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Do teams place too much emphasis on combine results?

steelhurt

steelhurt

In Andy I trust....
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I don’t start multitudes of new threads and try to pick my spots when I think that I have a good topic.

Therefore I would like pose this question to the board members here. Do you think the 32 teams in the NFL rely too heavily on the combine results when selections are made?

I personally weigh what is on tape from 3-4 years at the collegiate level and at what level of competition although not a deterrent if played at Div ll. Has he been productive at his position? What type of character? Did he have off field issues? Get along with teammates, team player type? How coachable is the kid?

The combine numbers although obviously important to most just do not give me enough without what I described as important elements imo. I just don’t think combine numbers, wonderlic scores tell the entire story on a kid.









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steelhurt said:
I don’t start multitudes of new threads and try to pick my spots when I think that I have a good topic.

Therefore I would like pose this question to the board members here. Do you think the 32 teams in the NFL rely too heavily on the combine results when selections are made?

I personally weigh what is on tape from 3-4 years at the collegiate level and at what level of competition although not a deterrent if played at Div ll. Has he been productive at his position? What type of character? Did he have off field issues? Get along with teammates, team player type? How coachable is the kid?

The combine numbers although obviously important to most just do not give me enough without what I described as important elements imo. I just don’t think combine numbers, wonderlic scores tell the entire story on a kid.









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IMO most teams use the combine numbers as a tie breaker to an extent, a team has two guys they like extremely well and have graded almost even, they would use the combine results as a tie breaker.
We totally ignored the combine results when picking Jarvis I think lol.

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I think the combine is very important. A guy who can produce but simply isn't athletic enough to play the position is highly likely to bust (see Jones, Jarvis)

A guy who is a freak athlete (Shazier, Beckham for instance) already has the fundamental baseline of non-coachable things you need to succeed, so you don't even have to worry about that. Then you can look at the attitude, intelligence, etc. to see if he can be coached up.

Of course if you're just picking the SPARQiest players every year, then you're doing it wrong. Nobody should be that short-sighted. But physical ability is a massive predictor of NFL success.
 
Coryea said:
IMO most teams use the combine numbers as a tie breaker to an extent, a team has two guys they like extremely well and have graded almost even, they would use the combine results as a tie breaker.
We totally ignored the combine results when picking Jarvis I think lol.

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They were out to lunch that day. :hungry:

What Tom said.

But I think the teams do put a different perspective on small schools. Some teams don't seem to factor that in as much. Those non power 5 school reaches. I say reaches because a lot simply didn't have enough game tape against top competition. But some see it as potential over production -competition.

I think today is different than years past in regards to how teams stack their boards. As the rookie cap figured into that.

But in that transition I think the Steelers stayed true to their methods.

I think some teams still slobber over combine standouts. And might pop them even up a round who knows.

I do know there is a decent amount of reaches. So it is either based off of great combines ****** scouts, or a combinaton of both.
 
Personally, I go by stats to see whom I’m interested in. Then film. Then combine results. If combine results are not indicative of stats I go back and watch more film. Now combine results can be either way. Jarvis Jones stats were off the chart, combine off the charts in a negative way, and the film showed a guy surrounded by a great supporting cast and was unblocked a ton. I saw a lot of similarities in Rashaan Evans but he didn’t even do most the drills. My assumption is he’s a little more athletic than JJ so he might end up being a starter or at the very least a top backup.


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Size/speed ratio is pretty good for predicting players future performance all things considered... von miller has almost perfect s/sr but then again so does Dupree lol games play on the grass not paper always hard to remember for gms and scouts
 
Its an imperfect science /art. Its one piece tape, but the problem with tape is almost everyone a guy faces wont be his opponent on Sundays. But then on the other hand the combine is shorts and shirt. I find it hard to believe that teams dont get most of their physical stuff from a combo of tape and computer. This is how fast the guy tracks the ball in the air after he transitions out of his pedal. This is how quick he closes on a qb. This is how high he can jump for a pass. Compare that to quality nfl guys film.
I would say that I would be weary of a guy who climbs via the combine. But I could eliminate a guy real easy based upon certain drills and values that I place as a premium for a position.
 
My figure it would be. Athletic ability,character,work ethic and is he coachable. The film will tell a lot,but you also have the context of the level of whom you're playing against. Sometimes I'd figure you just have to find that out on the professional level.
 
My figure it would be. Athletic ability,character,work ethic and is he coachable. The film will tell a lot,but you also have the context of the level of whom you're playing against. Sometimes I'd figure you just have to find that out on the professional level. I suppose that could go for a large percentage of drafted players.
 
One thing I've noticed after watching the combine for the last few years is I'm able to visualize the mechanics of individuals far better than I can suited up at full speed on Saturday's. Add that to what's on tape, interviews, and quality of conference opponents and I get a better idea of the athletes. Maybe some teams fall in love with combine #'s, but I feel successful coaches and gm's consider much more.
 
Some teams habitually fall in love with combine numbers put up in shorts and t-shirts (Oakland) but I think everybody gets fooled once in a while including the Steelers. There are guys who put up good numbers but aren't football players, like Worilds and Dupree, and other guys who don't put up good numbers but are ballers like Hines Ward.
 
steelhurt said:
I don’t start multitudes of new threads and try to pick my spots when I think that I have a good topic.

Therefore I would like pose this question to the board members here. Do you think the 32 teams in the NFL rely too heavily on the combine results when selections are made?

I personally weigh what is on tape from 3-4 years at the collegiate level and at what level of competition although not a deterrent if played at Div ll. Has he been productive at his position? What type of character? Did he have off field issues? Get along with teammates, team player type? How coachable is the kid?

The combine numbers although obviously important to most just do not give me enough without what I described as important elements imo. I just don’t think combine numbers, wonderlic scores tell the entire story on a kid.









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Excellent topic. Most of us 'level-headed' posters will agree w/ you. There are a few who get memorized by the smoke and mirrors of the combine results...

Heck, even the Steelers were slightly bamboozled w/ Dupree and his results...
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Some teams habitually fall in love with combine numbers put up in shorts and t-shirts (Oakland) but I think everybody gets fooled once in a while including the Steelers. There are guys who put up good numbers but aren't football players, like Worilds and Dupree, and other guys who don't put up good numbers but are ballers like Hines Ward.
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I agree Ron, but at least Worlids was effective at rushing the passer.
 
Well, we know Coach does. Throw in Senior Bowl practices and the Senior Bowl as well. Coach insinuates those three trumps actual game tape.

Cope said:
Film is the floor and shows some potential.

Combine measures potential quickness and explosiveness.

The film sets the bar, the combine moves that bar up or down.
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Cope nails it right here....perfect explanation.

The combine is just another tool to clarify the assessment you already have on tape.




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Cope said:
Film is the floor and shows some potential.

Combine measures potential quickness and explosiveness.

The film sets the bar, the combine moves that bar up or down.
Click to expand...




Pretty SOLID assessment Cope. Film has to play a large roll and the combine should confirm what you see on tape (speed / agility / stregnth / hands / position specific). One can get caught up.......does any one Remeber Zeroway or close to that spelling. He was a phenomenal work out King and benched an unbelievable amount but it never really transferred to the field of play. STEELER'S took him anyways and I think that was on potential (the combine showed). I think had they ONLY watched film he might not have been a STEELERS player.




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