch a QB on Thursday/Friday. I really don't and would be awfully disappointed and (maybe) pissed off if we force someone. Let Arians and O'Brien and Reid try to fix the fundamentals on Mahomes, Kizer and Davis. I want no part of that.
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I haven't seen anyone mention sidney jones. I mean he was a potential top 10 pick and maybe the best cb in the draft before injury. His medical report looked as good as it could and maybe back in August. I know the Steelers need help now, but he could possibly play. I am not sure if he is worth a first round pick, but i would definitely grab him in the second if he is still there. Even if he can't play and golson can you would basically be swapping golson for a top 10 pick
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Great point
This is a great point that I think people miss all the time when they talk about QB's. Rodgers is a great example. Damn near every single Jeff Tedford coached QB that went to the NFL were straight GARBAGE in the league. In fact one can argue that Rodgers is the only one that worked out. Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, David Carr, and Kyle Boller were all first round picks that came from Tedford coached teams/systems. Teams were legitimately skeptical about whether Rodgers could translate to the NFL given the dismal success of the QB's on that list. If you go back and watch film of Rodgers at Cal his release was robotic and he could have very well ended up having a shaky career if he had gone to a team that didn't have a strong coaching structure in place. Mike McCarthy really helped Rodgers develop into what he is today. The talent was there no question but he was able to come along slowly and really reach his full potential because of where he was drafted.
This is a great point that I think people miss all the time when they talk about QB's. Rodgers is a great example. Damn near every single Jeff Tedford coached QB that went to the NFL were straight GARBAGE in the league. In fact one can argue that Rodgers is the only one that worked out. Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, David Carr, and Kyle Boller were all first round picks that came from Tedford coached teams/systems. Teams were legitimately skeptical about whether Rodgers could translate to the NFL given the dismal success of the QB's on that list. If you go back and watch film of Rodgers at Cal his release was robotic and he could have very well ended up having a shaky career if he had gone to a team that didn't have a strong coaching structure in place. Mike McCarthy really helped Rodgers develop into what he is today. The talent was there no question but he was able to come along slowly and really reach his full potential because of where he was drafted.
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He suffered a serious Achilles injury. He will probably give nothing to the team that drafts him in 2017. Don't fall for a bunch of nonsense his agent is leaking about him being ready to play anytime soon.
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I'm with Del that the only one I think might would be Trubinski.
We're not taking a QB in round one. I actually think there will be a run on second/third tier QBs in the 2nd round and early 3rd and we won't even be able to take Dobbs in the 3rd. Wouldn't be shocked if we skip QB entirely.
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Not for a first round pick. Absolutely not. This QB class reminds me of 2011 if you take out Cam Newton who was pretty much can't miss. But after that? Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder were all drafted in the top 15. WTF. None of those guys seemed like first round picks to me but desperate gonna desperate in the NFL. Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, and Ryan Mallet were drafted later a round or two later which is much better value if you're not taking a sure fire talent. No way in hell would I waste a first round pick on any of these QB's this year.
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His ortho specialist (world renowned Dr. Andrews) just released his latest report (which is actually his medical record report and classified as HIPAA confidential-no one is allowed to see except for the patient and medical staff plus insurance) for Jones to provide to every team. His recovery has been excellent, as of early April his return to full release was listed in late August early September. So he would be available during this season
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Okay... HERE IS THE FINAL BIG BOARD:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18AZmh4rKqUq78ogIKdfgdt_IJIp1HuMZK5XGkiWFZX0/edit?usp=sharing
I have updated Steelers Specific Big Board. I have my own 3-round mock draft (tell me if there is a specific team you really don't like because I think I nailed talent/need pretty well).
My mock has us taking Takk McKinley, Josh Jones, George Kittle and Howard Wilson.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18AZmh4rKqUq78ogIKdfgdt_IJIp1HuMZK5XGkiWFZX0/edit?usp=sharing
I have updated Steelers Specific Big Board. I have my own 3-round mock draft (tell me if there is a specific team you really don't like because I think I nailed talent/need pretty well).
My mock has us taking Takk McKinley, Josh Jones, George Kittle and Howard Wilson.
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So based on this where do you take him or how high is too hgih in your opinion
Injured prospects always have glowing reports from doctors regarding their super fast recovery. Willis McGahee was supposed to be ready to play as a rookie too. I don't buy it. Let's see how far he drops...that will tell you how much NFL teams are buying it.
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Al, the released document isn't just some sunshine letter by an agent. Medical reports (or treatment records) are legal documents and confidential. They are not vague or ambiguous as they detail a physician's medical opinion and are considered professionally accountable on record, and usable in court (malpractice, evidence, etc.) So an MD will give the cold hard facts. Reason for 2nd and 3rd opinions. No different than an engineer signing off on structure blueprints. They are ACCOUNTABLE. Andrews is well known and he tells it as it is.
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Also IIRC, McGahee wasn't expected to be ready until the year AFTER he was drafted. His injury was catastrophic because they feared perineal nerve damage
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I've warmed up to the idea of drafting Sidney Jones in the 2nd - or maaaaybe even the 3rd, if he drops that far. The kid was a top 3 CB heading into this draft, and if Dr. Andrews' prognosis is legitimate, he could be the steal of the draft. More importantly, he'd give us another bluechip outside corner to pair with Artie for years to come. I still think there's a chance someone picks him tonight. But if he lingers on the board....and we don't go CB in the first....he may very well be worth the percieved risk.
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That was (as always) a very entertaining and interesting first round. Remind me next year to NEVER do a mock draft. What a waste of time...lol. The only thing I might like to do after tonight and in the future is compare the players I drafted for a team vs. what they really drafted and see who ends up with more value. But that might take 4-5 years before you can compare.
So here are my thoughts on Watt.
