Are we built to win? A salary cap observation. Its not going to be easy

[Coach]

Are we built to win? A salary cap observation.

If you're asking me, the most important positions to be strong in order are as follows:

Quarterback, Pass Rusher, Left Tackle, Cornerback, and after that you can argue ( I say WR next ) ...but you can't argue on draft day and in free agency, the best players are these positions get paid!

Yet our top 8 highest paid players are:

QB Ben Roethlisberger
ILB Lawrence Timmons
WR Antonio Brown
C Maurkice Pouncey
DE Cameron Heyward
G David DeCastro
TE Heath Miller
S Mike Mitchell

The Steelers seem to allocate a large percentage of their cap to the not as important positions like Center, Guard, Inside linebacker, Tight End.

Now to my main point, by allocating the most money at these positions, we are not in a position to obtain the best in free agency at Corner Back and Pass Rusher. It's really not that hard to find a decent G, C, ILB or TE in free agency.

So for us, the draft is the key to obtaining our most needed positions, which are also the most impactful. Getting a premier Pass rusher or Corner picking 25th is not easy. If our needs were G, TE or C, no problem.


In closing, who the Steelers gave the most money to is an obstacle to winning our next Super Bowl with Ben. If we could somehow share shift the Money at ILB, and C, we could have premier pass rusher and Corner in free agency.

In the future I hope the Stellers pay better attention to who they give big time contracts to. Putting the money at the most important positions makes better sense.

 

[Coryea]

What pass rushers should they have given big money too? They gave big money to Woodley. They gave Cortez decent money, but that didn't pan out. They gave big money to the QB, Pass rusher (woodley), CB (cortez allen), so they did give money in the right places, just not to the right players, although no one was bitching when we gave that money to Woodley, he looked like he was going to be a beast for the next several seasons.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Isnt part of the reason we have been in Cap hell is because of Woodley?

Was he not a premier pass rusher when we gave him the contract?

 

[Coryea]

Isnt part of the reason we have been in Cap hell is because of Woodley?

Was he not a premier pass rusher when we gave him the contract?

Yep, but a big part was because we had to cut ties with him which accelerated his cap hits (I'm no cap guru so I could be wrong), it wouldn't have been as bad if he stayed, but I believe this will be the first season he's off our books.

 

[Coach]

What pass rushers should they have given big money too? They gave big money to Woodley. They gave Cortez decent money, but that didn't pan out. They gave big money to the QB, Pass rusher (woodley), CB (cortez allen), so they did give money in the right places, just not to the right players, although no one was bitching when we gave that money to Woodley, he looked like he was going to be a beast for the next several seasons.

Woodley and Worilds duped the Steelers. The Steelers gave one a fat contract to Woodley, who became fat literally and the other got franchise tag money for a year who wanted no part of football, only one big payday for a year. I was okay with letting Worilds go. He wasn't worth tag money. If he walked, we likley have a 3rd or 4th roudn comp pick

As a fan, it's hard to tell who enjoys playing and wants to keep playing. But the Steelers should have known a bit better. On a team, how hard it see who's into the culture of being an NFL warrior, and who is not?

Giving money to Allen was mystfying. He never proved much and was hurt a bit. A bad move. At least Woodley and WOrilds had proven ability.

Good over all point, the Steelers tried, and went 0 for 3 on some of the important positons in free agnecy.

 

[Coach]

Isnt part of the reason we have been in Cap hell is because of Woodley?

Was he not a premier pass rusher when we gave him the contract?

Not anymore. I think the " dead money " on Woodley was just for a year and the year is over.

 

[SteelerAl]

We're not in cap hell. We're in fine shape. We are approximately $6 million under the cap right now and will gain a lot of room by extending Timmons (with little to no "new" money) and by restructuring Ben and Cam Heyward.

I also don't buy the "positions of importance" list in the original post. Obviously QB is by far and away the most important, and we're all set there.

But left tackle is way over-rated. I've seen studies that show that teams that are successful over the long term by and large do not invest heavily in the left tackle position. Having a top-end left tackle is somewhat of a curse because you have to pay him so much. If you have a great QB that tends to get rid of the ball on time, it's much better if you can manage to get by with a "lesser" LT and invest the money elsewhere. It's just nowhere near as important as it once was because QBs (at least the top ones) don't hold the ball nearly as long as they used to do.

Furthermore, I just don't buy the idea that a difference-making player is any less of an asset because he plays center, safety or inside linebacker. I'll take a Polamalu or Luke Kuechly on my team any day. And a player like Pouncey is hugely valuable because he can do things (like pull and be a lead blocker on a screen pass) that other centers just can't do. If Ryan Shazier manages to reach his potential and becomes an every down linebacker that can blitz and also run with any tight end in the league, that is hugely valuable.

