Ben and Mason's First Five Games Comparison

[Steelworth]

Ben is one of the greatest Quarterbacks to ever play the game, period. I don't care my age, or who my favorite team is -- he's year-in & year-out always making chicken salad out of chicken **** or when he's had the surrounding cast, he's produced multiple 6 TD games, multiple perfect passer rating games etc. He threw probably the greatest pass in Super Bowl history behind perhaps the worst OL in Super Bowl history w/ barely a running game threat. His 2005 playoff run as a second-year player was the stuff of legend. He's made some throws on the run to AB that were so pinpoint accurate you have to re-watch them to make sure what you just saw was real. I recently read he's one of a handful of QBs to have among the most 3+ TD games in his career. Yes, his first SB sucked and his third SB was underwhelming (for our standards), but like has been said, the guy is getting fitted for a gold jacket when he hangs them up. I know some people don't like to compare eras, but Ben Roethlisberger could play play in any era and succeed IMHO.

I heard recently that Aaron Rodgers had his first perfect passer rating game and they were slobbering all over his nuts about it. Really, Aaron? Ben's been there, done that probably a decade ago (or more) now.

*climbs down from Big Ben's own nuts*

 

[GMC]

Please quote those posts because I don't see them

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These are just in this thread. I'm not going to dig through all the others for you. As I stated before, there is no comparison between the two, but for some reason people feel the need to try.

I don't need a comparison. After observing past few seasons Ben did not give his 100%, he created retirement noise at the end of seasons, but whenever team drafted a legitimate QB, he changed his song and created more news. Apart from this, he developed monster in AB, by excessive feeding the ball only to him, I remember in a game for record purpose he throwed the ball to AB even we were in a position to kill the time. It eventually destroyed the environment of locker room.

I am really vexed with his injuries in middle of the game and leaving the game to Landry Jones type guys, BTW he only recommended Landry Jones I believe.

His injury in this season also, I feel he cheated the team by not giving proper information and not giving any heads up. Usually, I will give benefit of doubt on this, but as per my past observations with him, I believe he throwed the team in jeopardy. I feel Ben no different than AB and Bell.

Many ppl may not agree, but this is my feeling.

We need to move on Ben and look for Mason or other Franchise QB. We already wasted many seasons and gave walkthrough to cheats to get many Superbowls.

If we still look for Ben, we will loose even more precious time, we will be end up like 2nd most SB winning team.


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Ben was clearly better after 5 games, but so what, it’s five games. If Rudolph is the eventual successor, my guess is he’ll never hit the highs Ben did, but he also won’t hit the lows (5 int games). He might not have to be as good as Ben to win as much or more than Ben did. What made Ben sometimes great was also what made him not so great other times. Rudolph might eventually be the QB that is never great, but consistently very good,

Lots of factors to consider, you can argue that Ben had better weapons to throw to his rookie year, Ward and a big deep threat in Burress who gave Ben a greater ability to make big plays downfield. Some of Rudolph's receivers have potential but they're young and not yet as seasoned as the Ward/Burress combination. Considering who Mason has had to work with he's actually doing pretty well.

Ben drafted 11 overall and Rudolph drafted 76 overall. Given the similarities in stats through their first handful of starts, I think its something to appreciate what we're getting out of Rudolph. He is less talented and skilled than Ben, while having less talent at TE, WR, RB, and coaching positions.

 

[madinsomniac]

These are just in this thread. I'm not going to dig through all the others for you. As I stated before, there is no comparison between the two, but for some reason people feel the need to try.

You are stretching... outside of one or two outliers the absolute consensus is that ben is the better qb now, was a better talent then, and that rudolph has a lot to work on, however Rudolph is doing a hell of a lot better than his detractors are claiming

All these comparisons are simply to show that his first few games look very simular to more talented and successful qbs than the guys hating on him care to admit... not that he is as good as ben, just that his results have been rather comparable in many ways... well except one... early in bens career people tried to take away the short stuff because thats the way you play young qbs... ben went deep every chance he got...

Rudolph’s tape in college shows a big play qb who didn’t try to nickle and dime up the field, and teams have limited our mid to deep stiff well these games... as the book on him shows he is patient enough to take the short stuff and not make mistakes forcing it, teams will inevitably take that away... then its just a matter if he can take the deep stuffand the mid range stuff... then we will have a better picture of where he is at right now

Nobody credible believes that if ben were healthy Rudolph would be close to challenging him right now..

