• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

4pm deadline looms

In leaking the information (which is a bit of a surprise), the Steelers want to seem reasonable — even if it makes Bell look greedy. Whatever the details of the offer were, Bell gets $12.1 million this year (if/when he signs the tender) and either $14.52 million next year or a shot at the open market. If the Steelers weren’t willing to give Bell any guarantees beyond 2017 and likewise not willing to pay him $26.62 million or close to it this year, he made the right decision.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...offer-to-leveon-bell-with-incomplete-details/

Really? Not a surprise at all.
 
Good read:

https://overthecap.com/thoughts-leveon-bells-contract-offer/

Thoughts on Le’Veon Bell’s Contract Offer
Posted on July 19, 2017 by Jason Fitzgerald

Yesterday we looked at Kirk Cousins contract offer and today we’ll take a look at Le’Veon Bell’s basics which were reported on today by Tom Pelissero. Per Pelissero the offer included $30 million in the first two years of the contract and $42 million across three years. Unlike the Cousins offer, which was pretty weak by any standard, this seemed pretty strong and it is hard to see how Bell turned this one down so lets explore.

As a pure new contract the numbers would put Bell at $12+ million a year over a five year timeframe. That would be the largest APY for a running back since Adrian Peterson’s $14 million and change contract a few years back. From a new money standpoint the Bell metrics would surpass Peterson’s on the frontend numbers. They would also obliterate any recent veteran contract. Here are the 2 and 3 year comps:



Player 2 Year 3 year
Bell $30,000,000 $42,000,000
Peterson $29,280,000 $41,280,000
McCoy $21,050,000 $27,300,000
Martin $15,000,000 $21,750,000
Miller $14,000,000 $19,750,000
Ivory $12,500,000 $18,500,000
So not only is this offer pretty incredible by today’s standards, but historically it’s also pretty solid.

Like with Cousins we can also factor out the fact that he was set to already earn $12.1 million on the year to determine what he is earning purely in new money in the first two years of a new contract. Again these numbers would paint things in a pretty solid light and represent a small raise over Peterson’s numbers, which seem to be a baseline used in the offer.

Player 1 Year 2 Year
Bell $17,880,000 $29,880,000
Peterson $17,780,000 $29,280,000
McCoy $16,000,000 $21,050,000
Martin $8,000,000 $15,000,000
Miller $8,500,000 $14,000,000
Ivory $7,500,000 $12,500,000
Unlike Cousins, who is in a position to break the bank next year, it is hard to imagine Bell making over $18 million next season to justify passing this contract up. First of all the running back market is simply stagnant. Bell is far and away the best of the bunch, but we don’t have any players in the NFL making over $8.01 million a year. The high point year 1 payment in the NFL is McCoy at $16 million but he falls way short of Bell’s proposed two year “new money” earnings. So at best I would guess that Bell would break even if he hit free agency and his earnings between now and 2019 would probably fail to reach these proposed numbers.

Not only that but if the Steelers tag him again his salary next year will be just $14.52 million, well short of the number needed to break even. Again this was very different than Cousins. The Cousins offer basically built in the value of a transition tag and shortchanged him on the franchise tag. The two year offered to Bell is stronger than two tags and is the more traditional way things work when trying to make a sincere offer.

Secondly Bell is an injury risk and a suspension risk. Cousins’ position is more or less injury and age proof for a second contract. Bell’s is a high risk position and his history is terrible. He’s had multiple knee injuries and been suspended twice. Another injury and suspension is just going to hurt his value. From the standpoint of a suspension he would also stand to lose 1/17 ($712,941) for each week suspended. If he signed a long term deal with a signing bonus he would lose 1/17 of a much lower base salary and just 1/17th of 1/5th of his overall bonus paid in 2017.

So why would he turn this contract down? That is hard to say. About the only things that could really be at hand here are the issue of guarantees and payment timings. The Steelers organization offers very large signing bonuses relative to the majority of the NFL, but they don’t guarantee salary beyond that. For example Antonio Brown received $19 million as a signing bonus but not a penny more guaranteed. That’s simply doing business with the Steelers and you need to accept that when you sign with them.

Pittsburgh is also one of the stronger organizations when it comes to honoring contracts regardless of guarantees. The only team that is probably better in this regard is the Bengals, who often have even less favorable payment terms. The contract structure in Pittsburgh also helps since the cost to cut is high early on. This is how the league used to operate and Pittsburgh is one of the few who still does this way.

