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2016 Draft - CB Evaluations

ZACKB said:
I feel that last 1st, early rd 2 there will still be some of these guys available. I'm all for trading down with a qb needy team and taking the best cb, or Noah Spence. Big proponent of trading down this year. Many team may want to get ahead of AZ or DEN for a qb.
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Every year it's the same clamor for trading down, but Colbert has said numerous times that he will never trade down just to hope there's someone decent on the other end. If he goes down 4 spots, it's because he's comfortable with taking any of 3-4 prospects still on the board and he's almost guaranteed to get one of them.

A guy who's drafted a couple HOFers (Ben, Troy), a Super Bowl MVP (Holmes) and some Pro Bowl-level players (Casey Hampton etc.) in round 1 doesn't accumulate extra 3rd round picks at the expense of elite talent even if the draft nerds think it's cool to have a mock where they end up with 6 picks in round 3.
 
Coach said:
deljzc thinks this class corner back class is over rated. I think 7-8 corners will be off the board before we pick in round two.
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won't matter. i think we are SERIOUSLY targeting a S in rd 2.
look at all the guys they brought in that all in the rd 2 area.
 
Very interesting read. I am much higher on Fuller than you and I agree when I watched him this year I was thinking all hype no substance. Then I looked at his Soph and Fresh tape and I saw a completely different player. His freshman tape was phenomenal considering he was a true freshman. But that also was the only year he was 100% healthy, which is a red flag, and he had 6 picks. His sophomore season he actually broke his wrist which probably is the reason he only had 2 picks but he increased his PD to 13. His Junior season he actually tore his meniscus and tried to play thru it. To me he has to be tough to play with a broken wrist one year then try to play thru a torn meniscus the next. That might throw red flags for an injury concern and not being able to see if his knee has healed is a big deal. But what I did see watching tape is for a straight up zone CB he fits the best. Jackson, Apple, and even Alexander were pretty much man cover CB so I feel it will take at least a season to get them up to par while Fuller if healthy, IMHO, starts from day one.
 
kev4heels said:
won't matter. i think we are SERIOUSLY targeting a S in rd 2.
look at all the guys they brought in that all in the rd 2 area.
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This is a weak safety class. I may be in the minority, but I think Golden is a decent coverage man. He played well when Allen was out, and I think will prove to be an upgrade. So the safety drafted is the 3rd type, however, ANY 1st or 2nd round pick at corner will be better than Blake by November.
 
Considering the holes we have and the DL and safety depth we probably should try and grab an extra 3rd rounder. Colbert can be too conservative IMHO.


SteelerAl said:
Every year it's the same clamor for trading down, but Colbert has said numerous times that he will never trade down just to hope there's someone decent on the other end. If he goes down 4 spots, it's because he's comfortable with taking any of 3-4 prospects still on the board and he's almost guaranteed to get one of them.

A guy who's drafted a couple HOFers (Ben, Troy), a Super Bowl MVP (Holmes) and some Pro Bowl-level players (Casey Hampton etc.) in round 1 doesn't accumulate extra 3rd round picks at the expense of elite talent even if the draft nerds think it's cool to have a mock where they end up with 6 picks in round 3.
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Black & Gold Bleeder said:
just make your own write up coach.
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Some say I have too many threads the way it is :) I just don't like Robinson high in the draft, and think players will come off the board a bit faster than deljzc projects. I do enjoy Deljzc's posts.
 
kev4heels said:
won't matter. i think we are SERIOUSLY targeting a S in rd 2.
look at all the guys they brought in that all in the rd 2 area.
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I'd only consider 4 safeties in Rd 2: Joseph, Simmons, Bell. Neal. If they are all gone then a safety in round 3 or 4 like Tyvis Powell woul be a good prospect for SS; and I do agree with Coach that Golden will start ahead of any draftee
 
Coach said:
deljzc thinks this class corner back class is over rated. I think 7-8 corners will be off the board before we pick in round two.
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and why are these mutually exclusive? It is very possible that even IF the CB class is over rated, 7-8 could be drafted by the Steelers 2nd pick, since it is a position of need for most teams
 
Historically, there are 12 CB's taken in the first 100 picks of a draft. I doubt 7-8 go off before pick #58, but you never know. I don't see that many worthwhile CB prospects so if we are that low on the list at pick #58, I'm sure my big board would suggest us going in a different direction.
 
obxsteeler said:
Shows how tough picking CB is doesn't it.
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Good CBs have off the chart mental toughness and instincts. Almost impossible to quantify.

Which is why I typically have no qualms about not using a 1st round pick on a CB.
 
deljzc said:
Historically, there are 12 CB's taken in the first 100 picks of a draft. I doubt 7-8 go off before pick #58, but you never know. I don't see that many worthwhile CB prospects so if we are that low on the list at pick #58, I'm sure my big board would suggest us going in a different direction.
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I think 8 CB's were taken last year before pick #58. The demand for the position is high. You only had 4 CB's listed that will go before round two. You had 4 other players in rounds 2-3 ( 64 picks ). I think most of the 2-3 players you listed will go before round three starts.

