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2015 Edge Defender Prospect (Pre Combine)

deljzc

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The next post will be my write-up on the defensive edge defenders in this year's draft. I might be missing a few mid round guys that I couldn't find film on yet.

My opinion of this class is it is very, very deep. I'm not quite sure who will get pushed up into the first round yet (some say 4-5 could be drafted) and I might be too conservative with my "round 2" grades but that will all get sorted out once the BIG BOARD gets set with all the positions done.

In this class there are all the shapes/sized you could want. Big, traditional DE's. Smaller DE's that need to stand up. College 3-4 OLB's that are experienced. Small school and intriguing mid-late round prospects. And the small, wing-span projects that need to gain 15 lbs. just to play in the NFL. Whatever you need: weak side, strong side, DE, OLB, versatile... it's in this class somewhere and makes ranking them all against each other a bit difficult.

Just keep in mind eye-of-the-beholder could really change how this list ends up getting drafted and the order will be all over the place. Any scout that thinks Barkevious Mingo is a top-10 prospect is going to be much higher on guys like Danielle Hunter and Eli Harold than I am. I still value toughness and the ability to hold the edge vs. the run over the tempting wing-span guys that can sit in the underneath zones or edge rush only.

Again, friendly comments/debate welcome.
 
Edge Defenders (DE/OLB)

1. Randy Gregory*, Nebraska (6060, 245#)

Intriguing skill set for a big guy. Very talented and athletic with room to get much bigger/stronger. Shows great instinct for the position already and good awareness. Pad level good for his age/size and should improve with NFL coaching. Reminds me of Chandler Jones in the fact size/length with push up stock. Round 1 for sure.

2. Dante Fowler Jr.*, Florida (6020, 261#)

Might not be elite at anything, but he’s a legit NFL prospect. Plays with NFL size, strength and closing speed. Played all over Florida defense (both OLB, ILB, DE) with hand in/out of dirt. Okay dropping back into coverage for a man his size. Has decent arm length to make up to 6’-2” frame. Violent hitter when given a free run. Round 1

3. Shane Ray*, Missouri (6030, 245#)

Very active hands with exceptional swim and chop moves. Great pad level that slides under/between lineman frequently. Good footwork with quick steps and closing speed downhill. Check strength numbers as he doesn’t show much bull rush and when stood up by O-line can stop on a play. Played predominately as a DE and size/agility will dictate a move to 3-4 OLB. Round 1-2

4. Alvin Dupree, Kentucky (6040, 245#)

Really liked his tape. Try hard kid that does a lot correct. Played in space a lot in his defense. Good hustle and gets effort plays. Reminds me a lot of Jarvis Jones with versatility and instincts. Combine will matter to see if KEI holds up. Probably could use some more functional strength. Round 2

5. Vic Beasley*, Clemson (6030, 235#)

Undersized but extremely athletic. Played with his hand in the dirt 90% of time and will have to transition to OLB. Shows effort in run game but can get walled off pretty easily. When allowed to tee-off on a pass play is a disruptive, difficult one-on-one block. Looks athletic enough on limited coverage opportunities but needs practice. Round 2

6. Lorenzo Mauldin, Louisville (6035, 256#)

Very thick in seat/thigh and reminds me a bit of James Harrison. Strong and can one-hand dip around edge and maintain strength to close corner. Could even get stronger with NFL weights and be a monster edge defender that can hold point and cause issues pass rushing OT’s. Could play with a bit nastier edge and would like to see an occasional bull rush. Could do better with hands and like Harrison is not the best one-on-one in space vs. smaller backs/receivers. Round 2-3

7. Trey Flowers, Arkansas (6022, 268#)

Plays with great pad level and physical at point of attack. Keeps head up and follows play very well. Thick in the seat/thigh. Good edge defender vs. run and can play both sides. Not sure he’s an elite pass rusher and not very quick-twitch. Shows nice burst downhill however and decent hand-to-hand stuff. Not a quick, around the edge, dip pass rusher. Don’t expect a good 40-time. Likely peaks as a functional strong side OLB or rotational DE. Round 2-3

