Do the Signs Point to Roethlisberger’s Retirement?

[Steeler Nation]

By: Michael Stiffler, @Stiffeezy_ on Twitter SteelerNation.com   The Pittsburgh Steelers have had a flurry of news hit since the end of their season, but one question remains unanswered, will Ben Roethlisberger*return for his 18th NFL season? Right now the Steelers are in a very tough situation as each year could be his very last […]

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[mdk2]

No.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

$19M reasons stick around

 

[BLITZ]

hopefully he signs a year extension and then retires after the 2021 season. spread his hit over 2 years

 

[Atlsteelers]

Peoples desperation to see Ben retire are at an all time high. Maybe Haskins signed a futures deal with us because his options were limited. Hate to break it to you but Ben will return for at least one more year.

 

[FSF]

Peoples desperation to see Ben retire are at an all time high. Maybe Haskins signed a futures deal with us because his options were limited. Hate to break it to you but Ben will return for at least one more year.

Only reason I would disagree—though he’s better than used to be he hasn’t been easiest to work with. Haley did job well (but he’s also abrasive and it’s cost him elsewhere). Fichtner—IMO, thus no facts or sources—didn’t command respect nor did he exude confidence. It was like he was reading “Offense for Dummies” when navigating a game instead of trusting himself.

So Ben didn’t like Haley despite achieving his best seasons & didn’t respect Fichtner as he had to abandon the game plan and make it up as he went to win.

How will he get along with someone who should be hired for long term fit vs. someone that had same vision as him?


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[SteelerSask2]

Peoples desperation to see Ben retire are at an all time high. Maybe Haskins signed a futures deal with us because his options were limited. Hate to break it to you but Ben will return for at least one more year.

It isn't my desire. Ben is my favorite Steelers player. I would like nothing more than to see him ride off with a SB and a FU to the media. I just don't see that happening and find it more likely that it will end embarrassingly than with a championship. And if it ends where it is most likely which is right where they are, why would anyone want to kick another 12-15 million dollars down the road for what we just watched.

 

[Coryea]

It isn't my desire. Ben is my favorite Steelers player. I would like nothing more than to see him ride off with a SB and a FU to the media. I just don't see that happening and find it more likely that it will end embarrassingly than with a championship. And if it ends where it is most likely which is right where they are, why would anyone want to kick another 12-15 million dollars down the road for what we just watched.

Maybe a new RB, OL, and OC turn this run game into a middle of the road running game and we don't have to throw it 55 times a game, and play fakes work and maybe Butler gets more control of the defense back after Tomlin has taken a beating about that playoff game.
Yeah, there's a very good chance we end up similar to where we did this year, but with Ben there's a sliver of hope if those other things work out, with Mason there's zero chance. I want to win more than anything, I'm not one of those fans trying to talk **** on Cleveland that hey you're on the couch with us, but we have a better draft pick, F that, I'd rather have kicked Clevelands *** then lost to Buffalo and have a lower draft pick than lose to them.
As for the money, I don't think kicking 10-12 million down the road is going to hurt us much.
1. We build through the draft, we don't sign high priced free agents, that 10-12 million won't effect, any of the upcoming drafts
2. That money won't effect keeping Watt or Minkah, or paying our next franchise QB.
3. The cap is supposed to really go up after this season.

Now if Ben decides to retire, or the Steelers politely suggest he retires, then I'm good with that too. I just don't see the restructured contract of his hurting us much down the road.

 

[Litos]

hope he stays but the O philosophy changes to a more run oriented game after draftiing OT, C, blocking TE and getting a vet FA RB to compete with Snell and the McFarland.

Then maybe Ben can succeed without the weight of the whole O on his shoulders

 

[Hoot]

While on the most boring call of all times, I got to wondering about what re-finacing Ben might look like. Took about 2m to put together a spreadsheet to see what a 2 year and 3 year deal would look like BEFORE adding any new money to the pot and kept salary the same. (Sal makes no difference if we assume he retires after 21 as it is unpaid money and not guaranteed.)

First, the assumptions:
22M in existing unrealized costs. That is the previous signing bonuses paid but were amortized across the current deal.
15M due in roster bonus on 3/1/21.
Bas Sal - 4M

The only thing that can be "spread" across a new deal are the unpaid bonuses from the past and the upcoming roster. You take the roster bonus, pay it as a singing bonus this year and add it to the other amortized costs. In short, take the total owed, divide by the deal term (years) and show it in a shiny table like I do below. Keep the Base Salary simple (unchanged).

So - Without adding any NEW money for Ben...

Two Year Deal
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]2021[/td]
[td]2022[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]amortized cost[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2021 Roster Bonus[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Salary[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

In short, if they did this, the cap hit this year would be 22.5M and 18.5M in 2022 (no salary).


