• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Center draft value

madinsomniac

Well-known member
Member
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
19,327
Reaction score
20,112
Points
113
Location
LP in the burgh
There is a real chance we will draft a Center this season, so lets break down the Position for draft value…



Steeler fans have a disproportional view of the Center position because The Steelers had such a streak of great center play. When Mansfield took over the position in the mid 60’s until Hartings retired in 06, the steelers had a total of 4 starting centers in 40 years. 2 of those are among the 10 centers in the HOF, and since only 8 of those are true centers, they have 25% of the true centers in the HOF… moreover after the 09 Mahan debacle, we used Justin Hartwig for two seasons, and won a super bowl with him before moving on to Pouncey, who may well make the HOF….

Center isn’t thought of as an important position in the NFL per se. Typically its listed in the bottom third of Starting Positions in most Rankings.

The rational is that the difference between having and exceptional C and an average C isn’t as great as it is at other positions like LT or G. and its thought that average Centers are easier to find than other positions, like an average Tackle.

Its also why very few Centers are in the HOF. 10 players in the hall are designated as Centers, but two of these (Chuck Bednarik and Frank Gatski, played Ironman football, and were in more for LB play than C play.

Another, Bruce Matthews, played 5 seasons of his 19 year career at C. Outside of an injury forced spot start in his second season, he didn’t play C until he was 30 and already an established all pro guard, then really only played 4 seasons there before moving back to guard until his final season…

So basically, beside the three odd cases above, there are only 7 HOF Centers

Dermontti Dawson
Jim Langer
Kevin Mawae
Jim Otto
Jim Ringo
Dwight Stephenson
Mike Webster

Of these, only two played after 1990… so the position is extremely devalued

Of the HOF Centers, only two were 1st Round picks, but those were Matthews and Bednarik, so neither were really drafted as true C’s
Otto was a weird AFL draft guy, so he doesn’t count at all… The two most recent, Dawson and Mawae, were both second round picks….

But that’s too small a sample and really too old to draw any conclusions…
So lets look at Aa list of recent Centers who may make the HOF or at least were pro bowl/all pro level
Ill add Dawson and Mawae to:
Matt Birk
Kevin Glover
Olen Kreutz
Nick Mangold
Tom Nalen
Jeff Saturday
Max Unger
Alex Mack
Jason Kelse
Maurkice Pouncey

Looking at where these exceptional centers were drafted:

Maurkice Pouncey -1st Round
Nick Mangold -1st Round
Alex Mack -1st Round

Max Unger -2nd Round
Kevin Glover -2nd Round
Dermontti Dawson -2nd Round
Kevin Mawae -2nd Round

Olen Kreutz -3rd Round

Matt Birk -6th Round
Jason Kelse -6th Round
Tom Nalen -7th Round

Jeff Saturday - UDFA



Its easy to conclude that while the Center position is devalued, if you are looking for a top end Center, drafting one in the top two rounds is absolutely worthwhile… You can definitely find an average one later in the draft, and we should note that since Kelse was a sixth and from Philly, its possible we are thinking of that route, but realistically we probasbly should take one in the late first or 2nd
 

ianv2012

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,802
Points
113
Location
FWB FL
There is a real chance we will draft a Center this season, so lets break down the Position for draft value…



Steeler fans have a disproportional view of the Center position because The Steelers had such a streak of great center play. When Mansfield took over the position in the mid 60’s until Hartings retired in 06, the steelers had a total of 4 starting centers in 40 years. 2 of those are among the 10 centers in the HOF, and since only 8 of those are true centers, they have 25% of the true centers in the HOF… moreover after the 09 Mahan debacle, we used Justin Hartwig for two seasons, and won a super bowl with him before moving on to Pouncey, who may well make the HOF….

Center isn’t thought of as an important position in the NFL per se. Typically its listed in the bottom third of Starting Positions in most Rankings.

The rational is that the difference between having and exceptional C and an average C isn’t as great as it is at other positions like LT or G. and its thought that average Centers are easier to find than other positions, like an average Tackle.

Its also why very few Centers are in the HOF. 10 players in the hall are designated as Centers, but two of these (Chuck Bednarik and Frank Gatski, played Ironman football, and were in more for LB play than C play.

Another, Bruce Matthews, played 5 seasons of his 19 year career at C. Outside of an injury forced spot start in his second season, he didn’t play C until he was 30 and already an established all pro guard, then really only played 4 seasons there before moving back to guard until his final season…

So basically, beside the three odd cases above, there are only 7 HOF Centers

Dermontti Dawson
Jim Langer
Kevin Mawae
Jim Otto
Jim Ringo
Dwight Stephenson
Mike Webster

Of these, only two played after 1990… so the position is extremely devalued

Of the HOF Centers, only two were 1st Round picks, but those were Matthews and Bednarik, so neither were really drafted as true C’s
Otto was a weird AFL draft guy, so he doesn’t count at all… The two most recent, Dawson and Mawae, were both second round picks….