8. Owamagbe Odighizuwa, UCLA (6032, 266#)

Predominantly a hand-in-the-dirt player and projects to a 4-3 end (looks like he played 3-4 DE for UCLA in a Wade Phillips 1-gap system). Strong and holds point very well vs. tackles and guards. Quick off ball as a gap penetrator and has potential as a DT pass rusher. Not sure I see elite edge pass rush but functional and certainly good enough to cause issues one-on-one to be effective in a decent front-4. NFL caliber player that doesn’t have much bust potential and will definitely find role at the next level. Round 2-3

9. Nate Orchard, Utah (6032, 251#)

Undersized 4-3 weak side DE in college that will have to transition to OLB. Not quite as explosive as you’d like and lacks that “it factor” on tape. Jack-of-all-trades, master of none and with the combination of position change lowers his potential/draft ranking in my opinion. Might even end up as a SAM type 4-3 OLB at the next level. Mostly a hustle player that does a decent job getting off blocks and finding guys. Check change of direction combine numbers. That’s a big thing for this player. Round 3

10. Cedric Reed, Texas (6060, 271#)

I kind of like his 2013 tape vs. WVU more than Trail/Smith as a physically gifted size/length 4-3 DE prospect. Shows a lot of work ethic and hustle on tape. Plenty of things to work with from a coaching perspective and has obviously been coached well based on tape. Does a lot of little things well. Might not be as flashy or test as well as some other guys, but has an NFL body, plays for a big-time school, has experience, and should develop into a good professional. Coming off knee meniscus repair surgery and has to pass medical. Round 3-4

11. Danielle Hunter*, LSU (6060, 241#)

Not my thing and just too tall and weak at this stage of career. A project that might best be suited to a 4-3 DE pass rush specialist. Decent hands that uses reach well to disengage tackles, but not sure that works at the next level much. Not much power in game and could be a one-trick pony. Lots of bust potential to me, but talent /physical gifts are there. Round 3-4

12. Eli Harold*, Virginia (6040, 235#)

Very tall and skinny. Lacks functional strength. Everything is trying to go around guys to make plays. Can get washed out of plays often. Flashes tempting pass rush ability and is extremely athletic and long, but is still an unfinished product. A little Mingo in his game but Mingo was probably better in space. Round 3-4

13. Hau’oli Kikaha*, Washington (6024, 245#)

Looks the part and played predominately as a stand-up OLB. Might be maxed out size-wise. Not as athletic and “quick twitch” as you’d like and didn’t show me a lot of burst/explosion in his play. Had a free blindside run vs. Hawaii and didn’t “close” as fast as you’d like (steps were very choppy). Doesn’t play with best pad level to hold point but effort is there. Reminds me of Koi Misi and will get overdrafted. Round 4

14. Za’Darius Smith, Kentucky (6045, 270#)

Plays more like a 2-gap 3-4 DE/DT prospect. Despite size similarities is a much more lumbering player than Preston Smith and does most of his work against guards. Everything in pass rush is just bull rush, minor hand use and sheds into the QB on coverage sacks. Not a lot of explosion in his game at all. Has NFL size and strength however and can play in multiple fronts and that type of versatility will get him drafted. Might end up putting him on my 3-4 DE list.

15. Preston Smith, Mississippi State (6043, 270#)

Size and reach are very tempting. Shows okay explosion around edge for a player his size. Has WOW plays. However, he doesn’t play as strong as his size indicated and looses leverage too often. Gets stood up and can stop if initial move fails. Pad level , combination moves and better hand use really need to be coached up. Boom/bust prospect and interview will matter. Round 4

16. Markus Golden, Missouri (6022, 255#)

Short stocky edge defender that is more bull than gazelle. Lots of just ramming gap and hoping for the best. Not the greatest athlete but should measure well on strength tests. Can blow up smaller backs in pass protection and not afraid to just go through them (unlike some that too easily get blocked by backs) and protects legs well. Not sure he’s functional enough in space to be a stand-up OLB (check combine).

