Ben, Brown and Bell made a bad coach and team look good.

[black and gold apex]

Every other team know what we run and we never come into a game with a different scheme. Tomlin has not proven he can change depending on who we are playing let alone change anything in a game going wrong. Reality we have seen this type coaching more than not from Steelers

 

[Coryea]

Or clean up the coaching errors being made.

Hahaha, come on, it's never the scheme, ever, it's always the players.

 

[Coryea]

Or just clean up the mistakes being made

Like calls not getting in from the sideline quick enough? One of our 2 DL always being doubled, the coaches not knowing where the helmet with the green dot it? putting 10 guys on the field?

 

[Tibs]

Like calls not getting in from the sideline quick enough? One of our 2 DL always being doubled, the coaches not knowing where the helmet with the green dot it? putting 10 guys on the field?

Thank God we have a HC, and assistant HC, a DC/OLB coach, a DL coach, an ILB coach, a secondary coach AND a Senior Defensive Assistant / secondary coach up in the booth, to make sure things go smoothly.

 

[Coryea]

Thank God we have a HC, and assistant HC, a DC/OLB coach, a DL coach, an ILB coach, a secondary coach AND a Senior Defensive Assistant / secondary coach up in the booth, to make sure things go smoothly.

They are all doing their job LOL.

We've turned over the coaches, except one.
We've turned over the talent, we have 8 1st round picks on that side of the ball now.
So it's either the HC or the scheme, the HC always says the scheme is not the problem, well that leaves one constant.

 

[Coryea]

Thank God we have a HC, and assistant HC, a DC/OLB coach, a DL coach, an ILB coach, a secondary coach AND a Senior Defensive Assistant / secondary coach up in the booth, to make sure things go smoothly.

They are all doing their job LOL.

We've turned over the coaches, except one.
We've turned over the talent, we have 8 1st round picks on that side of the ball now.
So it's either the HC or the scheme, the HC always says the scheme is not the problem, well that leaves one constant.

 

[Hines57]

They are all doing their job LOL.

We've turned over the coaches, except one.
We've turned over the talent, we have 8 1st round picks on that side of the ball now.
So it's either the HC or the scheme, the HC always says the scheme is not the problem, well that leaves one constant.

Brilliant analysis Tommy. Agree on this. Tomlin has had everyone around him replaced and they've worked hard to rebuild the line for Ben and the running game and from that point on they've failed to get the pieces on defense to make this defense another Steel curtain. That falls on the front office and someone should be replaced. They can't expect to do the same thing every year and get a different result.

 

[Vader]

Brilliant analysis Tommy. Agree on this. Tomlin has had everyone around him replaced and they've worked hard to rebuild the line for Ben and the running game and from that point on they've failed to get the pieces on defense to make this defense another Steel curtain. That falls on the front office and someone should be replaced. They can't expect to do the same thing every year and get a different result.

When Tomlin gets 11 1st round picks on defense you'll start seeing the results...

 

[Hines57]

When Tomlin gets 11 1st round picks on defense you'll start seeing the results...

OBBBBBBeously Mikey Coolshades isn't going to change how he attacks on defense. We need to change coach's to get one who will use his personnel he has been given.

 

[antdrewjosh]

So we drafted Bush because he was a player of need at a vital position and we aren't going to give him time to make mistakes and grow into his position?? He was also at fault along with chick on the long TD run. Chick gave up contain and Bush as the back side LB was supposed to have the cutback. Football 101 for their respective positions. To me that's on players. But I know I'm in the minority on this

 

[antdrewjosh]

Also on Russel 3rd and 16 Heyward arguably your best defensive player gave up his gap on a 5 man rush giving Wilson a lane to shoot thru. Again Gap integrity is football 101 for his position.

 

[bermudasteel]

That is because at the end of the day we are Steelers fans, and children of God. Easy to lose sight of this in our everyday life. I fail at times... And then i remind myself ... rewind myself.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

Excellent post.

Maybe against mediocre to bad teams. You won’t beat the good teams or succeed in the playoffs with that atrocious scheme. It’ll be exposed immediately and has been.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, how do you propose we 'stop the run AND pass' from one formation??? It is not an easy task, but the Nickel 2 (DL) 4 (LB) and 5 (DB) is the closest solution you're going to get ESPECIALLY when there are multiple WRs, a TE and HBs in the flats and seams.

The problem, IMHO, is not just personnel - it's scheme. When a team runs drag/crossing patterns and the defense runs man-to-man - what is the result? WRs get open crossing the field by either rubs or bumps. If you play zone on that scheme - you leave huge windows up the seam for TEs and and WRs.

