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AB is my MVP

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SteelerSask2

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I know I know he won't be and he had a little pocket change less than Jullio Jones on the same amount of catches (though AB had 2 more TDs). But what a friggen season. I remember when Megatron was this thing of lore. He had one 1900 plus yard season and a big three year burst around it. AB has now put up 1500, 1600 plus and now 1800 plus. Unbelievable achievement and just over half of the yards thrown for the season by the guy who will win the MVP. Just sayin.
 
Ab should be MVP, but that ravens loss combined with Jones' season being slightly better will kill that talk
 
I agree. On an intellectual level, I'd say that because Jones played on a shity team, he probably got a lot more garbage time stats where as the Steelers were in need of almost every yard AB got.
 
SteelerSask said:
I agree. On an intellectual level, I'd say that because Jones played on a shity team, he probably got a lot more garbage time stats where as the Steelers were in need of almost every yard AB got.
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Intellectuals don't vote for the league MVP...... Imbecilic buffoons who love QBs and RBs do... the blinders will be great with those numbskulls...
 
You have to congratulate Jones as well. I mean we all know if Ben played the whole time AB would have the better yards stats. As great as a season as AB had it is even hard to believe someone had more yards.
 
no one has more catches in a two or 3 year span than brown does in 2013-14-15... a few have more or about the same yardage in a 3 year span, but not by much. its an unreal span... rivaled by the best of Calvin Johnston at 25-26 and 27, and Rice 30-32 and Harrison in his early 30's... the thing is, save for Johnson, who fell off a tad after that monster season, the others all had their best years around 30 to 32 years of age.... brown is 27
 
madinsomniac said:
no one has more catches in a two or 3 year span than brown does in 2013-14-15... a few have more or about the same yardage in a 3 year span, but not by much. its an unreal span... rivaled by the best of Calvin Johnston at 25-26 and 27, and Rice 30-32 and Harrison in his early 30's... the thing is, save for Johnson, who fell off a tad after that monster season, the others all had their best years around 30 to 32 years of age.... brown is 27
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You could make the argument Megatron had the best run considering he's the only WR to get those kind of stats without a HoF or future HoF QB. Although Brown is far from finished and still has the potential to be the best ever if he keeps this up like Rice and Harrison did into their 30s. Some of that falls on Ben's shoulders too though.
 
Unfortunately, he probably won't even be mentioned. All the talking heads who do the voting are already crowning Cam Newton. And of coarse Tom Brady will be considered in the running along with JJ Watts. Would not be surprised to see Peterson's name mentioned. I think both Ben and Brown should be in the discussion, but outside this board I don't see that happening.
 
I do think what AB has done over the last several years is amazing. I think he's probably my second favorite Steeler receiver behind Hines. However, I would say in my opinion that Brown doesn't create much outside of Ben. I think he and Ben have extraordinary chemistry and trust in one another, but without Ben, AB is far less threatening. Perhaps that's just because the level of competency drop-off between our starters and backups is so ridiculously enormous.

With Landry or Vick in at QB, did Brown do enough to make himself an easy target for them. Whether it was poor game-planning or piss poor execution on the part of the QB's (which just isn't an excuse). Brown needed to step up and basically paint a glaring target on his chest that even Vick could see. Instead, Brown had really mediocre stats, particularly with Vick. He needed to do better while Ben was out. What I find impressive is how much Ben does for Browns stat-line.

The fact that Brown flat out disappeared while Ben was out makes me wonder a bit about how he'd do for other QBs. I'm not saying he's not a great receiver, but we've seen how Ben can suddenly turn to DHB, or Wheaton or Bryant and instantly THEY become all stars. It seems to me that whoever Ben wants to be a hero immediately becomes a hero. It could be that the defense is just giving up coverage and Ben is finding those guys on those days. Regardless, that just proves the point that Ben is the guy finding the open receiver.

AB is a great receiver, but he still needs a world-class QB to get him the ball. A mediocre to poor QB turns AB into a good or even mediocre WR very quickly. I do believe Brown has more focus, determination and drive than just about any receiver we've seen in the Black and Gold for years, if not decades. We're certainly very fortunate to have him. He truly is an extraordinary asset to this team.
 
While I definitely agree that AB should be in the running for MVP, I'm not going to knock the national media and refer to them as "talking heads" for supporting Cam Newton as MVP. Newton certainly was not a "game manager" and is a legitimate MVP QB.

AB will be the team MVP, and is getting plenty of national attention as one of the league's best players... but with the record and stats put up this year, Newton is the legit MVP.
 
After the way Brown played when Ben was out, I'm not sure he should be the Steelers MVP.
 
coryea said:
After the way Brown played when Ben was out, I'm not sure he should be the Steelers MVP.
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Wrs cant catch a ball that isn't thrown to them... the 4 games Ben missed were the 4 lowest targeted games AB had. 9-6-8-8... only one of those games, the last, he had over 100 yards. we barely threw the ball with Vick and when we did his passes were not on time or accurate. Jones is a one read wonder. think about this the first three games in that stretch he had 23 targets... in the best game with ben he had 23 targets ...