17. C. J. Johnson, Mississippi (6020, 225#)

A bit undersized but could be a functional OLB at the next level. Nothing jumps out on film and I’m curious how he tests at the combine. I think he benefitted greatly from a good D-line in front of him at Ole Miss and had a lot of clean plays. Decent fundamentals and looks like he’ll take to coaching, just not sure his frame/size can improve enough to play at the next level. Round 4-5

18. Max Valles*, Virginia (6050, 240#)

Very good late round flyer/prospect. Young and needs coached up and patience, but there is a LOT of NFL talent here with prototypical size and athleticism. I’d almost hope he doesn’t blow up the combine or get too much press right now as he could be a steal in rounds 5-6. Plays with toughness and not afraid to get his nose dirty. Plays with an edge and used to standing up in Virginia’s 3-4. He’s not a guarantee and very raw and he’ll have to accept special teams for a while, but the risk/reward is worth the interest/investment (unlike Tony Washington for example). Round 5

19. Zack Hodges, Harvard (6025, 242#)

Typical, small-school DE prospect that seems to have unique athleticism at his level to be a project 3-4 OLB. Against D-II talent he did almost everything correct: good pad level, explosive around edge, strong against the run, sheds blocks, follows play. Round 5

20. Deion Barnes*, Penn State (6037, 260#)

True 4-3 DE with tempting size/length for position. Plays with good leverage at times and isn’t a liability vs. the run (unless he is pushed wide of play). Not as natural an athlete as you’d like and plays a bit stiff. Not sure he’s as “cut” physically as some of the others on this list and could improve with NFL weights. Difficult prospect to gage as he will have to continue to improve and work hard to really pay off likely draft position. Round 5

21. Lynden Trail, Norfolk State (6062, 262#)

Very raw D-III prospect with tempting size/reach/athleticism. Did not dominate vs. Bethune like you would have liked to see. Everything in his game is based on reach advantage and push/pull moves to disengage. Some film has him standing up but he’s way behind even Dion Jordan in terms of athletic ability and experience (and Jordan is struggling in the NFL). Even more of a project than Preston Smith with even more risk. Round 6
 
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I can't see taking an edge rusher out of college, especially if a first round pick, that is below 250. I know you want speed but you need some weight to go up against 300 lb plus linemen. 225 to 235 seems way too small for an outside rusher that is basically a defensive lineman when rushing 4. If blitzing with 5 on every down, then maybe you can do that but we rush 3 or 4 and get zero pressure.
 
If we have to "force" this position because of the Jason Worilds / free agency at OLB, I think the "line" that denotes a potential rookie starter is #8 and above (Odighazuwa). If we don't get one of the top-8 guys you can't expect a lot of meaningful, starter snaps from anyone else on the list.
 
If we have to "force" this position because of the Jason Worilds / free agency at OLB, I think the "line" that denotes a potential rookie starter is #8 and above (Odighazuwa). If we don't get one of the top-8 guys you can't expect a lot of meaningful, starter snaps from anyone else on the list.

If Worilds doesn't want a team friendly deal I'd rather keep Moats and roll the dice with a rookie in the first or secnd round, even if he doesn't contribute a lot next year. I'd rather have the growing pains of a prospect than overpaying a regular guy
 
If we have to "force" this position because of the Jason Worilds / free agency at OLB, I think the "line" that denotes a potential rookie starter is #8 and above (Odighazuwa). If we don't get one of the top-8 guys you can't expect a lot of meaningful, starter snaps from anyone else on the list.

Odighazuwa has big medical problems .. two surgeries on hips i wouldn't risk on him ... i would take mauldin in the second
 
Dulac seems to think Mauldin will be in play for our first round pick.
 
would be a little reach , but i like the player so i will not be too upset
 
Odighazuwa has big medical problems .. two surgeries on hips i wouldn't risk on him ... i would take mauldin in the second

I really like Odighizuwa. He MAY NOT be a health concern as "frayed labrum" surgeries are usually caused by an irregularity which is corrected in surgery. Having BOTH hips repaired would "limit" the "bend" on any recovering candidate too so I think he COULD be able to quickly develop some outside moves. His strength, hand use and size is unmatched in this draft, IMO.
He is also the best run defender in the draft,IMO.