Pittsburgh’s standard contract also often contains a second year roster bonus earned in March. I guess it is possible, given Bell’s suspension potential, that they did not want to use that mechanism and preferred a full base salary which would be more open to recovery in the event of a long suspension.

Might the first year payment have been a little light? That is also possible, though Id imagine under any scenario it was going to not only be greater than what he is currently scheduled to earn but also bigger than McCoy’s $16 million. In any event the number was going to be more than he is set to earn now.

Obviously we aren’t privy to the entire offer but based on what is out there it is really hard to see why this contract did not work for Bell. It is highly doubtful that he will top it by signing next year and if guarantees are the issue well his best offer is going to come from the Steelers anyway next year and that will not include any fancy guarantees like we see elsewhere. I don’t really see the reward here for Bell but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
 
Really? Not a surprise at all.

Yes it it - it's sending a message to Bell by spilling the guts of the trade deal to the public - must want opinion to turn against him and make him sign

Putting the screws to him - maybe a little dirty trick, they never did this to Ben or AB......oh right, those guys had the team in mind when they signed their big contracts
 
Well that is more than what I would have offered....seems the Steeler's wanted to protect themselves while giving Bell elite money if he stayed clean and healthy....Props to the FO to sticking to their guns.....Throw the tag on again next season....We now have a 2 year window with Bell.
 
Sherman glad Bell refused to be 'bullied into a fluffed up' contract
Mitch Sanderson Jul 18, 2017 11:57 PM
Without fully guaranteed salaries, NFL contracts can be a misconceiving mess. Richard Sherman wants you to know that.

After Le'Veon Bell reportedly turned down a five-year deal worth $42 million over the first three years, Sherman applauded the Pittsburgh Steelers running back for making a stand for better value Tuesday night.


Bell has opted to play on his one-year, fully guaranteed $12.12-million franchise tag in 2017 instead of the deal reportedly offered by the Steelers. He said Monday he is willing to do what it takes to raise the running back market and help his fellow NFLers make what they deserve.

Related: Le'Veon Bell wants to take it upon himself to raise RB market

Sherman lauded Bell for having the courage and intelligence to not accept a contract that would tie him to the Steelers for five years, but only guarantee his salary for three, at best. The reports did not mention how much guaranteed money Bell would receive, making the claim that the contract would be worth $42 million over three years a tad misleading.


The Seattle Seahawks cornerback has been a leader in discussions for NFL players to earn better contracts, recently advising his fellow pros to prepare to strike to receive the salaries they deserve.

The Washington Redskins recently tried a similar tactic with franchise-tagged Kirk Cousins, releasing a statement that they offered the quarterback $53 million guaranteed, though he actually had leverage to make that money without a new deal.

Sherman glad Bell refused to be 'bullied into a fluffed up' contract
https://www.thescore.com/news/1335505
(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )
 
If the NBA and MLB can guarantee contracts the NFL can too. Its time to stop the shenanigans.. the most violent sport not guaranteeing contracts is a sham IMO.
 
Steelers’ offer to Bell was good, but not enough

Bell bets on himself despite decent offer from Steelers.

July 18. 2017 7:57PM


As the numbers - at least the supposed numbers - of what the Steelers were offering Le’Veon Bell in a contract extension trickle out, fans have shown their typical outrage.


According to Tom Pelissero of the NFL Network, the Steelers were offering Bell a deal that averaged $12 million per season that included $30 million in the first two seasons and $42 million over three years.

If the deal averaged $12 million and Bell was getting $42 million over the first three years, that means the final two years of the contract - we can assume it was a five-year deal - would have paid him $18 million.

And since the Steelers don’t typically put big guarantees into their contracts, what Bell was being offered was a deal that was heavily front loaded.

If that was the case, it’s no surprise he bet on himself and chose to play this season for the franchise tag value of $12.12 million.

As I have previously written, if Bell is franchised again by the Steelers next season, he will get at least $14 million guaranteed. That’s $26 million in guranteed money.

And if the Steelers choose not to place the franchise tag on him again next season, some other team will most certainly want to pay a 26-year-old star running back big money.


The next question is whether Bell will report to training camp when it opens next week at Saint Vincent College.

He’s under no obligation at this point since he’s not under contract and told ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler that he’s unsure whether he will report with everyone else.