Some points to ponder in the 7 games brown failed to crack 100 yards this year we went 3-4. Of those 3 wins, in the sand diego win, we had Vick throwing (or more aptly not throwing) the ball. Brown's 6 targets led the team but was easily the season low for him. The Arizona game had Landry Jones tossing the ball, but AB was triple covered. Jones wouldn't throw the ball to him, but Bryant had 137 yards and two TDs with the lax coverage on him. The final win came vs Cinci, where he did lead the team with 87 yards on & grabs, but the Bengals coverage on him allowed every other wr and heath to have pretty good games.
 
So what you're saying Mad, is that Ben is the MVP and Antonio is an amazing receiver who benefits from a great QB who can throw the ball to him 10 to 15 times a game.

Put it this way. Does Antonio Brown get any Pro Bowl votes AT ALL if his entire career is with the Browns?

How about Larry Fitzgerald 7 or 8 years ago? Or Megatron? Or Randy Moss in his prime?

And again, I'm not trying to take away from Brown here. Because honestly, I think all three of those guys physically have ridiculous advantages over Brown that he overcomes with work, quickness and some skills that they probably didn't or don't have. But the fact is, Antonio Brown playing for Cleveland isn't Antonio Brown playing for Pittsburgh.

It's a great relationship between two amazing athletes who have superb chemistry. So I guess what I want to be clear about is that I think Brown and Roethlisberger are the best duo in the game. I'd say that without reservation. And I expect Brown would be very nearly as amazing with a few other QBs in the league as well.
 
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I think it is just a synced situation. I don't think either Ben or AB do near as good without the other. Its about subtle reads on the route knowing what he will do as the defender is in a certain position. unfortunately, you will get some miss reads like in the Ravens game where Ben expected himn to cross the defenders leverage and AB didn't.
 
SteelerSask said:
I think it is just a synced situation. I don't think either Ben or AB do near as good without the other. Its about subtle reads on the route knowing what he will do as the defender is in a certain position. unfortunately, you will get some miss reads like in the Ravens game where Ben expected himn to cross the defenders leverage and AB didn't.
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I don't know about that, Ben did quite well before Brown, with Ward, then Holmes, then Wallace. Holmes and Wallace since left and didn't do much when they left here with other QB's.
 
It depends on. What does MV mean to you? For me, it's the player you can least afford to lose, and that's Ben. When Ben was out, Brown's game took a huge hit

If the question was who had the best season, its Brown all the way
 
wig said:
I do think what AB has done over the last several years is amazing. I think he's probably my second favorite Steeler receiver behind Hines. However, I would say in my opinion that Brown doesn't create much outside of Ben. I think he and Ben have extraordinary chemistry and trust in one another, but without Ben, AB is far less threatening. Perhaps that's just because the level of competency drop-off between our starters and backups is so ridiculously enormous.

With Landry or Vick in at QB, did Brown do enough to make himself an easy target for them. Whether it was poor game-planning or piss poor execution on the part of the QB's (which just isn't an excuse). Brown needed to step up and basically paint a glaring target on his chest that even Vick could see. Instead, Brown had really mediocre stats, particularly with Vick. He needed to do better while Ben was out. What I find impressive is how much Ben does for Browns stat-line.

The fact that Brown flat out disappeared while Ben was out makes me wonder a bit about how he'd do for other QBs. I'm not saying he's not a great receiver, but we've seen how Ben can suddenly turn to DHB, or Wheaton or Bryant and instantly THEY become all stars. It seems to me that whoever Ben wants to be a hero immediately becomes a hero. It could be that the defense is just giving up coverage and Ben is finding those guys on those days. Regardless, that just proves the point that Ben is the guy finding the open receiver.

AB is a great receiver, but he still needs a world-class QB to get him the ball. A mediocre to poor QB turns AB into a good or even mediocre WR very quickly. I do believe Brown has more focus, determination and drive than just about any receiver we've seen in the Black and Gold for years, if not decades. We're certainly very fortunate to have him. He truly is an extraordinary asset to this team.
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It's funny that you base this post on Browns stats with Vick, but where are the stats with Jones? They don't support the argument that Brown disappeared without Ben that's where.

coryea said:
After the way Brown played when Ben was out, I'm not sure he should be the Steelers MVP.
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Brown with Vick - 8 catches for 97 yards
Brown with Jones - 12 catches for 232 yards

So tell me again how Brown played when Ben was out? Vick threw late AND off target, couldn't have been much worse. Jones at least gave his receivers a chance by being on time and somewhat accurate. Brown doesn't NEED a HOF QB to put up good numbers, he just needs a competent one. Granted his numbers WITH Ben are out of this world good!
 
You're right. His numbers with Jones are better than I realized.