 

[Coach]

SteelerAl;221460
I also don't buy the "positions of importance" list in the original post. Obviously QB is by far and away the most important, and we're all set there.

But Al, the positions with the highest franchise amounts in the eyes of the NFL are the most important positions. How can you argue the other way? My point is we pay way too much to some spots, and could have used the money in free agency in more important positions, which also happen to be our biggest needs

But left tackle is way over-rated.

Would you rather have a stud LT, or a stud Center or Guard for the same money? LT is a key spot. You can't win with a bum there. Denver would be dead without Ryan Clady at LT.

Furthermore, I just don't buy the idea that a difference-making player is any less of an asset because he plays center, safety or inside linebacker. I'll take a Polamalu or Luke Kuechly on my team any day. And a player like Pouncey is hugely valuable because he can do things (like pull and be a lead blocker on a screen pass) that other centers just can't do. If Ryan Shazier manages to reach his potential and becomes an every down linebacker that can blitz and also run with any tight end in the league, that is hugely valuable.

I'd rather have stud CB and Pass rusher. Any day, and twice on Sunday. SO give me Rod Woodson and a pirme James Harrsion instead. As for Poucney, he's been injured 2x and could very well be on the other side of the hill already.

 

[SteelerAl]

But Al, the positions with the highest franchise amounts in the eyes of the NFL are the most important positions. How can you argue the other way? My point is we pay way too much to some spots, and could have used the money in free agency in more important positions, which also happen to be our biggest needs

This is so dumb. So you'd like us to spend say $25 million guaranteed ($63 million total) on a CB like Byron Maxwell in free agency (like the Eagles did)? That's a smart way to build a team? I'm really glad you're not our GM.

Would you rather have a stud LT, or a stud Center or Guard for the same money? LT is a key spot. You can't win with a bum there. Denver would be dead without Ryan Clady at LT.

You idiot. The only way to get a stud LT is to draft one. You can't get one in free agency because they are never available. So your strategy is to go 3-13 so you can draft high enough to get a stud LT? Awesome idea. By the way, Ryan Clady MISSED THE ENTIRE 2015 SEASON WITH AN INJURY. I guess the Broncos had a terrible season, right?

I'd rather have stud CB and Pass rusher. Any day, and twice on Sunday. SO give me Rod Woodson and a pirme James Harrsion instead. As for Poucney, he's been injured 2x and could very well be on the other side of the hill already.

The Steelers operate in the real world, not Madden. You seem to be really confused about that.

 

[POP]

This is so dumb. So you'd like us to spend say $25 million guaranteed ($63 million total) on a CB like Byron Maxwell in free agency (like the Eagles did)? That's a smart way to build a team? I'm really glad you're not our GM.




You idiot. The only way to get a stud LT is to draft one. You can't get one in free agency because they are never available. So your strategy is to go 3-13 so you can draft high enough to get a stud LT? Awesome idea. By the way, Ryan Clady MISSED THE ENTIRE 2015 SEASON WITH AN INJURY. I guess the Broncos had a terrible season, right?



The Steelers operate in the real world, not Madden. You seem to be really confused about that.

I think you have valid football point, but why do you feel the need to throw ad hominem attacks towards Coach? I know I am relatively new around here, but I don't see Coach attacking anyone but some of you seem to feel the need for name calling, etc. I just don't understand why that is.

 

[chipped ham]

"Would you rather have a stud LT, or a stud Center or Guard for the same money? LT is a key spot. You can't win with a bum there. Denver would be dead without Ryan Clady at LT."

The steelers have done fairly well without a "stud" left tackle. Also, if I'm not mistaken, clady missed the 2015 season(as has happened throughout his career) and Denver just won the super bowl.

 

[SteelerAl]

I think you have valid football point, but why do you feel the need to throw ad hominem attacks towards Coach? I know I am relatively new around here, but I don't see Coach attacking anyone but some of you seem to feel the need for name calling, etc. I just don't understand why that is.

I should be nicer. But it's pretty frustrating the way Coach just "throws up" his opinions all over this board when many of them are entirely misinformed...like saying we should trade Pouncey to save salary cap space or that the Broncos would be screwed without a player that missed the entire season...

If you are going to make yourself such a prominent part of the board, you've got to have your facts straight or you will face a bunch of criticism.

 

[Litos]

hey coach in another thread (yours by the way, that one about how you were cutting pouncey if you were GM to save cap money) I told you we could easily cut more than 20 Millions in restructures and extensions. We are not in cap hell, we have a QB and a kickass WR group, that's a huge start

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I think you have valid football point, but why do you feel the need to throw ad hominem attacks towards Coach? I know I am relatively new around here, but I don't see Coach attacking anyone but some of you seem to feel the need for name calling, etc. I just don't understand why that is.

And you wonder why we question why you and Coach are the same person. hahaha.