Three Year Deal

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]2021[/td]
[td]2022[/td]
[td]2023[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Amortized Cost[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2021 Roster Bonus[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Salary[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

If they did this and he retired after 21, then the 21 cap hit is 16.33 but the last two years accelerate to 22 for a hit of 24.67 cap hit in 22.

Again, that is without adding any new money for Ben. There is no real reason for him to do so. In other words, this is the starting point of the conversation. The hits only go UP.

One last thing to note is that while we are in cap hell next year, we are something like 170M under in 22. Of course, there are a lot of people to get signed in that 170M and the new TV contract may well change everything.

I am no capologist, so I am working on my understanding of the basics. Perhaps there is more the team can do, but I think I am close enough for discussion. If anyone sees something I am doing wrong here, let me know.

 

[Drink IRON City]

While on the most boring call of all times, I got to wondering about what re-finacing Ben might look like. Took about 2m to put together a spreadsheet to see what a 2 year and 3 year deal would look like BEFORE adding any new money to the pot and kept salary the same. (Sal makes no difference if we assume he retires after 21 as it is unpaid money and not guaranteed.)

First, the assumptions:
22M in existing unrealized costs. That is the previous signing bonuses paid but were amortized across the current deal.
15M due in roster bonus on 3/1/21.
Bas Sal - 4M

The only thing that can be "spread" across a new deal are the unpaid bonuses from the past and the upcoming roster. You take the roster bonus, pay it as a singing bonus this year and add it to the other amortized costs. In short, take the total owed, divide by the deal term (years) and show it in a shiny table like I do below. Keep the Base Salary simple (unchanged).

So - Without adding any NEW money for Ben...

Two Year Deal
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]2021[/td]
[td]2022[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]amortized cost[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2021 Roster Bonus[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Salary[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

In short, if they did this, the cap hit this year would be 22.5M and 18.5M in 2022 (no salary).


Three Year Deal

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]2021[/td]
[td]2022[/td]
[td]2023[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Amortized Cost[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2021 Roster Bonus[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Salary[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

If they did this and he retired after 21, then the 21 cap hit is 16.33 but the last two years accelerate to 22 for a hit of 24.67 cap hit in 22.

Again, that is without adding any new money for Ben. There is no real reason for him to do so. In other words, this is the starting point of the conversation. The hits only go UP.

One last thing to note is that while we are in cap hell next year, we are something like 170M under in 22. Of course, there are a lot of people to get signed in that 170M and the new TV contract may well change everything.

I am no capologist, so I am working on my understanding of the basics. Perhaps there is more the team can do, but I think I am close enough for discussion. If anyone sees something I am doing wrong here, let me know.

I was hoping you could maybe use a little prettier color on the borders.....................




Salute the nation

 

[Hoot]

I was hoping you could maybe use a little prettier color on the borders.....................




Salute the nation

I can't match a pair of socks.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Maybe a new RB, OL, and OC turn this run game into a middle of the road running game and we don't have to throw it 55 times a game, and play fakes work and maybe Butler gets more control of the defense back after Tomlin has taken a beating about that playoff game.
Yeah, there's a very good chance we end up similar to where we did this year, but with Ben there's a sliver of hope if those other things work out, with Mason there's zero chance. I want to win more than anything, I'm not one of those fans trying to talk **** on Cleveland that hey you're on the couch with us, but we have a better draft pick, F that, I'd rather have kicked Clevelands *** then lost to Buffalo and have a lower draft pick than lose to them.
As for the money, I don't think kicking 10-12 million down the road is going to hurt us much.
1. We build through the draft, we don't sign high priced free agents, that 10-12 million won't effect, any of the upcoming drafts
2. That money won't effect keeping Watt or Minkah, or paying our next franchise QB.
3. The cap is supposed to really go up after this season.

Now if Ben decides to retire, or the Steelers politely suggest he retires, then I'm good with that too. I just don't see the restructured contract of his hurting us much down the road.

Kicking 10-12 million dollars down the road is what got them where they are. You cannot continue to pay for performance already made. Most importantly, I'm just not down with any kind of facade of success with Tomlin. So if Ben gets the team 9 wins. Then we will be right back here again. Tomlin gets extension AND SQUARE ONE ANOTHER YEAR LATER.