Problem is, rumors already have the Ravens very interested in this kid as a replacement for Pernell McPhee if they lose him.

That said, I don't want a LOLB who is under 260# or we will suffer in stopping the run IMO. We'll have to wait and see how they grade-out after combine and pro-days.
 
Del I almost spit all over my monitor with this one.
4. Alvin Dupree, Kentucky (6040, 245#)

Really liked his tape. Try hard kid that does a lot correct. Played in space a lot in his defense. Good hustle and gets effort plays. Reminds me a lot of Jarvis Jones with versatility and instincts. Combine will matter to see if KEI holds up. Probably could use some more functional strength. Round


As soon as I saw Jarvis Jones and 4th on the list I thought the rest of these guys can be had as free agents if anyone wants them.
 
Deljzc,


I think you under rated some players. I'll comment on few.


Shane Ray*, Missouri (6030, 245#)

Very active hands with exceptional swim and chop moves. Great pad level that slides under/between lineman frequently. Good footwork with quick steps and closing speed downhill. Check strength numbers as he doesn’t show much bull rush and when stood up by O-line can stop on a play. Played predominately as a DE and size/agility will dictate a move to 3-4 OLB. Round 1-2

>>> Ray's a stud. A top 17 pick. Will not be there for us!



Vic Beasley*, Clemson (6030, 235#)

Undersized but extremely athletic. Played with his hand in the dirt 90% of time and will have to transition to OLB. Shows effort in run game but can get walled off pretty easily. When allowed to tee-off on a pass play is a disruptive, difficult one-on-one block. Looks athletic enough on limited coverage opportunities but needs practice. Round 2

>>> This guy scares me. He's too light.


6. Lorenzo Mauldin, Louisville (6035, 256#)

Very thick in seat/thigh and reminds me a bit of James Harrison. Strong and can one-hand dip around edge and maintain strength to close corner. Could even get stronger with NFL weights and be a monster edge defender that can hold point and cause issues pass rushing OT’s. Could play with a bit nastier edge and would like to see an occasional bull rush. Could do better with hands and like Harrison is not the best one-on-one in space vs. smaller backs/receivers. Round 2-3

>>> Could be our guy if we do not pick an edge rusher in round one.




Nate Orchard, Utah (6032, 251#)

Undersized 4-3 weak side DE in college that will have to transition to OLB. Not quite as explosive as you’d like and lacks that “it factor” on tape. Jack-of-all-trades, master of none and with the combination of position change lowers his potential/draft ranking in my opinion. Might even end up as a SAM type 4-3 OLB at the next level. Mostly a hustle player that does a decent job getting off blocks and finding guys. Check change of direction combine numbers. That’s a big thing for this player. Round 3

>> Round three for Orchard? Not a chance. He's was very productive and a star at senior bowl week. I think he's a mid first to very early second round type of player. IMO, he's very good vs both the run or pass, and has that motor and drive that is often under valued. I like him in round one for us!
 
Alvin Dupree reminds me of Jarvis Jones' COLLEGE tape. And there a few things that could indicate Dupree's transition to the NFL won't follow the same as Jones'. First, he's about a year younger than Jones coming out. Second, he's bigger - taller and wingspan. Third, he doesn't have a history of back problems. Fourth (and I mention this in my review), his Kirwin Explosion Index (KEI) might end up being a lot better than Jones' (which was a big red flag during the draft process).

The tape is the tape. It's eerily similar to Jarvis. No matter if we drafted him or someone else did, what Jones put on tape as a collegiate indicated at least round 2 status. It was the medical/explosion numbers that should have caused pause before drafting him #17 overall.

I see Dupree as a round 2 talent. Very similar to how I rated Jones' tape when I watched him.
 