That doesn’t mean we cannot win with Mason though... remember Trent Dilfer once won a super bowl... anything is possible

 

[GMC]

You are stretching... outside of one or two outliers the absolute consensus is that ben is the better qb now, was a better talent then, and that rudolph has a lot to work on, however Rudolph is doing a hell of a lot better than his detractors are claiming

All these comparisons are simply to show that his first few games look very simular to more talented and successful qbs than the guys hating on him care to admit... not that he is as good as ben, just that his results have been rather comparable in many ways... well except one... early in bens career people tried to take away the short stuff because thats the way you play young qbs... ben went deep every chance he got...

Rudolph’s tape in college shows a big play qb who didn’t try to nickle and dime up the field, and teams have limited our mid to deep stiff well these games... as the book on him shows he is patient enough to take the short stuff and not make mistakes forcing it, teams will inevitably take that away... then its just a matter if he can take the deep stuffand the mid range stuff... then we will have a better picture of where he is at right now

Nobody credible believes that if ben were healthy Rudolph would be close to challenging him right now..

That doesn’t mean we cannot win with Mason though... remember Trent Dilfer once won a super bowl... anything is possible

I'm stretching? Most, including myself, have said Mason has looked good so far. I'd be insterested to see all this hate you profess. I was stating there are too many trying to make him something he's not by comparing his stats/performance to Ben's first year.

 

[madinsomniac]

I'm stretching? Most, including myself, have said Mason has looked good so far. I'd be insterested to see all this hate you profess. I was stating there are too many trying to make him something he's not by comparing his stats/performance to Ben's first year.

Then i think you walked into a debate that has traveled over multiple threads and aren’t grasping whats being said... even in the posts you quoted nobody is really saying the rudolph is in Ben’s stratosphere... they are simply showing that ben with shackles on wasn’t compiling numbers much different than Rudolph is... it’s probably a better comparison with all the qbs in his age group though...

Ben is a hof type of qb who walked into a perfect situation for his development level that first year...
the vast majority of young qbs need development time that stretches years... even the young starters often have limited offensive schemes for years...

Aaron rodgers had years behind Favre to work out the multiple issues that led a lot of people to think he would bust... Brees literally got given up on the year before it finally clicked for him... Bradys arm strength coming out of college was less than Rudolph’s .. his upside was supposed to be a brian griese type... even his early years he simply game managed...

I don’t think comparing Rudolph to those players is trying to say he will be those players... justcthat 5 games in, you simply cannot make a definitive judgment

 

[GMC]

Then i think you walked into a debate that has traveled over multiple threads and aren’t grasping whats being said... even in the posts you quoted nobody is really saying the rudolph is in Ben’s stratosphere... they are simply showing that ben with shackles on wasn’t compiling numbers much different than Rudolph is... it’s probably a better comparison with all the qbs in his age group though...

Ben is a hof type of qb who walked into a perfect situation for his development level that first year...
the vast majority of young qbs need development time that stretches years... even the young starters often have limited offensive schemes for years...

Aaron rodgers had years behind Favre to work out the multiple issues that led a lot of people to think he would bust... Brees literally got given up on the year before it finally clicked for him... Bradys arm strength coming out of college was less than Rudolph’s .. his upside was supposed to be a brian griese type... even his early years he simply game managed...

I don’t think comparing Rudolph to those players is trying to say he will be those players... justcthat 5 games in, you simply cannot make a definitive judgment

I see what you’re saying, and if that were strictly the case I wouldn’t have said a word. However, there are those that take every opportunity to minimize Ben’s accomplishments and this is yet another opportunity to take a swipe.

 

[Litos]

These are just in this thread. I'm not going to dig through all the others for you. As I stated before, there is no comparison between the two, but for some reason people feel the need to try.

Thanks, i meant just this thread

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[Litos]

These are just in this thread. I'm not going to dig through all the others for you. As I stated before, there is no comparison between the two, but for some reason people feel the need to try.

Lety me say that from those you quoted the only one that looks like dumping on Ben is steelerfromindia , everybody else agrees Rudolph is not at Ben's level and probably won't ever be but he can be good enough to win if he develops correctly

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[Vader]

If everyone agrees that Ben is a HOF QB and that Rudolph may end up a good QB then why compare them at all? I understand that the caveat is always given that "I'm not comparing them" but when you use both of them and put their stats up you are comparing them. That's the entire point.

Fact is there is no comparison. Tom's already pointed this out but Ben played in a different era in his first 5 games. He also didn't play 2 of the worst teams in the history of the NFL (bungles and dolphins) in those first 5 games. They weren't good that year but they weren't historically bad.

If you want to make a case for how good Rudolph is playing then compare him to players of today.