 

[bermudasteel]

Maybe a new RB, OL, and OC turn this run game into a middle of the road running game and we don't have to throw it 55 times a game, and play fakes work and maybe Butler gets more control of the defense back after Tomlin has taken a beating about that playoff game.
Yeah, there's a very good chance we end up similar to where we did this year, but with Ben there's a sliver of hope if those other things work out, with Mason there's zero chance. I want to win more than anything, I'm not one of those fans trying to talk **** on Cleveland that hey you're on the couch with us, but we have a better draft pick, F that, I'd rather have kicked Clevelands *** then lost to Buffalo and have a lower draft pick than lose to them.
As for the money, I don't think kicking 10-12 million down the road is going to hurt us much.
1. We build through the draft, we don't sign high priced free agents, that 10-12 million won't effect, any of the upcoming drafts
2. That money won't effect keeping Watt or Minkah, or paying our next franchise QB.
3. The cap is supposed to really go up after this season.

Now if Ben decides to retire, or the Steelers politely suggest he retires, then I'm good with that too. I just don't see the restructured contract of his hurting us much down the road.

You forgot to add maybe a real bye week during the season to rest the entire team would be nice too.

We got butt poked there and it was obvious that we ran out of gas when we needed it...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[SteelerSask2]

Bermuda I'm not going to say that the bye situation had no effect. I'm sure it did. But to me what did this team in beyond injuries (which happen to every team) is the inability of the coaching staff to fix anything or move strategy. So once the opposition started to zero in on what the Steekers could and could not do they were sunk. Specifically, once they knew the Steelers were a lightweight run team, they dropped a ton of coverage and packed zones. It just becomes a law of averages when you have to constantly pass on third and 2 or 3 that you will be unsuccessful.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Steeler fans emotionally give head coaches contracts for life, while QBs are wayward sons at best.

For some of the fan base who are overeager to run Ben out of town and scapegoat him for Tomlin's abysmal playoff record of past 10 years, I can't wait to see the future without Ben.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Bermuda I'm not going to say that the bye situation had no effect. I'm sure it did. But to me what did this team in beyond injuries (which happen to every team) is the inability of the coaching staff to fix anything or move strategy. So once the opposition started to zero in on what the Steekers could and could not do they were sunk. Specifically, once they knew the Steelers were a lightweight run team, they dropped a ton of coverage and packed zones. It just becomes a law of averages when you have to constantly pass on third and 2 or 3 that you will be unsuccessful.

I hear a lot on what you are saying. Another 8-8 year non-losing season and yes, I think you hit it on the head with AVERAGE Tomlin and $$$cap$$$ pushed ahead.

I think they will extend BEN to spread his cap but also pretty sure 21' is his last season wheather by his choice or not (if he don't retire). Kahn will masterly manipulate the cap dollars but he also has a boss who seems to think he has endless fans but more importantly a perfect Buisness model of a franchise. As long as the money is there profitably, not much will change.

SteelerSask, you are right on the worse they do with Tomlin at the helm the more likely the change will happen. We have a few seasons of underperforming but built in excuses so hard to say what direction ownership is looking. I'm impressed they are looking outside organization of OC, ONLY a 1 year extention on DC and no extension on HC yet.

Time will tell.




Salute the nation

 

[Steelr4evr]

Steeler fans emotionally give head coaches contracts for life, while QBs are wayward sons at best.

For some of the fan base who are overeager to run Ben our out town and scapegoat him for Tomlin's abysmal playoff record of past 10 years, I can't wait to see the future without Ben.

I don't think people understand that post Ben Steelers won't be sniffing a championship anytime soon. It is ridiculously hard to find that "guy" at the qb position. I think they're right on the edge. Address the line and run the damn ball. Defense is good enough to win it all.

The biggest factor way beyond the players is coaching. This is more than scheme and calling plays, but teaching fundamentals. If you can't do the easy things right, you'll never be able to do the big things right.

It is all above the shoulders. This fatal flaw has grown over 12 years.

 

[Stryker]

While on the most boring call of all times, I got to wondering about what re-finacing Ben might look like. Took about 2m to put together a spreadsheet to see what a 2 year and 3 year deal would look like BEFORE adding any new money to the pot and kept salary the same. (Sal makes no difference if we assume he retires after 21 as it is unpaid money and not guaranteed.)

First, the assumptions:
22M in existing unrealized costs. That is the previous signing bonuses paid but were amortized across the current deal.
15M due in roster bonus on 3/1/21.
Bas Sal - 4M

The only thing that can be "spread" across a new deal are the unpaid bonuses from the past and the upcoming roster. You take the roster bonus, pay it as a singing bonus this year and add it to the other amortized costs. In short, take the total owed, divide by the deal term (years) and show it in a shiny table like I do below. Keep the Base Salary simple (unchanged).

So - Without adding any NEW money for Ben...

Two Year Deal
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]2021[/td]
[td]2022[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]amortized cost[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2021 Roster Bonus[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Salary[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

In short, if they did this, the cap hit this year would be 22.5M and 18.5M in 2022 (no salary).


