Colbert Ranket #19 Best GM

[Bigappleyinzer]

I'd rather have Mayock as the GM. Cowher's best stuff was motivation, accountability among the players, sideline coaching, and building a very good team around some average to bad QB's until Ben came around. Well--O'Donnell was decent enough

The players liked him and played hard for him. There were less " bad apples " when he was around. The fans seemed to like him as well and it added to our home field advantage which has declined as of late. Bill could fire up the fans. These days I see people leaving early, less noise and too many empty seats, even last year when we were 11-5.

Cowher hired a very good group of coaches who were loyal to him in Erhardt, Gailey, Mulakrey, Wisehhunt, Capers, LeBeau, and Haslett. The one major miss was T. Lewis and Cowher parted ways with him quickly. Most of these guys became head coaches.

This entire post is so full of revisionist history and fluff.

Cowher didnt have any bad apples on his team? Cowher knew how to fire up the stadium?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

As a draft guy Colbert can be decent at times. Other times too many of his picks in rounds 1-3 turn out to be disappointments or busts. As a GM who balances the cap and signs free agents, I find him lacking. Yeah - 19th out of 32 is about right.

Colbert drafted better I think under Cowher.

We tend to be a little harsh because it's our team but given that there are 32 GM's in the league and 19th means that there are 13 worse ones, I'd say that's about right.

 

[steelhurt]

So the Bengals get a pass because of the coach, Colbert gets beat down because of the coach. Lewis has more public say in who they draft than Tomlin does (thus the Brown/Lewis tag for the Bengals). This board is absolutely hilarious when it comes to our coach/gm compared to the rest of the league. We've won two superbowls and been to a third, there were Cowher players and Tomlin players on all the teams, and one common factor... Colbert. That's better than ANYTHING the Bengals have EVER done. We've drafted a lot of good players, some have left the team and gone elsewhere, some have returned, some players were brought in via FA that have worked out rather nicely as well. But the hate and nit picking that goes on with our own GM/ coach is so obvious when you start comparing them to their counterparts it's hilarious. Other teams get passes for the same exact things that Colbert and Tomlin get ridiculed for.

And anyone trying to compare LATE ROUND QB picks to what the future may bring when Ben retires is laughable. Landry Jones, Landry Jones, Landry Jones... Congratulations, you piked a QB that was drafted in the FOURTH round as your one standing example of their ability to draft a QB...smh

No one is giving the Bengals a pass. If you know how that team rolls its very unlike the Steelers. Mike Brown calls the shots and is responsible for player personnel not Lewis. Lewis is an ok coach that would look a whole lot better if he had a very good QB, much like Tomlin looks much better because he does. That's Brown's team and he brings the players in not Marvin. Here its a collaboration between Tomlin and Colbert.

Fourth round QB huh! You have a future HOF QB in waiting that's was a 6'th round pick in New England. Of course you already have one in the HOF that was a 3'rd round pick by the Niners. You want to have confidence that these two guys will be able to evaluate and bring in an eventual replacement for Ben go right ahead.

 

[insaniti]

LOL all Mike Brown huh? You don't know much about the Bengals then. Also, the only reason Lewis is still the coach is because they were too cheap to fire him, pay him AND a new coach. So that would fall on Browns hands. The fact that they "don't have a QB" would also be the fault of both Brown and Lewis... so again, giving them a pass aka excuses why they still haven't won a playoff game in 25 years!

So you pick two random QB choices from the past 30 years and forget all the failed picks from all the other teams outside of the first round like it's an easy thing to find QB's after the first round. When the Steelers are actually looking for a REPLACEMENT and not a BACK UP for Ben, then I'll judge them on how they draft QB's. You keep forgetting that ONE of THESE TWO GUYS was involved in drafting Ben in the first place.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

True, I can't see how the Bengals are rated that high.

 

[mightyguru]

I'd say Colbert is top 10.

 

[steelhurt]

LOL all Mike Brown huh? You don't know much about the Bengals then. Also, the only reason Lewis is still the coach is because they were too cheap to fire him, pay him AND a new coach. So that would fall on Browns hands. The fact that they "don't have a QB" would also be the fault of both Brown and Lewis... so again, giving them a pass aka excuses why they still haven't won a playoff game in 25 years!

So you pick two random QB choices from the past 30 years and forget all the failed picks from all the other teams outside of the first round like it's an easy thing to find QB's after the first round. When the Steelers are actually looking for a REPLACEMENT and not a BACK UP for Ben, then I'll judge them on how they draft QB's. You keep forgetting that ONE of THESE TWO GUYS was involved in drafting Ben in the first place.

What is your argument with me here? What I said was that I was ok with Mike Brown being rated #5 and that Lewis is not responsible for the draft. The fact they don't have a franchise QB would certainly fall on the person in charge of the draft but these type QB's are hard to come by and when you get one you're damn lucky. That is the only piece of the puzzle that the Bengals really need in my opinion and I'd say Brown has done a great job building that team. As for being cheap, that's a completely different argument that never came up in my posts only you mentioned that. Being cheap and being able to add talent through the draft have little to do with one another. Tomlin and Colbert do not work nearly as well together as Colbert and Cowher and in my belief I think Cowher was the true talent evaluator not Colbert. You may remember that Colbert was brought in from Detroit where he worked with Matt Milan. Those drafts remain legendary in Detroit.

