Butler: The 3-4 defense is ‘almost obsolete’

[antdrewjosh]

The 3-4 defense is becoming obsolete.

The Steelers have used the 3-4 defense since the 1982 season, and there are still 17 teams that call the 3-4 their primary defense. But the defense is dying a slow death because of the advent of the three-wide-receiver set. Defenses have responded with sub-package defenses with five and six defensive backs.

The Steelers alone ran 65 percent sub-package defenses a year ago.

“It’s almost obsolete,” Butler said. “The good thing about it is, it’s still versatile enough that you take your outside linebacker and make them defensive ends. They already know how to cover people, in terms of your pass coverage techniques. I’ve already taught that, so it helps us a little bit in terms of fire zone and stuff like that.”

It’s not just the Steelers who are going away from the traditional 3-4 alignment.

“I think the league is, I don’t think it’s just us,” Butler said. “I think everybody has to because of what people are doing. These guys are playing with four wide receivers probably more than anybody else has. Mostly, everybody in the league is playing with at least three wide receivers and a running back and a tight end. That’s been the predominate personnel group and as consequence, we have to match those guys. As a consequence, we’re in nickel coverage, nickel defense.”

Rest of the article


Butler: The 3-4 defense is ‘almost obsolete’ - http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2016/10/06/butler-3-4-defense-almost-obsolete/

 

[Hines57]

When you don't have bookend OLBs who can consistently pressure the QB, then yeah I'd agree. Works pretty good in Denver though

 

[antdrewjosh]

When you don't have bookend OLBs who can consistently pressure the QB, then yeah I'd agree. Works pretty good in Denver though

Denver is playing nickle too..it's just that at rush end they have Von Miller

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Whatever works.

 

[Litos]

So are we drafting a DE/OLB tweener next season?

 

[DBS1970]

I think the real problem with the 3-4 defense is that it's hard to get and keep all the personnel that you need to have a really good one together.

 

[Steelr4evr]

You have to have the talent to make it work. We don't. Our last 2 high draft pick LBs can't stay on the field and the rest can't get to the qb to save their life.

 

[Coryea]

Teams throw so much and use 3 and 4 wr sets the majority of the time you have to add a db which takes you out of your 3-4

 

[Ron Burgundy]

So are we drafting a DE/OLB tweener next season?

Every year baby, FIRST ROUND *******!!!!!
Maybe one of these years they'll get someone good who doesn't get hurt all the time.

 

[ark steel]

I think the real problem with the 3-4 defense is that it's hard to get and keep all the personnel that you need to have a really good one together.

Back in the day when only a few (maybe 2 or 3) teams were using it, it was easier to get the right talent at your draft spot without picking in the top 10. Now? Maybe, not so much.

 

[deljzc]

Good article in Sport Illustrated this week about the evolution of the "slot corner" and how that position has turned into a LB/S/CB hybrid and plays 60%-65% of snaps now a days.

Teams have to decide what they want from their slot defender and who comes off the field. Lots of different ways to go.

 

[Coach]

When you don't have bookend OLBs who can consistently pressure the QB, then yeah I'd agree. Works pretty good in Denver though

100% correct. We have two backup types starting at OLB.

 

[Hines57]

Denver is playing nickle too..it's just that at rush end they have Von Miller

Maybe now they are because Ware is out. When they have Ware and Miller on the field at the same time you're gonna see that 3-4.

 

[Coach]

So are we drafting a DE/OLB tweener next season?

As always depends on who is on the board. If the player at pick #32 is a more of a bottom 2nd round graded player, we might go for value and pick TE who can both block or catch, or a Flex DT/NT who can stack the run and rush the passer.

Let's see if Dupree and contribute. If he can't our need is magnified as this is likely Harrison's last season.

 

[Litos]

the hybrid LB/S can be a very useful player given that he could play a heavy nickel or a 3-4.

 

[Litos]

As always depends on who is on the board. If the player at pick #32 is a more of a bottom 2nd round graded player, we might go for value and pick TE who can both block or catch, or a Flex DT/NT who can stack the run and rush the passer.

Let's see if Dupree and contribute. If he can't our need is magnified as this is likely Harrison's last season.

yes, but if there are similar talent players available for those two positions: OLB/DE Vs TE, who would they get? I have to go with the first option, as Dupree even if he becomes a good player there's still one vacant spot. Harrison will retire, Moats isn't starter material, Jarvis well, see Moats, Chickillo still is a late rounder that hasn't made an impact

 

[Troglodyte]

So are we drafting a DE/OLB tweener next season?

No, I think he's saying 5 DB base defenses are the future.

 

[Coach]

yes, but if there are similar talent players available for those two positions: OLB/DE Vs TE, who would they get? I have to go with the first option, as Dupree even if he becomes a good player there's still one vacant spot. Harrison will retire, Moats isn't starter material, Jarvis well, see Moats, Chickillo still is a late rounder that hasn't made an impact

If the players have the same grade or very close to it, go with need in round one. OLB for me under these circumstances. Dupree must pan out.

 

[Litos]

No, I think he's saying 5 DB base defenses are the future.

True but a player like Su'a Cravens, Feeney or one of those Safeties that can play LB too are a dime a dozen and could be found in the 3rd or 4th round.
a player like Dupree won't last after early 2nd.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Maybe now they are because Ware is out. When they have Ware and Miller on the field at the same time you're gonna see that 3-4.

They play Ware and Miller at DE in their nickle and dime defense just like we do..

 

[Stryker]

We are a Nickel team, and have been for a few years. Davis was signed to be a S/CB/LB hybrid. We have speedy LBs and probably the fastest in the league with Shazier (though Spence was a burner too). The tweener players are going to be more prominent in the league moving forward with rangy TEs, pass catching RBs and slot WRs.

 

[steelerscotty]

"because of the advent of the three-wide-receiver set"

This statement is incorrect, or at least not a complete picture. Teams ran 3 receiver sets in the 80's (Miami, Denver, SD) and I can remember the Steelers doing it occasionaly in the Late 70's with Swann, Stallworth and Jim Smith. The difference is with the rule changes and the type of talent occupying the other positions.

Used to be the TE position was first and foremost an extra lineman. Guys like Kellen Winslow for the Chargers were the exception, not the rule. Now it's the other way around. Most teams would still employ a 2-back set when they went 3-wide, and the backs were runners, for the most part, with a lead blocking fullback. Also, it used to be that a guy going over the middle was risking life and limb. Teams could keep their base defense and just cream whomever came over the middle. Now, any beeyotch can run the inside slant because the linebackers and safeties can't punish them. The rule changes have forced defenses to counter with smaller, quicker players. This, combined with the shift away from power running attacks has more to do with it than any specific formation.

 

[madinsomniac]

Ilbs are basically safties these days anyhow... The 43 and 34 are both almost obsolete as traditionally played...

 

[Coryea]

They like to play what they call the "dude" defense with 1-safety, 4 CB's, 4Lbs and 2 DL.

 

[Litos]

They like to play what they call the "dude" defense with 1-safety, 4 CB's, 4Lbs and 2 DL.

The dude abides