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Contracts that expire on defense for 2017

ark steel said:
I hope that is enough to keep JJ.
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HA! I just hope we get a 7th round compensatory draft pick for losing him in 2018. Funny the defense ( and pass rush ) suddenly became much better when Harrison was back as the starter.

With the new cap number up to $36,964,343 color me excited. Free agency is a drain on us in most years. Not the case in 2017.
 
Coach said:
With the new cap number up to $36,964,343 color me excited. Free agency is a drain on us in most years. Not the case in 2017.
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So it's more like $26M? Isn't Bell a FA in 2017? Unless we let him walk, that's probably at least another $10M either via tag or pro-rated signing bonus. So now it's more like $16M. What about Brown? If we resign him, that could take up several more million.

That $26M could be spent almost entirely on players currently on the team.
 
Troglodyte said:
So it's more like $26M? Isn't Bell a FA in 2017? Unless we let him walk, that's probably at least another $10M either via tag or pro-rated signing bonus. So now it's more like $16M. What about Brown? If we resign him, that could take up several more million.

That $26M could be spent almost entirely on players currently on the team.
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Curious how $37M went to $16M by signing Bell? We could franchise him for way less than that. AB already has a big number next year and a hefty signing bonus his way will make it so that number does not hit the free space much at all, depending on how contract structured.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
Curious how $37M went to $16M by signing Bell? We could franchise him for way less than that. AB already has a big number next year and a hefty signing bonus his way will make it so that number does not hit the free space much at all, depending on how contract structured.
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As mentioned, $10 million goes to retaining full roster.

Another way to look at it is the Steelers have $2.4 million to spend per open roster spot, which is about an average salary, isn't it?
 
Didn't know you were rolling off Cope's article, but the 10 million to retain whole roster included AB if I remember correctly. At any rate we are Steeler rich with plenty of room to retain Bell, AB and any "key" pieces as well as probably getting a couple free agents...Steeler rich. We will likely not retain the whole roster and can always restructure a couple deals if the right target is put there for us.
 
I don't know who will be available, but it would be nice to see them spend some of that $$$ on a good, young, backup DL and a more consistent #2 WR.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
I don't know who will be available, but it would be nice to see them spend some of that $$$ on a good, young, backup DL and a more consistent #2 WR.
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I was thinking more of a upgrade at OLBer and a solid WR...........
 
Our #2 WR could be solved if Martavis could keep away from the weed, so yup likely need a #2 receiver, DL depth and most definitely will have some very big shoes (production) to fill if we lose Jarvis.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
Didn't know you were rolling off Cope's article, but the 10 million to retain whole roster included AB if I remember correctly. At any rate we are Steeler rich with plenty of room to retain Bell, AB and any "key" pieces as well as probably getting a couple free agents...Steeler rich. We will likely not retain the whole roster and can always restructure a couple deals if the right target is put there for us.
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We'll have some extra money. I had us retaining Wheaton. That probably won't happen now. Also keep in mind, resigning AB will actually add to our Salary Cap. He's already on the books for 2017, and a new contract should drop his cap amount by $3-4M. Steelers should have between $22-25M in usable money to sign Bell and whoever they want after the rookies and street FAs are signed to fill the roster.
 
Cope said:
We'll have some extra money. I had us retaining Wheaton. That probably won't happen now. Also keep in mind, resigning AB will actually add to our Salary Cap. He's already on the books for 2017, and a new contract should drop his cap amount by $3-4M. Steelers should have between $22-25M in usable money to sign Bell and whoever they want after the rookies and street FAs are signed to fill the roster.
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And if they sign Bell instead of tagging him, that should keep the salary hit down as well.

IF they get aggressive no reason they can't upgrade two positions..
 
Cope said:
We'll have some extra money. I had us retaining Wheaton. That probably won't happen now. Also keep in mind, resigning AB will actually add to our Salary Cap. He's already on the books for 2017, and a new contract should drop his cap amount by $3-4M. Steelers should have between $22-25M in usable money to sign Bell and whoever they want after the rookies and street FAs are signed to fill the roster.
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Cope.

Re-signing Bell is risky business. Two knee injuries, and two suspensions in his career.

Bell hasn't been as good this year. He has fumbled more ( 4 times, he leads the NFL ) and only scored 4 times.