Ben was drafted during the Cowher Colbert era. Of course there are rumors that Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews the OL that was drafted by the Eagles but who knows for sure if that's true.

When the Steelers drafted guys like Dennis Dixon, Landry Jones, and others they were as backups and not replacements but if you cannot even draft a decent backup then you leave me to wonder how it will go when it is actually time to replace Ben.

 

[Wingman]

What is your argument with me here? What I said was that I was ok with Mike Brown being rated #5 and that Lewis is not responsible for the draft. The fact they don't have a franchise QB would certainly fall on the person in charge of the draft but these type QB's are hard to come by and when you get one you're damn lucky. That is the only piece of the puzzle that the Bengals really need in my opinion and I'd say Brown has done a great job building that team. As for being cheap, that's a completely different argument that never came up in my posts only you mentioned that. Being cheap and being able to add talent through the draft have little to do with one another. Tomlin and Colbert do not work nearly as well together as Colbert and Cowher and in my belief I think Cowher was the true talent evaluator not Colbert. You may remember that Colbert was brought in from Detroit where he worked with Matt Milan. Those drafts remain legendary in Detroit.

Ben was drafted during the Cowher Colbert era. Of course there are rumors that Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews the OL that was drafted by the Eagles but who knows for sure if that's true.

When the Steelers drafted guys like Dennis Dixon, Landry Jones, and others they were as backups and not replacements but if you cannot even draft a decent backup then you leave me to wonder how it will go when it is actually time to replace Ben.

Your last sentence is pure gold. They have not drafted a decent back up QB for a while. I would consider the guys they have drafted wasted picks since they are not likely to do anything but lose when they get into the game. It has been a long time since we have picked a QB that was likely to end up being serviceable in a game.

 

[insaniti]

What is your argument with me here? What I said was that I was ok with Mike Brown being rated #5 and that Lewis is not responsible for the draft. The fact they don't have a franchise QB would certainly fall on the person in charge of the draft but these type QB's are hard to come by and when you get one you're damn lucky. That is the only piece of the puzzle that the Bengals really need in my opinion and I'd say Brown has done a great job building that team. As for being cheap, that's a completely different argument that never came up in my posts only you mentioned that. Being cheap and being able to add talent through the draft have little to do with one another. Tomlin and Colbert do not work nearly as well together as Colbert and Cowher and in my belief I think Cowher was the true talent evaluator not Colbert. You may remember that Colbert was brought in from Detroit where he worked with Matt Milan. Those drafts remain legendary in Detroit.

Ben was drafted during the Cowher Colbert era. Of course there are rumors that Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews the OL that was drafted by the Eagles but who knows for sure if that's true.

When the Steelers drafted guys like Dennis Dixon, Landry Jones, and others they were as backups and not replacements but if you cannot even draft a decent backup then you leave me to wonder how it will go when it is actually time to replace Ben.

My argument is that you think Lewis has nothing to do with the draft, or that the GM has nothing to do with the coach. You praise the Bengals for building a team that cannot win. Being cheap as a GM IS a factor. A GM's responsibilities are not JUST the draft, but you are putting a lot of weight into the draft. The Bengals first round picks haven't been all that impressive as they are made to be, their second round is a little better however. I'm sure everyone is praising them for landing AJ Green in the draft, but he was the 4th overall pick. The Bengals have been inconsistent for years, you can blame the coach all you want, but you should know from this board alone, it takes more than just the coach to be successful, you need the players. I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell Mike Brown is the fifth best GM in the league...no way no how.

Show me a team that is able to draft a back up QB that's been a "success" Dixon won us some games, and was part of Cowhers drafts. Landry Jones hasn't shown much, but we haven't exactly needed him either. Choosing a back up QB and a starting QB are two entirely different situations. With a starter you aren't looking at late round guys that are projects that COULD pan out.

Cowher might have been the talent evaluator you believe him to be, but one thing that ALWAYS gets overlooked when the topic of Cowher vs Tomlin drafts are the offensive side of the ball. Cowher nailed the defensive side for the most part, he could pick up LBers like they were growing on trees, but he didn't exactly draft shut down corners consistently. They got Ike and that's about it. Cowher loaded up the defensive side of the ball, Tomlin has loaded up the offensive side of the ball and put together an offense the Steelers have never seen before. We've got All- Pro's at 4 different positions, one of, if not the best WR in the game, one of, if not the best RB in the game, one of the best C in the game, we also have an up and comer at RG with DeCastro, and up and comer with Bryant and Wheaton has been solid for a 3rd round pick. For the **** that Tomlin takes for not being able to find defensive talent (which I say isn't as bad as some make it out to be...Timmons, Woodley, Heyward, Tuitt, currently stacked at ILB talent), he sure barely gets the credit for building the offense.