 

[ark steel]

I'd say the Steelers Left Tackle with little to no previous experience did fairly well through out the year and the playoffs. He wasn't getting the big bucks. The guy he replaced was the 32nd Cap hit for LT's in the NFL.

The top 2015 Cap hits for LT were D'Brickashaw Ferguson (NYJ), Branden Albert (MIA), Trent Williams (WAS), Ryan Clady (DEN), Joe Thomas (CLE), Duane Brown (HOU), Jason Peters (PHI), Jared Veldheer (ARI), Jermon Bushrod (CHI), William Beatty (NYG).

Only four of those are on Playoff teams. Guard and Center show about the same ratios for playoff teams.

I think if you spend a shitload on a QB, you can spend reasonable amounts across the OL and get better results than spending a boatload on an LT and having to make-do with others. If one guy is a weak link on the OL the whole thing can fall apart. The guy next to him has to cover for his issues, meaning he cant devote his full attention to his duties, which makes the guy next to him have to try to make up and on and on and on. it would be interesting to see each team ranked by the CAP space spent on the OL/DL/LB/DB groups over a few years to see how it works out for playoff expectations.

Interestingly enough, only 4 of the top 10 QB Cap hits made the playoffs, too. I would have expected that to be higher.

 

[TDX27]

Sure, you can look at the cap numbers for our team in any year and see a different configuration. Your best players and the players that have made it past their rookie contracts are going to be your largest hits. It doesn't mean their is a conscious effort to disregard team needs or what some view as the most important positions for a team. You try to keep your best players no matter what position they play. It's as simple as that.

 

[Steelerfan81]

According to the PG article today were 2 million over. But I have reached my limit of articles allowed per month so I couldn't tell you where they came up with such number.

 

[ark steel]

"Denver would be dead without Ryan Clady at LT."

Also, if I'm not mistaken, clady missed the 2015 season(as has happened throughout his career) and Denver just won the super bowl.

I find this ******* hilarious. Cant stop laughing.

 

[ianv2012]

I think Dave Bryan dealt with this argument already (similar argument against Steelers cap management), an excellent read for those concerned with our "supposed" cap issues.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2016/01/my-response-to-bill-barnwells-annual-slamming-of-the-steelers/

 

[CoolieMan]

the positions with the highest salaries league wide are important...but center and guard are fairly important also....

a list of the highest salaries on the team really doesn't show a lot if the amounts aren't listed...are the salaries of Pouncy and DeCastro out of line with other top guys at their position? Are other players in "important" positions just at a different point in their contracts or careers so their salaries just don't match up well right now....

Whole lot of details missing from this discussion...

The Steelers have used the #1 pick on OLB the last 3 years...seems it is a priority to them....DeCastro and Pouncy were #1 picks also, so you would expect them to have high salaries...Heath has been a solid contributor for years...so of course he is high on the list.....

 

[CoolieMan]

I think Dave Bryan dealt with this argument already (similar argument against Steelers cap management), an excellent read for those concerned with our "supposed" cap issues.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2016/01/my-response-to-bill-barnwells-annual-slamming-of-the-steelers/

a different espn viewpoint....

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-...fls-kings-of-offseason-contract-restructuring

 

[Coach]

I should be nicer. But it's pretty frustrating the way Coach just "throws up" his opinions all over this board when many of them are entirely misinformed...like saying we should trade Pouncey to save salary cap space or that the Broncos would be screwed without a player that missed the entire season...

If you are going to make yourself such a prominent part of the board, you've got to have your facts straight or you will face a bunch of criticism.

The fact they you think a center or a guard is even value to a corner or a pass rusher has me smiling. No name calling needed. I never said we could get a top Left tackle in free agency. Quit putting words in my mouth. I did say i wish we could share shift Pouncey and Timmons money else where. Key word wish and for the record I don' t play madden football. Techno bowl!

 

[Superman]

if Foster leaves, and I hope he doesnt, why not just move our china doll to LG and continue starting the proctologist at center?

 

[Litos]

if Foster leaves, and I hope he doesnt, why not just move our china doll to LG and continue starting the proctologist at center?

That sounds possible.

 

[chipped ham]

I find this ******* hilarious. Cant stop laughing.

Please, elaborate. Did Ryan clady play a single snap this season? He tore his acl back in March and was placed on the IR. Has Ryan clady missed time in the past due to injury? In 2013, he came down with a lisfranc foot sprain in week 2 and was placed on the IR. If I'm not mistaken, he also had a bum shoulder the year prior to that missing time in the 2012 season. Obviously, it's not a stretch to say that he's struggled with injuries throughout his career. How did the Broncos fare this past season? Well, they won the ******* super bowl, so I think we'd all agree that it's a pretty desirable outcome. So, in other words, they did just ok contrary to coach's vague generalization that you're going nowhere without a "stud" at the left tackle position.