Bell is a chain mover type with limited big play ability. While he catches the ball well, his 8.0 yards per catch is middle of the pack among RB's. 12 other Running back players have a higher YPC average at running back.

The reason he's catching it often this year is because Bryant, Wheaton, and Bey are out, and Coates who if iffy on catching has injured fingers. And James is average at best at TE.

Bell's 4.5 yards per rush is decent, but 12 other running backs have better.

So he's 12th in yards per rush and 13th yard per catch. Yeah, yeah yeah, be is flexible in deployment, but I'm not seeing elite level franchise type of numbers, are you?

All this with Ben and a good OL.

Is Bell worth 12-15 million a year to you? Not for me. I'm okay letting him go as long as we can sign the best free agent pass rusher or DB. Or I'm okay keeping him for 8 million a year for 3 years with contract clauses on suspensions. Let's not get caught with another Woodley!
 
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Coach said:
Cope.

Re-signing Bell is risky business. Two knee injuries, and two suspensions in his career.

Bell hasn't been as good this year. He has fumbled more ( 4 times, he leads the NFL ) and only scored 4 times.

Bell is a chain mover type with limited big play ability. While he catches the ball well, his 8.0 yards per catch is middle of the pack among RB's. 12 other Running back players have a higher YPC average at running back.

The reason he's catching it often this year is because Bryant, Wheaton, and Bey are out, and Coates who if iffy on catching has injured fingers. And James is average at best at TE.

Bell's 4.5 yards per rush is decent, but 12 other running backs have better.

So he's 12th in yards per rush and 13th yard per catch. Yeah, yeah yeah, be is flexible in deployment, but I'm not seeing elite level franchise type of numbers, are you?

All this with Ben and a good OL.

Is Bell worth 12-15 million a year to you? Not for me. I'm okay letting him go as long as we can sign the best free agent pass rusher or DB. Or I'm okay keeping him for 8 million a year for 3 years with contract clauses on suspensions. Let's not get caught with another Woodley!
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If we're cherry picking Bell stats he leads the league in scrimmage yards per game since he has returned from his suspension Coach, can't get better than #1. He is a chain moving matchup nightmare for defenses. While I wouldn't break the bank with a crazy guaranteed bonus number I would definitely retain him. He helps make the offense go and thus keeps the defensive time on the field down.

Either he takes a suspension clause in a long term deal or you simply franchise him.

If Bell was not retained we would still not go out and get the top pass rusher or DB which cost about 15-20M per year, it does not fit the way the Steelers (or any continually successful franchises) operate. Just ask the Jags how all that cash they spent in free agency is working out for them. So many rubes fell into the "they won the offseason philosophy" that people jump on every year after a team breaks the bank signing big names only to remain what they are...an unsuccessful franchise.
 
Dual-Threat Back Le’Veon Bell Still Second In NFL In Rushing Yards Per Game



BY*MATTHEW MARCZI*DECEMBER 7, 2016 AT 11:00 AM


As impressive as it is to think about what*Pittsburgh Steelers*running back*Le’Veon Bell*has been able to accomplish not just over the course of his career, but even specifically during this season, the most impressive statistic to me has to be the fact that he has gained more yards per game played than anybody else in the league. His 146.4 yards per game is four yards more than Arizona’s*David Johnson, and more than 10 yards more per game than the Cowboys’*Ezekiel Elliott.

But what impresses me even more about that statistic is the fact that he has actually done so much of that work on the ground, as he actually is second in the league, behind only Elliott, in terms of rushing yards per game. Of course, it helps that he has rushed for over 100 yards in three consecutive games, the first time he has done that in his career.

While Elliot is far and away the frontrunner in terms of rushing yards per game—he is averaging 107.1 yards on the ground per game—Bell is a distant, yet still second, runner-up, averaging 90.8 yards per game. And that is actually about four yards on the ground more per game than the third-place runner,*DeMarco Murray.

Elliot, Johnson, and Murray are the only three running backs currently to have topped 1000 yards on the ground, though there are a few who are close. Still, considering the fact that he has missed, to date, a full quarter of the games played this year, the fact that Bell is in the top 10 in terms of total rushing yards with 817 is quite impressive.