 

[Stryker]

To be fair, the Steelers have always been poor at developing QBs. Hell, they dumped Unitas before giving him a chance.

Either the Steeler QBs have talent, or they don't. Bradshaw, Brister, O'Donnell, Stewart, and Ben. That's our best of the best in our history. The Tee Martins and Mark Malones didn't pan because they didn't have talent. I'm not sure QB was even a position of emphasis on our team before Ben was picked. We were usually grabbing them in the 2nd - 3rd round. I think our only first rounders are Bradshaw, Malone, and Ben.

Point is, I haven't seen the Steelers develop drafted talent behind a starting QB. They usually poach FA QBs to be backups instead of creating them at home.

 

[blitzburghv5]

Who drafts stellar backup QBs in this league ? We haven't even seen our backup Quarterbacks play in what, 2-3 yrs ? Who is Seattles backup ? He very good ? What about New Englands backup ? Any good ? Packers ? 49ers ? Ravens ? Who in the league drafts great backups ? Youre only as good as your starting QB and the line that protects his ***........which prevents your backup from playing. And lets say they did draft a very good backup...theyd A) have to spend a high draft pick on him and B) chances are someone may likely snag him when his contract is up because the incumbent is still playing at a high level.

The time to draft the heir apparent to Ben comes in 2-3 years.(2 seasons of learning under the incumbent). In the mean time Grad is a capable backup so we don't even need to worry about Landry

 

[Wingman]

Laundry was a wasted pick and roster spot, so was archer.

 

[steelhurt]

My argument is that you think Lewis has nothing to do with the draft, or that the GM has nothing to do with the coach. You praise the Bengals for building a team that cannot win. Being cheap as a GM IS a factor. A GM's responsibilities are not JUST the draft, but you are putting a lot of weight into the draft. The Bengals first round picks haven't been all that impressive as they are made to be, their second round is a little better however. I'm sure everyone is praising them for landing AJ Green in the draft, but he was the 4th overall pick. The Bengals have been inconsistent for years, you can blame the coach all you want, but you should know from this board alone, it takes more than just the coach to be successful, you need the players. I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell Mike Brown is the fifth best GM in the league...no way no how.

Every team is different and the Bengals are controlled by the owner Mike Brown whether you agree with it or not that's the way they roll. Lewis I'm sure has input like all head coaches but its Brown who makes the decisions. Cheap was referenced by me regarding the draft and not free agency or paying your players. I said being cheap had nothing to do with the ability to draft and I'll stand by that. Brown like him or not has assembled a very good team most likely the best personnel in the division but they lack the most important piece, a franchise QB. As I said, those guys are hard to come by. Its not that Brown is cheap and that's why they don't have a great QB.

Show me a team that is able to draft a back up QB that's been a "success" Dixon won us some games, and was part of Cowhers drafts. Landry Jones hasn't shown much, but we haven't exactly needed him either. Choosing a back up QB and a starting QB are two entirely different situations. With a starter you aren't looking at late round guys that are projects that COULD pan out. [/B]

If you have difficulty evaluating a backup QB then it should concern one that the same could occur when you need a replacement for your starter.

Cowher might have been the talent evaluator you believe him to be, but one thing that ALWAYS gets overlooked when the topic of Cowher vs Tomlin drafts are the offensive side of the ball. Cowher nailed the defensive side for the most part, he could pick up LBers like they were growing on trees, but he didn't exactly draft shut down corners consistently. They got Ike and that's about it. Cowher loaded up the defensive side of the ball, Tomlin has loaded up the offensive side of the ball and put together an offense the Steelers have never seen before. We've got All- Pro's at 4 different positions, one of, if not the best WR in the game, one of, if not the best RB in the game, one of the best C in the game, we also have an up and comer at RG with DeCastro, and up and comer with Bryant and Wheaton has been solid for a 3rd round pick. For the **** that Tomlin takes for not being able to find defensive talent (which I say isn't as bad as some make it out to be...Timmons, Woodley, Heyward, Tuitt, currently stacked at ILB talent), he sure barely gets the credit for building the offense.

That's not correct. Cowher drafted very well on both sides of the ball. Hell he drafted Alan Faneca, Marvel Smith, Kendall Simmons, Leon Searcy,Heath Miller, Plaxico Burress, Mark Bruener,Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Ernie Mills, Andrea Hastings, Ben, and was instrumental in bringing in Jerome Bettis, brought in Mewelde Moore, Willie Parker, Jeff Reed, Jeff Hartings, Wayne Gandy. That's some pretty good offensive talent from the Cowher era. The problem with the Cowher era was the same as what's happening now I Cincinnati. No QB! Cowher as everyone knows went from the legendary O'Donnell and through an array of misfits down to Kordell and finally to Tommy Maddox but only because he had put together very good teams both offensively and defensively did they continue to be competitive.

And by the way I never said once that the #19 rating of Colbert was justified.. This was about Mike Brown being rated #5 GM solely based on talent evaluation and building his roster. And that Tomlin and Colbert do not work as well as Cowher and Colbert and they don't.