The trouble is we need a starter type, not a complementary role player and with at least six corners gone before we pick in round two, it means we will need to pick a player in round one. Jackson II is my pick. I liked his film in zone and man. My feeling is he'll be gone before we pick.
 
I just watched Sean Davis of Maryland as part of my safety work and I would put him as a 3-4th round prospect in the cornerback group (ahead of the Notre Dame kid).

I really liked his Michigan tape a lot and he has great size and tackling ability and the potential to move to FS. Gave up tons of production against him but shows a lot of mental toughness, a knack for turnovers and decent intangibles.

I can see the Steelers (Colbert/Butler) really liking his skill set. Whether Tomlin buys in, who knows. I think Tomlin's DB evaluations are all over the map.

[video]http://draftbreakdown.com/video/sean-davis-vs-michigan-2015/[/video]
 
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CoolieMan said:
the more coach says he likes WJIII the more I doubt my confidence in his ability.....
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Okay kiddo. Looking forward to your draft review. Until then, your a glass house type.
 
I don't think WJ3 will be around when we pick...just read that the Dolphins really like him at pick #13!
I like Karl Joseph but I think it way too early for him...dammit
 
CoolieMan said:
I just recognize talent when I see it. the fact that I graduated from the University of Houston has absolutely nothing to do with my man crush on WJIII
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Well then, give us your scouting report on the man.
 
CoolieMan said:
I've posted my thoughts many times, I am not recapping them for you
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I didn't see much content in your posts about him.




My report on Jackson

William Jackson III. Get to know him!


I love his statistics. Jackson had five interceptions and 23 pass breakups, leading the nation in passes defended! Allowed just 40% percent of passes thrown his way to be completed over last two years

I love his combine numbers. 6 feet tall, 31 3/4 inch arms ( Longer than average ) 4.37 40 yard speed.

But how does he look on film?

I watched some of it.



Pro's:

Looks great in a zone. High football IQ in terms of predicting where the pass will go. A quick-twitch type of athlete who breaks well on the ball.

Looks good in man coverage, often preferring to let the player get in front of him, shutting down the short pass, and daring the QB to throw it over his head. Jackson showed the ability to high point the ball and intercept it. This type of coverage can be risky, but when you have world class speed and good ball skills, you can play it.

Once Jackson intercepts it, he's a threat to take it to the house with speed and some moves.

Jackson is not afraid to stick his shoulder in for a big hit.

Scheme versatile. Can play cover two, cover three, cover man ( without a huge cushion ), or zone.

Will make QB's pay with bad throws. Great hands for the interception and to deflect passes. In 14 games played, he only had three of them where he had zero passed broken up. Impressive!


Con's

He's got a somewhat slim build. He does not appear to be a wrap-up tackler type, and could have some issues tackling larger receivers. Jackson looks for a hit more than a down and dirty type of wrap up tackle.

Plays aggressive, so he might be extra susceptible to double moves.

His level of competition was on the weak side, but he did pick Florida State off twice in a bowl game in 2015.

Might be a little flag prone, not from holding, but from making contact with the ball in the air.


My grade. He's a top 15 player in this draft and I hope he's there for us to select. I'm even okay trading our 3rd round pick to get him. Jackson is a pure cover type of corner who has the ability to play risky thanks to his size, speed, and ball skills. This is exactly what we need.


https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...trx_16_05&tt=b
 
I watched every game he played. Throws down the sideline were very rarely caught by the WR. He high points the ball well and either intercepts it or knocks it away.

He is not afraid to attack a RB but does like to put a big hit on the ball carrier rather than wrap up. He can wrap up though and made several one on one tackles out on the edge after quick short passes. If you want to beat him, the best bet is to send his man across the middle, most completions against him were either passes like that or short quick passes where they are hoping for a missed tackle. In the NFL he needs to be outside, I don't think he would work well covering the slot guy.
 
deljzc said:
Historically, there are 12 CB's taken in the first 100 picks of a draft. I doubt 7-8 go off before pick #58, but you never know. I don't see that many worthwhile CB prospects so if we are that low on the list at pick #58, I'm sure my big board would suggest us going in a different direction.
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Fast forwarding this thread to post draft 2016. 8 corners were taken before we picked. Pretty much what I thought. The positon is over drafted these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NFL_Draft
 
Coach said:
Fast forwarding this thread to post draft 2016. 8 corners were taken before we picked. Pretty much what I thought. The positon is over drafted these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NFL_Draft
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Remember, my original post was 6 weeks before the draft.

According to my list it was only 6 drafted before we picked in round 2. I wasn't counting Jalen Ramsey as a cornerback. Not on this list.

The only ones drafted before pick #58 were Hargreaves, Apple, Jackson, Burns, McKensie and Howard, which were almost exactly how I had them ranked except for Robinson (who only played minimally as a freshman, kicked off his team and had a boat load of off-field issues).

And note I watched Sean Davis the day after this and raved about him (this was back when he was a project 5-6th round pick by NFL Draft Scouts - he ended up as a 2nd round projection by them 4 weeks later). And I mentioned Davis would look very good in the eyes of Tombert (which he did).
 
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