But that’s too small a sample and really too old to draw any conclusions…
So lets look at Aa list of recent Centers who may make the HOF or at least were pro bowl/all pro level
Ill add Dawson and Mawae to:
Matt Birk
Kevin Glover
Olen Kreutz
Nick Mangold
Tom Nalen
Jeff Saturday
Max Unger
Alex Mack
Jason Kelse
Maurkice Pouncey

Looking at where these exceptional centers were drafted:

Maurkice Pouncey -1st Round
Nick Mangold -1st Round
Alex Mack -1st Round

Max Unger -2nd Round
Kevin Glover -2nd Round
Dermontti Dawson -2nd Round
Kevin Mawae -2nd Round

Olen Kreutz -3rd Round

Matt Birk -6th Round
Jason Kelse -6th Round
Tom Nalen -7th Round

Jeff Saturday - UDFA



Its easy to conclude that while the Center position is devalued, if you are looking for a top end Center, drafting one in the top two rounds is absolutely worthwhile… You can definitely find an average one later in the draft, and we should note that since Kelse was a sixth and from Philly, its possible we are thinking of that route, but realistically we probasbly should take one in the late first or 2nd
Tbh I'm really starting to dig the idea of Hunter Nourzad with that extra 3rd or 4th rounder. I think he's being heavily overlooked
 

SteelerFan448

Well-known member
Member
Forefather
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
15,092
Reaction score
17,088
Points
113
Good breakdown! I think it's a reason many want a center in the first round even though JPJ isn't the same level of prospect as Humphrey or Linderbaum. Maybe JPJ will be drafted very high as the product of need opposed to value. To me, he is a late first or second round player. There are better players who will be available at 1.20 for the Steelers.

Based on Tomlin's history, I don't think he values the center position (Mahan, Harwig, Cole) and the Steelers pre-draft process is indicating they won't take a center in the first round.
 

Ike Kelly

P-38L Fan
Contributor
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
3,753
Reaction score
4,856
Points
113
There is a real chance we will draft a Center this season, so lets break down the Position for draft value…



Steeler fans have a disproportional view of the Center position because The Steelers had such a streak of great center play. When Mansfield took over the position in the mid 60’s until Hartings retired in 06, the steelers had a total of 4 starting centers in 40 years. 2 of those are among the 10 centers in the HOF, and since only 8 of those are true centers, they have 25% of the true centers in the HOF… moreover after the 09 Mahan debacle, we used Justin Hartwig for two seasons, and won a super bowl with him before moving on to Pouncey, who may well make the HOF….

Center isn’t thought of as an important position in the NFL per se. Typically its listed in the bottom third of Starting Positions in most Rankings.

The rational is that the difference between having and exceptional C and an average C isn’t as great as it is at other positions like LT or G. and its thought that average Centers are easier to find than other positions, like an average Tackle.

Its also why very few Centers are in the HOF. 10 players in the hall are designated as Centers, but two of these (Chuck Bednarik and Frank Gatski, played Ironman football, and were in more for LB play than C play.

Another, Bruce Matthews, played 5 seasons of his 19 year career at C. Outside of an injury forced spot start in his second season, he didn’t play C until he was 30 and already an established all pro guard, then really only played 4 seasons there before moving back to guard until his final season…

So basically, beside the three odd cases above, there are only 7 HOF Centers

Dermontti Dawson
Jim Langer
Kevin Mawae
Jim Otto
Jim Ringo
Dwight Stephenson
Mike Webster

Of these, only two played after 1990… so the position is extremely devalued

Of the HOF Centers, only two were 1st Round picks, but those were Matthews and Bednarik, so neither were really drafted as true C’s
Otto was a weird AFL draft guy, so he doesn’t count at all… The two most recent, Dawson and Mawae, were both second round picks….

But that’s too small a sample and really too old to draw any conclusions…
So lets look at Aa list of recent Centers who may make the HOF or at least were pro bowl/all pro level
Ill add Dawson and Mawae to:
Matt Birk
Kevin Glover
Olen Kreutz
Nick Mangold
Tom Nalen
Jeff Saturday
Max Unger
Alex Mack
Jason Kelse
Maurkice Pouncey

Looking at where these exceptional centers were drafted:

Maurkice Pouncey -1st Round
Nick Mangold -1st Round
Alex Mack -1st Round

Max Unger -2nd Round
Kevin Glover -2nd Round
Dermontti Dawson -2nd Round
Kevin Mawae -2nd Round

Olen Kreutz -3rd Round

Matt Birk -6th Round
Jason Kelse -6th Round
Tom Nalen -7th Round

Jeff Saturday - UDFA



Its easy to conclude that while the Center position is devalued, if you are looking for a top end Center, drafting one in the top two rounds is absolutely worthwhile… You can definitely find an average one later in the draft, and we should note that since Kelse was a sixth and from Philly, its possible we are thinking of that route, but realistically we probasbly should take one in the late first or 2nd
Just to add clarification, Dirt was drafted as a Guard coming out Kentucky. Steelers drafted Iron Mike’s purported replacement the same year in the 3rd round (Chuck Lanza) out Notre Dame. Terry Long lasted a couple more seasons at Guard, although Dirt played/started several games as a rookie. When Mike wasn’t retained in 89, Lanza then got beat out by Dawson in Latrobe as the starting Center. Dermontti never relinquished his spot thereafter.
 

Drink IRON City

KAYAK Champion who drives a LUXURY S10
Forefather
Contributor
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
30,497
Reaction score
30,793
Points
113
Location
between $2 short & ten buck two
Just to add clarification, Dirt was drafted as a Guard coming out Kentucky. Steelers drafted Iron Mike’s purported replacement the same year in the 3rd round (Chuck Lanza) out Notre Dame. Terry Long lasted a couple more seasons at Guard, although Dirt played/started several games as a rookie. When Mike wasn’t retained in 89, Lanza then got beat out by Dawson in Latrobe as the starting Center. Dermontti never relinquished his spot thereafter.

NOT very often you get to replace one HOFer directly with another.!


Salute the nation
 
Top