First, I have never been as big a Watt fan as many here. I like him, but I don't REALLY like him. In many ways, my opinion of him is very similar to Artie Burns from last year. I liked Burns. I had nice things to say about him in my film review. But I did not rank him (or Watt) as 1st round talents. He is a safe choice (like Burns) with little chance to bust out or even drastically underperform like Jarvis Jones or similar.
On my Steelers specific Big Board, I had Rueben Foster, Malik McDowell, Carl Lawson and Budda Baker ahead of him. As much as I like McDowell, I guess I'm wrong on him somewhere and that's not a position of need (I mentioned that previously in the thread that he would be a tough call if available).
So that leaves us with Foster vs. Lawson vs. Baker vs. Watt and we choose Watt. Something is up with Foster obviously as well, but whatever if was didn't scare away San Francisco with pick #31. It will be hard for me in my "what I would have done" to pass on Foster. For all my defense of Peppers in our defense as an ILB, Foster is actually probably better in that roll on film. And the thought of Shazier and Foster next to each other would be awfully tempting. But let's assume the Steelers did their work and he was off their board.
So we are left with the remaining 1st round guys I had (in my order):
Lawson vs. Baker vs. Watt vs. Awuzie vs. Melifonwu
It's really not a stretch at all with who we picked. My film study like Lawson better but it's not that far off. Lawson is more tightly wound as an athlete but Watt is probably much more versatile. The added height and ability to play passing lanes is a big plus. I would expect Watt to possibly even be used as a red zone tight end. Watt also is another example of size in our linebacker core (which I have traditionally liked). He easily could grow into his frame to 260 lbs. and when paired with our front-3 and Bud Dupree on the opposite side certainly brings back a little size/length to the position (we went through the Woodley, Harrison, Worilds, Chris Carter, Jones era that are all under 6'2").
All that said, I'm not sure Watt is going to fix the trend of no one with 10+ sacks on this team since 2010. From a pure "getting to the QB" perspective, I think Lawson is better at that. I think Lawson will have more sacks during his rookie contract than Watt (fit will matter and I don't know where Lawson will end up obviously). Lawson might have seasons he "peaks" in the 10-12 sack range. I see Watt as more of an 6-8 sack type guy that will be extremely versatile, bat down passes, have more tackles for loss, etc.
So I guess overall, I'm okay with it. I might always second guess it a bit, but at least the Steelers got a guy off my 1st round board for them (#25 overall). They didn't go WAY off the reservation and pick Jordan Willis or get some random CB like Kevin King or something.
So here are my thoughts on Watt.
First, I have never been as big a Watt fan as many here. I like him, but I don't REALLY like him. In many ways, my opinion of him is very similar to Artie Burns from last year. I liked Burns. I had nice things to say about him in my film review. But I did not rank him (or Watt) as 1st round talents. He is a safe choice (like Burns) with little chance to bust out or even drastically underperform like Jarvis Jones or similar.
On my Steelers specific Big Board, I had Rueben Foster, Malik McDowell, Carl Lawson and Budda Baker ahead of him. As much as I like McDowell, I guess I'm wrong on him somewhere and that's not a position of need (I mentioned that previously in the thread that he would be a tough call if available).
So that leaves us with Foster vs. Lawson vs. Baker vs. Watt and we choose Watt. Something is up with Foster obviously as well, but whatever if was didn't scare away San Francisco with pick #31. It will be hard for me in my "what I would have done" to pass on Foster. For all my defense of Peppers in our defense as an ILB, Foster is actually probably better in that roll on film. And the thought of Shazier and Foster next to each other would be awfully tempting. But let's assume the Steelers did their work and he was off their board.
So we are left with the remaining 1st round guys I had (in my order):
Lawson vs. Baker vs. Watt vs. Awuzie vs. Melifonwu
It's really not a stretch at all with who we picked. My film study like Lawson better but it's not that far off. Lawson is more tightly wound as an athlete but Watt is probably much more versatile. The added height and ability to play passing lanes is a big plus. I would expect Watt to possibly even be used as a red zone tight end. Watt also is another example of size in our linebacker core (which I have traditionally liked). He easily could grow into his frame to 260 lbs. and when paired with our front-3 and Bud Dupree on the opposite side certainly brings back a little size/length to the position (we went through the Woodley, Harrison, Worilds, Chris Carter, Jones era that are all under 6'2").
All that said, I'm not sure Watt is going to fix the trend of no one with 10+ sacks on this team since 2010. From a pure "getting to the QB" perspective, I think Lawson is better at that. I think Lawson will have more sacks during his rookie contract than Watt (fit will matter and I don't know where Lawson will end up obviously). Lawson might have seasons he "peaks" in the 10-12 sack range. I see Watt as more of an 6-8 sack type guy that will be extremely versatile, bat down passes, have more tackles for loss, etc.
So I guess overall, I'm okay with it. I might always second guess it a bit, but at least the Steelers got a guy off my 1st round board for them (#25 overall). They didn't go WAY off the reservation and pick Jordan Willis or get some random CB like Kevin King or something.
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I 100% agree with you, Del.
Nothing jumped off the screen when I watched his highlight reels. I just didnt see 1.) An athletic freak or 2.) Pure sack specialist who beats Tackles, that you would like out of a 1st round OLB. Hell, if he had a different last name he probably falls clear into the 2nd round.
Nevertheless, this was probably the 'safest' pick they could have chosen.
Nothing jumped off the screen when I watched his highlight reels. I just didnt see 1.) An athletic freak or 2.) Pure sack specialist who beats Tackles, that you would like out of a 1st round OLB. Hell, if he had a different last name he probably falls clear into the 2nd round.
Nevertheless, this was probably the 'safest' pick they could have chosen.