If you replace Bud and TJ as edge rushers - are you going to ask Alalua and Buggs to over the flats or a screen play? Even if all 4 crash the pocket your secondary is still going to have to figure man or zone coverage to counter the offensive play - the wrong guess equates to a huge gain over the top w/ single-high safety coverage...

No excuses, but this is why they get paid the big bucks.

 

[bermudasteel]

So we drafted Bush because he was a player of need at a vital position and we aren't going to give him time to make mistakes and grow into his position?? He was also at fault along with chick on the long TD run. Chick gave up contain and Bush as the back side LB was supposed to have the cutback. Football 101 for their respective positions. To me that's on players. But I know I'm in the minority on this

Yes we are. The players have to make the plays.

To hell be damned, if our QB's throw a pass that hits WR's in the hands and a catch isn't made - BLAME THE COACHES. Seems to me that said WR rode the bench after that...

I like the idea of wearing our away uni's, at home, during September. Let the competition feel the heat...

 

[bermudasteel]

Also on Russel 3rd and 16 Heyward arguably your best defensive player gave up his gap on a 5 man rush giving Wilson a lane to shoot thru. Again Gap integrity is football 101 for his position.

Coach Cowher would have ran on the field and tackled him...

 

[Steelworth]

Also on Russel 3rd and 16 Heyward arguably your best defensive player gave up his gap on a 5 man rush giving Wilson a lane to shoot thru. Again Gap integrity is football 101 for his position.

What's the bigger issue to you, a guy giving up his gap or the scheme calling to rush 5 and not having at least 2 of them spy Wilson when they need 16 yards, knowing he's a great running QB?

 

[Hoot]

Excellent post.



So, how do you propose we 'stop the run AND pass' from one formation??? It is not an easy task, but the Nickel 2 (DL) 4 (LB) and 5 (DB) is the closest solution you're going to get ESPECIALLY when there are multiple WRs, a TE and HBs in the flats and seams.

The problem, IMHO, is not just personnel - it's scheme. When a team runs drag/crossing patterns and the defense runs man-to-man - what is the result? WRs get open crossing the field by either rubs or bumps. If you play zone on that scheme - you leave huge windows up the seam for TEs and and WRs.

If you replace Bud and TJ as edge rushers - are you going to ask Alalua and Buggs to over the flats or a screen play? Even if all 4 crash the pocket your secondary is still going to have to figure man or zone coverage to counter the offensive play - the wrong guess equates to a huge gain over the top w/ single-high safety coverage...

No excuses, but this is why they get paid the big bucks.

Formation alternative: drop an ILB and insert Hargrave. 3-3-5 vs. the spread packages. Hargrave will help keep the MLB jersey clean against the run. You still have 2 OLB's...one can rush and one can drop. This gives a pretty standard 4 man rush which has enough beef to pressure the pocket. You now have 5 dbs. On any given play there are, at most, 5 eligible receivers.

Scheme: Learn to recognize opposing WR's and pass off the coverage appropriately.

Tomlin/Butler clearly prioritize speed and seem to think that speed is a panacea for everything. Speed does not overcome bad fundamentals.

 

[bermudasteel]

Formation alternative: drop an ILB and insert Hargrave. 3-3-5 vs. the spread packages. Hargrave will help keep the MLB jersey clean against the run. You still have 2 OLB's...one can rush and one can drop. This gives a pretty standard 4 man rush which has enough beef to pressure the pocket. You now have 5 dbs. On any given play there are, at most, 5 eligible receivers.

Scheme: Learn to recognize opposing WR's and pass off the coverage appropriately.

Tomlin/Butler clearly prioritize speed and seem to think that speed is a panacea for everything. Speed does not overcome bad fundamentals.

No argument from me on that...

 

[Coryea]

Also on Russel 3rd and 16 Heyward arguably your best defensive player gave up his gap on a 5 man rush giving Wilson a lane to shoot thru. Again Gap integrity is football 101 for his position.

Yes Heyward ****** up, no debating that, but you still had 2 DL rushing, and no one spying Russel, everyone knows he can run, it's not like we were going after Brees or Rivers. If you have 3 DL and Watt rushing, you can spy Wilson with Bush or Barron. Players **** up in every scheme, doesn't mean you don't use a scheme that might be more effective.

Can anyone tell me one downside to using 3 Dlinemen? It's not like we have world beaters at LB that we can't take one off the field.

 

[21STEELERS21]

This post seems premature, we haven't seen much football without the Trio. Maybe the Trio was preventing us from playing Steeler football.
Hard nose top 5 physical defense, pound it running game and serviceable passing game. Rudolph reminds me of Neil O Donnell and he started
a Super Bowl for us.