“The way I train, all it’s going to take for me is a few practices and some game action,” Bell said. “I haven’t thought about it that far. I’m game-planning today.”

Bell would be well served to get into camp sooner rather than later. While no new contract negotiations can now take place, he also isn’t guaranteed any money until he signs his tender offer.

The longer he stays away, the more angst he’ll create with fans - who have already cut him a fair amount of slack for his past indiscretions.

The fans will forget all about a holdout by Bell when he starts piling up 100-yard games. But if he holds out, gets a couple of practices and some game action under his belt and then gets hurt, the fallout from fans will be severe.


And we’ve seen exactly that happen to holdouts across the league over the years.

* My best guess based on his comments is that Bell skips the first two weeks of training camp and comes in after the team’s first preseason game.

That will give him a couple of weeks to get ready to play in the third preseason game - which is when he would have gotten any serious work anyway - and then shut things down until the regular season begins.

* The Post-Gazette ran a story today saying that left tackle Alejandro Villanueva could be a holdout rather than report and sign his one-year exclusive rights free agent offer.

Villanueva, 28, attended all of the team’s offseason workouts and it would be somewhat surprising if he decided to hold out now.

But it’s also his only leverage at this point.


As an exclusive rights free agent, he has no bargaining power other than his services.

If Villanueva does hold out, however, it opens the door for Jerald Hawkins to start working at left tackle with the first-team unit. And that doesn’t do Villanueva any good, either.

That is the difficult part of these negotiations for the Steelers.

They like Villanueva. He’s a great story and an improving player. But he’s also 28.

And they like Hawkins, a young, promising natural left tackle.

But if they give Villanueva a contract extension, it means they don’t have a spot open anytime soon for Hawkins, who has three years left on his rookie deal.

Marcus Gilbert is signed through 2019, which lines up with Hawkins’ final seaso, and will be 32 at that point, so there is that. If Hawkins is what they think he is, however, they might want to get him playing time before 2019.

Which brings us back to Villanueva.

The Steelers can make him an offer as a restricted free agent after this season, meaning he’ll get a nice raise. But it won’t be the $10 million or more that 13 other starting left tackles in the league are currently making.

And the Steelers can’t afford to pay Villanueva more than guard David DeCastro or center Maurkice Pouncey, a pair of Pro Bowl players, currently earn.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.obse..._to_bell_was_good_but_not_enough&template=amp
 
Signing bell to a huge deal is very risky. Between injuries and off-field stuff. Also i don't think his running style will translate well as he ages. He waits so long for the hole to open if he can't blast through it like now he will be toast. If he goes to a team with a weaker oline his patience will get him killed. I do believe he is overrated as well. If other rbs were as overused as him i bet they could put up similar numbers. I am not saying he isn't a good player, but there are a lot of factors that go into his success.
 
I'll be in the minority, but I say tag him two years run the hell out of him. Hopefully we get another trophy that way.

I think he technically does not have to report until week 10 on either year of the tag. I may be mistaken but I remember Vincent Jackson doing this when he was with the Chargers
 
I think he technically does not have to report until week 10 on either year of the tag. I may be mistaken but I remember Vincent Jackson doing this when he was with the Chargers

I've never understood this stance. If a player holds out the max, then returns week 10, meaning they have to be active for the rest of the season to spend a year of eligibility, the team could suspend said player for "conduct detrimental to the team" for a game or 2 to assure that player is still under contract by that team. It would be interesting to watch something like that play out.
 
The players union should negotiate guaranteed contracts, but there's got to be a reason they don't have them. Probably the number of injuries that occur, so many players can't stay healthy for the life of their contract, can't have teams paying 10million cap space on a 5th year of a contract to a guy that can't play anymore. That's the way it is, they AREN'T FORCED to be NFL players.
 
Bell won't get paid for weeks 1-9 if holds out until week 10 either.
 
You only have to play 6 games to garner tenure for the season. Not sure how team imposed "conduct detrimental" works in this case. I'm sure the union would protest pretty hard and might go to arbitration.

I doubt he sits out $700,000 a week game checks. That kind of defeats the point (is he really pushing for a trade because that the only point in sitting out now, the contract is set in stone).

