2019 Defeats

[43Hitman]

I saw this article on another Steeler forum and thought I would share it here. Some very interesting numbers and seems to shed some light on guys that have been routinely trashed by the fan base.

So what is a "defeat"?

From the article:

"Our look back at 2019 data continues today with a look at defeats, one of our favorite stats for defensive players. We have lots of statistics to measure quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, even kickers, but our numbers for individual defensive players are a lot more limited. Defeats are one way to account for defenders who make frequent appearances on highlight reels. As a reminder, a defender is credited with a defeat any time he makes one of the following plays:

• A tackle that results in a loss of yardage, including sacks.
• Any play that results in a turnover, including tipped passes which are then intercepted.
• Any tackle or tipped pass that leads to a stop on third or fourth down"

I would pay particular attention to the numbers of Edmunds and Dupree and as a fellow poster on another board said, "its almost as if Edmunds is doing exactly whats asked of him."

So here's the full article, let the mayhem ensue. lol

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/2019-defeats

 

[Drink IRON City]

Pretty good article 43Hitman, not surprised but never looked before either. I think Edmunds is a good player on a defense loaded with great players, for that reason many see him as the weak link and thus write him off. He also bounced around a little in positions. Now that he is playing one position and able to focus on it I think this year he elevates a little, trending upwards.




Salute the nation

 

[BLITZ]

Wait. Thier are other Steeler websites?

 

[43Hitman]

Pretty good article 43Hitman, not surprised but never looked before either. I think Edmunds is a good player on a defense loaded with great players, for that reason many see him as the weak link and thus write him off. He also bounced around a little in positions. Now that he is playing one position and able to focus on it I think this year he elevates a little, trending upwards.




Salute the nation

I agree. I think he is very good, not great, and is still developing.

 

[Coach]

Pretty good article 43Hitman, not surprised but never looked before either. I think Edmunds is a good player on a defense loaded with great players, for that reason many see him as the weak link and thus write him off. He also bounced around a little in positions. Now that he is playing one position and able to focus on it I think this year he elevates a little, trending upwards



Salute the nation

Edmunds is targeted player. He's lucky to have such a good pass rush helping him out as it limits his exposure. Despite this he makes next to no plays on the ball, and lead the team in missed tackles. The guy's a little stiff with poor instincts vs. the pass, which a player needs a safety. I'm sure the coaches tell him you've got to turn you head around when the ball was is the air. Edmunds fails to do this and it costs him. He is the weak stating link on the defense. The best thing is he's still a cheap player on the cap. He need to show improvement this year. I actually think the piñata Sean Davis was a little better. Davis cost us a 2nd round pick. Edmunds a 1st.

8 players taken after Edmunds in the 2018 draft already made the pro bowl, and there are some really good one we could use.

 

[Hoot]

Edmunds ...lead the team in missed tackles. .

you have a link to the stats for this? I'd like to see it - could be interesting. ty.

 

[Hoot]

you have a link to the stats for this? I'd like to see it - could be interesting. ty.

@coach - bump. have link to this stat somewhere?

 

[slashsteel]

@coach - bump. have link to this stat somewhere?

I think we know the answer to that. He pulls **** out of his *** to fit whatever agenda he is in for the particular day.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Drink IRON City]

Edmunds is targeted player. He's lucky to have such a good pass rush helping him out as it limits his exposure. Despite this he makes next to no plays on the ball, and lead the team in missed tackles. The guy's a little stiff with poor instincts vs. the pass, which a player needs a safety. I'm sure the coaches tell him you've got to turn you head around when the ball was is the air. Edmunds fails to do this and it costs him. He is the weak stating link on the defense. The best thing is he's still a cheap player on the cap. He need to show improvement this year. I actually think the piñata Sean Davis was a little better. Davis cost us a 2nd round pick. Edmunds a 1st.

8 players taken after Edmunds in the 2018 draft already made the pro bowl, and there are some really good one we could use.

Everyone has their opinion, some better than others. Where is this link to the missed tackle accusation ? Obviously contrary to your belief the STEELERS coaching staff seem to think he is doing OK. His "defeat" number is pretty dang good and that in itself is a player indication of being good.

You definately didn't have a very high opinion of DAVIS yet you say Edmonds is a worse player which is pretty much like saying Edmonds SUCKS. He is far from that and because you say it doesn't make it so.

I'll take our coaching staff over your evaluation anytime. You see coach, after the fact you act as if you knew things before the fact. ALSO you act and say this is what you would do but you have no feeling on team cap / chemistry / injury / dynamics / late or early / things our coaching sees everyday and make a hellA lot better informed decision than many here, including YOU.





Salute the nation

 

[Hoot]

Where is this link to the missed tackle accusation ?

Salute the nation

i am actually genuinely interested if there is a respectable site tracking that. However, I am interested in seeing it in context...that is, the percentage of missed tackles vs. total tackle opportunities (missed tackles + total tackles (solo and assists)). A player could actually lead a team in missed tackles but still have an overall lower percentage of misses than another player. take a purely hypothetical example:

Player A makes 125 tackles but misses 25 so his miss rate is 25/150 or 16% of the time.
Player B makes 50 tackles but misses 20. His miss rate is 20/70 or or about 28%.
Player A has more misses, but seems to be the more sure tackler.

if the site tracking missed tackles has valid data, it might actually be an interesting performance indicator. Although any single indicator alone certainly doesn't prove anything - way too many other variables to correlate. And, it most certainly does not do is provide any sort of reasonable correlation between drafted position and player worth to the team which is often a source of debate around here (and a silly one at that) as, again, way to many other variables.

 

[Drink IRON City]

i am actually genuinely interested if there is a respectable site tracking that. However, I am interested in seeing it in context...that is, the percentage of missed tackles vs. total tackle opportunities (missed tackles + total tackles (solo and assists)). A player could actually lead a team in missed tackles but still have an overall lower percentage of misses than another player. take a purely hypothetical example:

Player A makes 125 tackles but misses 25 so his miss rate is 25/150 or 16% of the time.
Player B makes 50 tackles but misses 20. His miss rate is 20/70 or or about 28%.
Player A has more misses, but seems to be the more sure tackler.

if the site tracking missed tackles has valid data, it might actually be an interesting performance indicator. Although any single indicator alone certainly doesn't prove anything - way too many other variables to correlate. And, it most certainly does not do is provide any sort of reasonable correlation between drafted position and player worth to the team which is often a source of debate around here (and a silly one at that) as, again, way to many other variables.

Great Post Hoot and totally agree. My call out was to quiet the one who spews as though what he says is constitutional. I was just looking for confirmance of said statement.

Edmonds is better than some think but not globally recognized as he is above average on a multiple EXCELLENT player defense.







Salute the nation

 

[Hoot]

Great Post Hoot and totally agree. My call out was to quiet the one who spews as though what he says is constitutional. I was just looking for confirmance of said statement.

Edmonds is better than some think but not globally recognized as he is above average on a multiple EXCELLENT player defense.

Salute the nation

I get it. Is fine - do you. For me, I try not to waste much energy in such things. My asking wasn't trying to call anyone out, just get what might be intriguing information.

Yes, Edmonds is better than he gets credit for and he is still developing. That really isn't the debate around here though. The debate here is if he was worthy of a first round pick. Weather he was or wasn't is a weak minded debate because even if he wasn't "worthy" of a first round pick or truly "could have been had 87 rounds later", it is a sunk cost. The only question should be about future net benefit (performance minus current costs) which, btw, is how the team looks at players.