Among running backs with at least 100 carries, Bell’s 4.5 yards per carry is also comfortably within the top 10, and that is an impressive figure when you take into consideration the fact that the Steelers have gone up against some of the toughest run defenses in the league, particularly the Ravens, but Bell has faced four of the top five teams in terms of rushing yards allowed per game, and the three top teams in terms of yards allowed per carry.


http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...bell-still-second-nfl-rushing-yards-per-game/



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Fiji and AJ beat me to it. Though some of Coach's concerns are valid, you have to look at them situationally.

2 suspensions are troubling. You have to know that he is still a tier 1 offender for the substance abuse policy. His next offense is 4 games. Not 10, not the season. It's an interesting subplot, but Bell does have a history now of failing tests. His contract needs to include wording that he must stay clean to reach is full contract potential.

I'm not worried about his knees, both injuries were massive traumas to the joint, not a distinct lack of knee strength or joint durability. The kid also rehabbed from an ACL/MCL tear. That shows more to his strength, that not only could he rehab from that massive knee trauma, but he's still competing at an elite level for his position. Only AP was able to rehab from that type of knee trauma and return to top form. Now Bell has joined him.

Fumbles do happen in the sport, but the more important statistic about fumbles, is fumbles lost, not general fumbles. A couple of his fumbles landed harmlessly out of bounds. The one last weekend, I have seen those plays blown dead, before ruling them a fumble. I was fine with the way it was called, he was on top of people (though his progress was obviously stopped). It was a heads up play by the Giants to take advantage of that unique situation to get the fumble. Bell is not a fumbler to worry about. He is not Tiki Barber. He is the guy I am confident in having the ball at the end of the game to seal it. He cares about securing the football, and it shows in his play.

To me Bell is worth $14M a year and I'll tell you my reasoning: With Bell, you are not getting just a great running back. You are getting a great running back AND an excellent receiver. He is a true dual threat, unlike any dual threat we've ever seen at RB. He's not just running wheel routes, screens, and safety valves (as most dual threat RBs are rated). He splits wide and runs a full cross, or a chair, or a post-in. I've never seen RBs do that. He's running the entire route tree, and he does it fluidly with excellent feet and hands.

It's a difference of how we value Bell. I will admit, his fluidity and length makes it look like he's not doing much, but he's constantly getting that extra 2-4yds on each carry, and he makes it look easy. I pay well to keep playmakers, and Bell is one of the best playmakers in the league. You can bet if the Steelers don't value Bell at $14M, there will be 15 teams lining up to get him at that price, and they won't think twice about paying that amount.
 
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Fiji Mariner said:
If we're cherry picking Bell stats he leads the league in scrimmage yards per game since he has returned from his suspension Coach, can't get better than #1. He is a chain moving matchup nightmare for defenses. While I wouldn't break the bank with a crazy guaranteed bonus number I would definitely retain him. He helps make the offense go and thus keeps the defensive time on the field down.

Either he takes a suspension clause in a long term deal or you simply franchise him.

If Bell was not retained we would still not go out and get the top pass rusher or DB which cost about 15-20M per year, it does not fit the way the Steelers (or any continually successful franchises) operate. Just ask the Jags how all that cash they spent in free agency is working out for them. So many rubes fell into the "they won the offseason philosophy" that people jump on every year after a team breaks the bank signing big names only to remain what they are...an unsuccessful franchise.
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The highest paid Corner gets 15 million a year. Not sure why you are saying 20 million.

http://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

For 12-15 million, you can get a top DB, edge rusher, or DT for the 4 man front.

Running backs are very replaceable, and if you've got one that has been hurt twice, and suspended twice....the risk is too high for what Bell will ask.

For 12-15 million, I want a game breaker type. Not a great chain mover type at a very replaceable spot.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
Our #2 WR could be solved if Martavis could keep away from the weed, so yup likely need a #2 receiver, DL depth and most definitely will have some very big shoes (production) to fill if we lose Jarvis.
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We could use money that doesn't apply to the Salary Cap to hire some people to follow Martavis around, 24/7, with a cattle prod. Buzz him every time he is about to do something stupid.
 
Cope said:
Fiji and AJ beat me to it. Though some of Coach's concerns are valid, you have to look at them situationally.