Three Year Deal

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]2021[/td]
[td]2022[/td]
[td]2023[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Amortized Cost[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[td]7.33[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2021 Roster Bonus[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Salary[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[td]16.33[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

If they did this and he retired after 21, then the 21 cap hit is 16.33 but the last two years accelerate to 22 for a hit of 24.67 cap hit in 22.

Again, that is without adding any new money for Ben. There is no real reason for him to do so. In other words, this is the starting point of the conversation. The hits only go UP.

One last thing to note is that while we are in cap hell next year, we are something like 170M under in 22. Of course, there are a lot of people to get signed in that 170M and the new TV contract may well change everything.

I am no capologist, so I am working on my understanding of the basics. Perhaps there is more the team can do, but I think I am close enough for discussion. If anyone sees something I am doing wrong here, let me know.

Excellent job Hoot.

Though they wouldn't set the salary to $0 next year, but that amount becomes moot if Ben retires, so even setting the salary for next year at $20-25M means that money comes off the books and we've still effectively spread out Ben's cap hit over 2 years.

Still you're hitting on all the points. I started teaching myself how to do this back when TMC left and got pretty good at it. It's fun to play with money when it isn't yours!

 

[F83]

add in a more run first OL and calls and cut game plan to 30 passes unless shootout. if you can do that it will keep his legs fresh, you let Conner go replace draft with Harris or zamir white and a vet like AP or Gore for leadership and help grrom snell and eithier RB drafted and teach mcfarland to just hit the hole and stoip doing head pump fakes.

LT I have in mind draft wise Mayfield Radunz Liam Eichenberg or Wisconson Ot or stanford Little. texas Virgina Sennie are sure top 20 what we could see with so many qb moving up and WR's is a OT like virgina or Northwestern or Little fall to us at 24 and qwe move up in rnd to to take Clemson or Zamir white out of uga

 

[Hoot]

Excellent job Hoot.

Though they wouldn't set the salary to $0 next year, but that amount becomes moot if Ben retires, so even setting the salary for next year at $20-25M means that money comes off the books and we've still effectively spread out Ben's cap hit over 2 years.

Still you're hitting on all the points. I started teaching myself how to do this back when TMC left and got pretty good at it. It's fun to play with money when it isn't yours!

yes, the salary after 21year is irrelevant using the assumption that he retires after 21 so no need to muddy the water. I also add no new bonus money. The point was to show what is currently owed if it were amortized over a new deal. Problem is, he isn't going to sign a new deal with no new money.

 

[Drink IRON City]

yes, the salary after 21year is irrelevant using the assumption that he retires after 21 so no need to muddy the water. I also add no new bonus money. The point was to show what is currently owed if it were amortized over a new deal. Problem is, he isn't going to sign a new deal with no new money.

I think the new money is directly proportionate to his wanting a shot at a championship. He may do a contract with very little new money with chance to play. He isn't going somewhere else to play, he has enough $$$coin$$$ but he doesn't have enough SB wins....




Salute the nation

 

[Hoot]

I think the new money is directly proportionate to his wanting a shot at a championship. He may do a contract with very little new money with chance to play. He isn't going somewhere else to play, he has enough $$$coin$$$ but he doesn't have enough SB wins....




Salute the nation

perhaps, but the point of my exercise wasn't intended to think past 21 but rather to demonstrate what the current "debt" would look like if it were spread back out on a new deal. Any new monies, big or small, would add to those numbers. If you put in bonus money, it gets spread across the amortized costs line. If you do it in salary and roster bonus, then it only comes due when he is playing (EDIT - roster bonus and sal are not paid unless he is on the roster). The question interested fans should be looking at on those numbers, is it worth it lowering 21 cap to kick out 20+M in dead money to 22 and/or 23 really worth the relief it gives this year? It is the question that has been debated here for several days now in several threads. All I did was put some numbers to it.

 

[SojournerSteel]

I don't think people understand that post Ben Steelers won't be sniffing a championship anytime soon. It is ridiculously hard to find that "guy" at the qb position. I think they're right on the edge. Address the line and run the damn ball. Defense is good enough to win it all.

The biggest factor way beyond the players is coaching. This is more than scheme and calling plays, but teaching fundamentals. If you can't do the easy things right, you'll never be able to do the big things right.

It is all above the shoulders. This fatal flaw has grown over 12 years.

Reading a few other boards, some seem to feel that Ben has been the biggest thing holding this team back and he is to primarily blame for the abysmal postseasons of the past decade. That "Tomlin deserves to have his own QB" (in year 15!).

Well, I remember a decade ago it was "Tomlin deserves to have his own defense" and "I can't wait until Tomlin has his own defense."

Didn't work out too well against Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield.

Many of us have seen enough.