I was not that impressed with Nate Orchard's tape. I don't really see anything that stands out and think he's a maxed out player. I don't trust his sack numbers in the PAC-10 either.

Off the field, Orchard's a class act guy. He's married with kids, mature, everything you'd think to look for. I just don't see much on tape that jumps out as NFL quality great. Lots of good, not great. And I really worry he's not athletic enough to stand up and be an OLB. As I said in my review, I am very curious about his change of direction skills, especially since I know he's going to be practicing for the combine like hell.
 
could you expand on Eli Harold? I've seen him projected in the 1st and at 6'4" 250 (not the 235 you state). Not arguing, just asking.
 
could you expand on Eli Harold? I've seen him projected in the 1st and at 6'4" 250 (not the 235 you state). Not arguing, just asking.

He's listed as 235 lbs. by both Draft Scout and Draft Breakdown. You can study his film here (lots of games in 2014 to watch):

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/eli-harold/

I just don't see a lot of power in his game at all. Everything seems "soft" to me. With his reach, even if he's too wide on his arc around to the quarterback he can cause disruption, but I think NFL tackles are going to man-handle him.

It's interesting when I rewatch some of the tape because I see the difference between him and Valles (Harold is a better athlete), but when I project them to the NFL I see the same flaws/concerns.
 
del. would you take mauldin at 22 ? or Odighazuwa ?
 
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del. would you take mauldin at 22 ?

according to what he wrote on the opening post, No.
If the other top guys are taken and there also isn't a top CB left then maybe we should trade down to the early 2nd round and get an extra 3rd in the process
 
Maudlin is the type of physical, power-oriented edge player they need to get back to. These weaker, finese players like Jones And Worilds just aren't cutting it.

I'm not convinced Mauldin with be here at 22, as I've been reading how as much as 7 or 8 edge players may go within the first 15-20 picks this year, which would just be the Steelers' luck.
 
I am taking some liberties here but I think Del has most of his 'round selections' in the right places...considerate of a well rounded draft of other talented players.

The problem I see is this draft, while deeper in projected prospects, is weak at the top. A lot of players are going to go higher than they should (as always) due to skill position need, IMO.

Take for instance Randy Gregory: While the guy is very athletic, he is built like a basketball player. Put it this way, he is nearly 4 inches taller than our own J.Jones with nowhere near the production and roughly the same weight. While he could be compared to highly drafted Dion Jordan (similar in a lot of ways), Jordan hasn't exactly blown the NFL away (3 career sacks) despite adding considerable weight.

He will go early BUT I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He was better in 2013 but he was manhandled against Wisconsin by either a TE or T on most plays.

My point is, IF Gregory is considered the best option as an 'edge' guy, this draft is a real crap-shoot. There will be some talented players taken later but overall the 'standouts' are few, IMO.
 
i absolutely agree, and you can say that for almost all positions aside dt .. and is deep at cb ... a lot very good
 
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I was not that impressed with Nate Orchard's tape. I don't really see anything that stands out and think he's a maxed out player. I don't trust his sack numbers in the PAC-10 either.

Off the field, Orchard's a class act guy. He's married with kids, mature, everything you'd think to look for. I just don't see much on tape that jumps out as NFL quality great. Lots of good, not great. And I really worry he's not athletic enough to stand up and be an OLB. As I said in my review, I am very curious about his change of direction skills, especially since I know he's going to be practicing for the combine like hell.

I trust his performance at the senior bowl. We shall see how he works out. I want to see his 10 yard forty, and 20 yard shuffle. A good 20 yard shuffle time is below 4.3 for an edge rusher.
 
It's still very early to take these rankings as the be-all, end-all.

I am traditionally pretty hard on my first evaluation of the film and I don't assign "1st round grades" to 32 players. I don't count and make sure I mark down 32 guys with 1st round grades, 32 guys with 2nd round grades, etc.

It's just my initial impression. As the workout numbers start to roll in, as the talking heads start to leak info on the risers and fallers, it all comes together for my final big board in April. Just be patient.
 
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