 

[bermudasteel]

This post seems premature, we haven't seen much football without the Trio. Maybe the Trio was preventing us from playing Steeler football.
Hard nose top 5 physical defense, pound it running game and serviceable passing game. Rudolph reminds me of Neil O Donnell and he started
a Super Bowl for us.

Bannable - Neil O'Donnell comparison.

 

[slashsteel]

Bannable - Neil O'Donnell comparison.

Until that SB he was a decent system QB with low INT percentage.

I think he is somewhere between lady and Neil. Move the chains type. Which doesn't have to be bad....

 

[Vader]

The problem is the scheme. Why are you rushing 5? You can run prevent if you just need to keep them from getting a long 1st down. Yes, if all 5 guys hold their lanes they probably don't get that many yards. But why risk it? It's 3 and 16 and they are leading. They aren't going for it on 4th down if they don't pick up 13+ yards. They play a 2 man DL a lot but when it's time to set back they go with 5 rushers. It literally makes no sense.

BTW they also played man behind their 5 man rush. The defenders all have their backs to the QB. WHY???? Why are they not playing a zone with a spy on Wilson? They know he is running it.

Yes, the defender got out of his lane. But that doesn't mean the scheme was good. Both can be bad at the same time. Coaches should put players into the correct positions. You run schemes that will allow your players to succeed. Tomlin left his secondary out to dry. If the front 5 didn't play it perfectly then there is no one between Wilson and the 1st down. They got 15 yards on 3rd and 16 because the secondary couldn't get to him in time because of a horrible scheme.

 

[bermudasteel]

Until that SB he was a decent system QB with low INT percentage.

I think he is somewhere between lady and Neil. Move the chains type. Which doesn't have to be bad....

Well, I'm crazy. I think the advantage Mason has is his #1 WR, from college, is on the roster and will be on the field. Coach Fitchner better be installing plays from their old playbook stat!!!

Ok, my rant is over and I'm ready for a drink now...

 

[antdrewjosh]

I get what you guys are saying but just because you put a spy on him doesnt mean it guarantees we get him down. It still comes down to execution. A 5 man rush covering all the escape routes in theory is just as good as a spy if executed.

 

[Hoot]

Also on Russel 3rd and 16 Heyward arguably your best defensive player gave up his gap on a 5 man rush giving Wilson a lane to shoot thru. Again Gap integrity is football 101 for his position.

Heyward starts the play over center in a 2 point stance. He is playing like an LB. Tuitt is a 3 technique (outside shade of the guard). Baron is on his feet playing a very slight outside shade on the LG. Tuitt and Baron both attack their respective B gaps. This means Cam has to play both A-gaps. The only guy behind Cam in the middle is Edmunds who rolls outside to pick up a receiver. There is nothing behind Cam here.

So, my question would be was Cam supposed to stack, peek and shed the OC (i.e., a 2 gap control) or was he supposed to penetrate one of the A gaps. I do not know, but the fact that he starts in a 2 point stance and charges upfield immediately tells me he wasn't in a stack and shed mode. More over, Bud starts his stunt before Wilson takes off. He starts as soon as Baron is upfield. That tells me Cam expected Bud would be looping behind him which give me more reason to believe that Cam was responsible for 1, not 2 gaps. The LG passes Barron off and picks up Dupree. OC gets the better of Cam and pushes him wide. So, yea, both Cam and Dupree get beat on the play.

But, to Vader's point, this doesn't mean the scheme was sound. Two guys on the play had their hand in the dirt - Tuitt and Watt. Cam is playing like an LB shooting a gap, not a stack and shed technique. That leaves an unaccounted for Gap...rather, it relies on an LB to loop over to that lane. In order for him to do that, Barron has to attract the block of the LT and LG. He doesn't.

So, what you end up with is 5 big O linemen (that is six gaps to honor BTW) and 5 Defenders. Remember, Edwards rolled out of the middle of the field to cover. Russel saw it and 5 Bigs beat 2 Bigs (one playing LB mechanics) and 3 LBs. Schematically speaking, the numbers were on Russel's side to make a big run. I doubt it was planned, but he saw it and took it. Its 3rd and 16 with the game on the line and these coaches pulled a soft middle stunt package against a damn fine runner under center. 5 blockers on 5 defenders - six total running lanes.


EDIT: BTW, the A gap that Dupree would have been responsible for was the one Russel went through, not Cam's Gap. not exonerating Cam, just saying that he took the other "A" gap.