 

[Coryea]

Ben walked into a perfect situation? There were players around him for sure, but he still had to get them the ball. Just because he had Ward and Burress, doesn't mean you just throw the ball up for grabs and they come down with it. AB is considered by many to be the best WR in Steelers history, but his stats sucked when Ben wasn't QB. Look at the game in Miami, Ben's first ever start, horrible weather, **** game and he gets out of the pocket and fires a strike to Ward at the pylon where only Ward could catch it. It wouldn't have mattered who the WR was, the ball was where it needed to be.
I'd say Mason walked into a pretty good situation, an offense that runs a ton of shotgun in a passing era, with one of the best Olines in the NFL, and up until this year one of the best young WR's in the game.

 

[Slash#10]

Different Era is an interesting point. Because, in the 2004 Era the Steelers Passing Offense end up ranked #28 in passing yards.

Guess where Pittsburgh currently ranks at the moment??? If you said #28 you'd guess correctly.

This isn't following the only Ben and Mason passing, but it speaks to the Steelers offense as a whole. They are both maintaining the status quo in either era. At least by this statistic.


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[Vader]

Different Era is an interesting point. Because, in the 2004 Era the Steelers Passing Offense end up ranked #28 in passing yards.

Guess where Pittsburgh currently ranks at the moment??? If you said #28 you'd guess correctly.

This isn't following the only Ben and Mason passing, but it speaks to the Steelers offense as a whole. They are both maintaining the status quo in either era. At least by this statistic.


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You're wrong. They are actually 27th right now. But again the season isn't over. And yards passing counts YAC not how far the ball travels in the air.

Also they were 9th in PPD (points per drive) in Ben's first year. Right now they are 21st in PPD.

Fact is that Ben was 22 years old and a rookie. Comparing him to a 2nd year 24 year old QB after 5 games seems silly to me. Ben had won a SB by the time he was 24. So let's compare that if you want to really compare them.

 

[IndySteel]

I don't need a comparison. After observing past few seasons Ben did not give his 100%, he created retirement noise at the end of seasons, but whenever team drafted a legitimate QB, he changed his song and created more news. Apart from this, he developed monster in AB, by excessive feeding the ball only to him, I remember in a game for record purpose he throwed the ball to AB even we were in a position to kill the time. It eventually destroyed the environment of locker room.

I am really vexed with his injuries in middle of the game and leaving the game to Landry Jones type guys, BTW he only recommended Landry Jones I believe.

His injury in this season also, I feel he cheated the team by not giving proper information and not giving any heads up. Usually, I will give benefit of doubt on this, but as per my past observations with him, I believe he throwed the team in jeopardy. I feel Ben no different than AB and Bell.

Many ppl may not agree, but this is my feeling.

We need to move on Ben and look for Mason or other Franchise QB. We already wasted many seasons and gave walkthrough to cheats to get many Superbowls.

If we still look for Ben, we will loose even more precious time, we will be end up like 2nd most SB winning team.


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Hey, have you ever been bitten by a snake? They say that’s the number one cause of death in India.

 

[Slash#10]

Any and all players playing the same position can be compared. Everyone compares Tomlin to Cowher, to Noll. Because they fulfill the same job. No matter of their philosophical differences or approaches.

2 qbs playing for the same franchise can certainly be compared regardless of the difference in skill set, abilities, successes and failures. If Mason gets the job done with his running backs having 13 receptions a game. So be it. It's not flashy but it's what he has been most consistent.

Peyton and Brady was always compared, because they were both QBs... Mason will always be compared to Ben until he is replaced.

You're wrong. They are actually 27th right now. But again the season isn't over. And yards passing counts YAC not how far the ball travels in the air.

Also they were 9th in PPD (points per drive) in Ben's first year. Right now they are 21st in PPD.

Fact is that Ben was 22 years old and a rookie. Comparing him to a 2nd year 24 year old QB after 5 games seems silly to me. Ben had won a SB by the time he was 24. So let's compare that if you want to really compare them.

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[Vader]

Any and all players playing the same position can be compared. Everyone compares Tomlin to Cowher, to Noll. Because they fulfill the same job. No matter of their philosophical differences or approaches.

2 qbs playing for the same franchise can certainly be compared regardless of the difference in skill set, abilities, successes and failures. If Mason gets the job done with his running backs having 13 receptions a game. So be it. It's not flashy but it's what he has been most consistent.

Peyton and Brady was always compared, because they were both QBs... Mason will always be compared to Ben until he is replaced.

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Nobody compared Tomlin or Cowher to Noll. It's silly. I've never seen one person on here try to compare either of them to Noll... not once. And I've been on Steeler boards since the internet was invented and never seen it.

Also comparing Brady to Manning makes sense since they competed against each other and were drafted within a few years of each other. Comparing a HOF QB that won a SB in his 2nd year to a QB on a .500 team that won't win the SB in his 2nd year is ridiculous. So let's compare there 2nd years... do you really want to do that? Really?

 

[GMC]

How do the stats compare now?