Next year is a different matter. After pocketing $12 million this year, he could prepare himself financially to sit out $850,000 a week checks (under next year's tag) with the effort to FORCE a trade by the Steelers to another team that is willing to give him a long term deal. The team is in a tough spot at that point not to consider it. I mean, compensation for a player of his talent might be better than just the last 6 games of the year (and playoffs). That's a decision you have to weigh the pluses/minuses to and figure what you are willing to do in 2019 (because tagging him a 3rd time kind of gets odd).
 
It's an interesting dilemma.

Given his history, Bell simply isn't worth more than 12 million a year. To anybody. And if somebody is dumb enough to pay him more than that next year, have at it. He's a great runner. He truly is. And a fine receiver and a good blocker. All this is true. But the Steelers offered him the equivalent of 1 million per game given the number of games he's averaged per year over his career. It's just that simple.

Does anybody REALLY believe Bell is going to make it through the entire season? Really? I mean seriously? What are the odds he isn't out for at least 3 or 4 weeks by mid season? I was completely shocked that Pouncey made it through an entire year last year. I mean I was freaking SHOCKED. And Bell made it through 15 whole games including the playoffs. That's one short of his career high. But he's still never once made it through an entire season, not one time.

Nonetheless, the Steelers offered him the equivalent of 1 million a game for the games he's expected to play. He's not going to play more than 12 regular season games. It's not going to happen outside of blind ******* luck.
 
12 Million a year sounds like a good offer, but the fact that the guaranteed money was not disclosed makes me think they lowballed him. If you look at Browns contract he is the highest paid WR, His guaranteed money is much less than wr of much lower caliber. Emmanuel Sanders, keenan Allen, desean Jackson all have more guaranteed money. They are not close to the caliber of Brown, Sanders isn't even a #1 WR? Brown is obviously a Gambler.
The insultingly low guaranteed money tells me the deal they offered him he was essentially betting on himself not to get injured anyway, much like Brown.
I can see why he wouldn't sign the contract as the low guarantee was asking him to gamble anyway.
The 12m a year argument is pointless not knowing the other important details of the contract. Its like car salesman leading an uninformed buyer into a bad deal with the classic "how much do you want to spend per month?"
 
12 Million a year sounds like a good offer, but the fact that the guaranteed money was not disclosed makes me think they lowballed him. If you look at Browns contract he is the highest paid WR, His guaranteed money is much less than wr of much lower caliber. Emmanuel Sanders, keenan Allen, desean Jackson all have more guaranteed money. They are not close to the caliber of Brown, Sanders isn't even a #1 WR? Brown is obviously a Gambler.
The insultingly low guaranteed money tells me the deal they offered him he was essentially betting on himself not to get injured anyway, much like Brown.
I can see why he wouldn't sign the contract as the low guarantee was asking him to gamble anyway.
The 12m a year argument is pointless not knowing the other important details of the contract. Its like car salesman leading an uninformed buyer into a bad deal with the classic "how much do you want to spend per month?"
 
The players union should negotiate guaranteed contracts, but there's got to be a reason they don't have them. Probably the number of injuries that occur, so many players can't stay healthy for the life of their contract, can't have teams paying 10million cap space on a 5th year of a contract to a guy that can't play anymore. That's the way it is, they AREN'T FORCED to be NFL players.

if guaranteed contracts were enforced it would diminish the yearly salaries and or diminish the length of them, you would see big contracts of only two or three years tops, and only on young players. Older vets would be re-signed to one year contracts over and over
 
$42 mill in the first three years....let someone else sign him and hope he doesn't get susPender again or hurt. We have a 2 year window with Bell if we decide to franchise him again next season. Hopefully we make the best of it.
 
The 12m a year argument is pointless not knowing the other important details of the contract. Its like car salesman leading an uninformed buyer into a bad deal with the classic "how much do you want to spend per month?"

I am glad someone else see it this way
 
if guaranteed contracts were enforced it would diminish the yearly salaries and or diminish the length of them, you would see big contracts of only two or three years tops, and only on young players. Older vets would be re-signed to one year contracts over and over

A lower guaranteed number is better then a higher number that you are powerless or have no control in getting. Even if you play well you can be deemed too expensive and cut
 
People who are one spliff away from getting a year suspension are not worth a big amount of guaranteed money.
 
A lower guaranteed number is better then a higher number that you are powerless or have no control in getting. Even if you play well you can be deemed too expensive and cut

it makes sense to me
 
Top