That's over 300 yards in 4 games. It looks to me like he did just fine. What's the complaint? That's 82.25 yards per game and averages out to more than a 1300 yard season which is extraordinary by any measure.

Yep - he's a stud. No arguments.
 
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I don't think it's fair to blame AB for "disappearing" without Ben as the QB. Instead, look at the circumstances and the skill and experience of the man throwing him the ball.

How many times during the Brown's game was AB double-covered? On his touchdown reception, AB was bracketed and Ben was able to thread the coverage and get the Ball to AB. While we become infuriated with the stupid throws Ben makes from time to time, he also had the balls and the experience to try and make that throw, giving AB the opportunity to make the catch.

When you threw Vick and Jones out there, I don't think either had the confidence or the ability to try and make the throws into the types of coverage AB is going to receive on a routine basis. And, unless the QB throws the ball in his direction, AB isn't going to have the opportunity to make the catch. If I was a defensive coordinator for the Steeler's opponent, I would certainly run my defense that way: double cover AB and make one of the other receivers (who have shown some skill but lack consistency) beat me.

This is just one of those situations where the QB and WR compliment each other perfectly... AB can find that crack in the double coverage and Ben has the "gunslinger" attitude necessary to fit the ball into those spaces. I won't blame AB for the fact that Vick doesn't have the accuracy to do so and Jones doesn't have the experience to do so.
 
wig said:
So what you're saying Mad, is that Ben is the MVP and Antonio is an amazing receiver who benefits from a great QB who can throw the ball to him 10 to 15 times a game.

Put it this way. Does Antonio Brown get any Pro Bowl votes AT ALL if his entire career is with the Browns?

How about Larry Fitzgerald 7 or 8 years ago? Or Megatron? Or Randy Moss in his prime?

And again, I'm not trying to take away from Brown here. Because honestly, I think all three of those guys physically have ridiculous advantages over Brown that he overcomes with work, quickness and some skills that they probably didn't or don't have. But the fact is, Antonio Brown playing for Cleveland isn't Antonio Brown playing for Pittsburgh.

It's a great relationship between two amazing athletes who have superb chemistry. So I guess what I want to be clear about is that I think Brown and Roethlisberger are the best duo in the game. I'd say that without reservation. And I expect Brown would be very nearly as amazing with a few other QBs in the league as well.
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what I am saying is that Vick was a crappy QB.. inaccurate and who doesn't throw till he sees the WR open... Because of that the coaching staff correctly put in a run first offense... You cant say brown is less valuable because the guys getting him the ball were that inept... if Ben had wrs who dropped every pass of his that wouldn't make him less valuable of a qb, nor would a center who snapped the ball over his head every play.... Brown did what no receiver has ever done on this team before this year, and did it under the best coverage the NFL could throw at him. he deserves the MVP... not the QB who missed a quarter of the season. he had 4 games of over 180 yards... and one of them almost topped 300 yards
 
At no point did I say or suggest Brown isn't amazing. And when you pointed out his numbers with Jones, I admitted that I was wrong about how well he did with the backup QB. I also haven't suggested that Ben ought to be the MVP over Brown. I'm just saying those two guys kinda go hand in hand. But I suppose that's pretty obvious. One's a receiver and the other is the Quarterback.

Regardless, when you look at Brown's cumulative 3 season output, you HAVE to be completely blown away by what he's accomplished. I'm wonder what Mike Wallace is doing right now.
 
wig said:
At no point did I say or suggest Brown isn't amazing. And when you pointed out his numbers with Jones, I admitted that I was wrong about how well he did with the backup QB. I also haven't suggested that Ben ought to be the MVP over Brown. I'm just saying those two guys kinda go hand in hand. But I suppose that's pretty obvious. One's a receiver and the other is the Quarterback.

Regardless, when you look at Brown's cumulative 3 season output, you HAVE to be completely blown away by what he's accomplished. I'm wonder what Mike Wallace is doing right now.
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Its funny, I was sitting in a bar out west a few weeks back and watched an analyst break down mike Wallace, who is getting open all the time, but doesn't have a QB who gets him the ball in stride.... you could see after one play where there was blown coverage and no one was within 20 yards of him and he was deeper than anyone else and the Minnesota QB overthrew him by a good ten yards he had the "WTF" look on his face.... you don't know what you got till its gone I guess... and Ben aint in minnesota
 
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong games, but the 4 games Ben missed, I'm showing Brown having 17 catches-235yards-0TD's.
That comes out to 4 catches, 58 yards, 0 TD's per game.
Balt-5 rec-42 yards
SD-3 rec-47 yards
Ariz-3 rec-24 yards
KC-6 rec-124 yards
 
I thought he had a big day against AZ which was Landry's best day as I recall. i know he had one big game with Jones on TV, and I was at the KC game. Martavis Bryant had a pretty good game that day. He gets 2000 easy if Ben plays all 16 games . Easy. The SD game alone could have been high 100's or low 200's. There defense is terrible.
 
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