2 suspensions are troubling. You have to know that he is still a tier 1 offender for the substance abuse policy. His next offense is 4 games. Not 10, not the season. It's an interesting subplot, but Bell does have a history now of failing tests. His contract needs to include wording that he must stay clean to reach is full contract potential.

I'm not worried about his knees, both injuries were massive traumas to the joint, not a distinct lack of knee strength or joint durability. The kid also rehabbed from an ACL/MCL tear. That shows more to his strength, that not only could he rehab from that massive knee trauma, but he's still competing at an elite level for his position. Only AP was able to rehab from that type of knee trauma and return to top form. Now Bell has joined him.

Fumbles do happen in the sport, but the more important statistic about fumbles, is fumbles lost, not general fumbles. A couple of his fumbles landed harmlessly out of bounds. The one last weekend, I have seen those plays blown dead, before ruling them a fumble. I was fine with the way it was called, he was on top of people (though his progress was obviously stopped). It was a heads up play by the Giants to take advantage of that unique situation to get the fumble. Bell is not a fumbler to worry about. He is not Tiki Barber. He is the guy I am confident in having the ball at the end of the game to seal it. He cares about securing the football, and it shows in his play.

To me Bell is worth $14M a year and I'll tell you my reasoning: With Bell, you are not getting just a great running back. You are getting a great running back AND an excellent receiver. He is a true dual threat, unlike any dual threat we've ever seen at RB. He's not just running wheel routes, screens, and safety valves (as most dual threat RBs are rated). He splits wide and runs a full cross, or a chair, or a post-in. I've never seen RBs do that. He's running the entire route tree, and he does it fluidly with excellent feet and hands.

It's a difference of how we value Bell. I will admit, his fluidity and length makes it look like he's not doing much, but he's constantly getting that extra 2-4yds on each carry, and he makes it look easy. I pay well to keep playmakers, and Bell is one of the best playmakers in the league. You can bet if the Steelers don't value Bell at $14M, there will be 15 teams lining up to get him at that price, and they won't think twice about paying that amount.
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Absolute rock bottom, I would say is north of $10m. If you can get him for that, rejoice. The only problem I have with upwards of $14m and it would, absolutely, have to include bonuses on not being suspended for drug use to get to $14m/year.

Someone may be willing to pay him that without the restrictions.

I was thinking, after some comments in the DeCastro/Pouncey thread. If you have a cap space to give to limited number of positions, how do you, if you want to run a successful franchise, allocate that to the different main groups?

QBs
RBs
Receivers (putting WR and TE's here)
OL
DL
LBs
DBs

To win consistently, you need the QB to be well above average. I don't think you need Elite status there, but it doesn't hurt. In any event, this is gonna cost you.

if you go overboard on one group, which group do you pull from? A good OL can make a QB and RB look better. A good RB, to a lesser extent IMO, can make an OL look better.

With today's NFL, I do agree with Coach that RB is a fairly replaceable position. However, I think that goes out the window when you have someone as good as Bell. Especially, because of his receiving ability, he may take less of a beating than a traditional RB and last a couple more years.

Still, the suspension issue bothers me.
 
Bell hasn't been as good. Bell lost a step. WTF are some people watching? Bell is still the BEST RB in the NFL. He gets 150-200 yards from scrimmage just about every week even when the O-line is sucking. He has shown NO signs of slowing down at all. He touches the ball more than anyone other the Ben and Pouncey. You absolutely sign him if you can afford to. They will definitely sign AB unless AB wants to go elsewhere. And, Bell will be franchised if he doesn't like the long term deal they WILL offer him.

The Steelers should want and need to have AB and Bell on the team for at least as long as Ben is playing. When Ben goes, that pretty much signals the end of our realistic SB chances until another franchise QB is found. That could take a decade or two but hopefully only a year or two.
 
I hear you Ark. $14M was a number Coach used, and I'd pay that if it's the Franchise value for RBs, but it will probably be closer to $12M. I pay that in a heartbeat to retain Bell for a year. If it's long term, I agree it should be closer to $10-11M per season. bonuses could take it higher, and I'd be fine with that as well. A 4-5 year contract is all Ben has left. Brown's contract should reflect that timing as well.
 
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