Chris Simms preaches the Canada/Ben Gospel for slow learners

[Gildong Sack]

Explains it to the deluded starting at the 2:00 minute mark.

 

[wig]

I think some fair points are made, but Simms kinda shoots his own argument in the foot when he points out that it looked to him like Roethlisberger was starting to call his own plays, move receivers around, not following Canada.

You know, that part where they started moving the ball and scoring points.

I don't disagree that the Ben of 2021 was not the same Ben as 2018. I suppose we'll never know just how much impact that elbow injury had on his ability to throw longer balls because literally, the entire offensive strategy from 2019 on has been to throw 3 yard passes regardless of who's under center. Maybe it was the line, maybe it was Ben's elbow, maybe it was the onset of declining abilities. But that doesn't explain why they had Rudolph and Duck ALSO throwing 3 yard passes all through 2019.

One of the reasons people sort of liked Duck was that he would occasionally throw something deeper than a 3 yard curl.

So, likely the cataclysmic dropoff between 2018 and 2021 is based on any number of variables. But I'd submit that Roethlisberger is only ONE of those variables. He's certainly not the sole reason the team sucked in 2021. Nor is he the sole reason the team's wheels fell off midway through an underwhelming, but at least bearable 2020.

 

[bkwheat28]

I can’t help but to agree with some of Simms reasoning and admit I even thought it myself at times. But doesn’t it go back to Tomlins saying of if you have red paint you paint your barn red? If they were going to keep Ben then why didn’t they play to his strengths rather than trying to run an offense that didn’t play to anything he still could do well? Maybe Canada can run a better offense with people that fit it better, but I think they did a piss poor job of deciding to go against anything Ben was good at. And I’m not defending Ben, he’s not the same player he once was. But it just felt like the old cram a square peg in a round hole type of thing.

 

[Coryea]

Charlie Batch flat out said the scheme was the problem, and you're not going to do a damn thing when the RB is getting hit in the backfield on the majority of his carries, and the QB, regardless if it's Ben or Mason has 2.5 seconds to throw before being under pressure

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Canada was an absolute **** show this year. That being said he could be far better than what we saw this year if he has actual control of the offense with a QB who will do what he calls and is capable of running when needed and making a play action fake believable. If he utilizes the QB under center more and runs multiple plays from the same formations and truly utilizes motion effectively he could be ok. Now I am not sold on him actually doing these things and making adjustments but we will see.

I love Ben in fact I am waiting on a home authentic Ben jersey. I also am willing to consider he was as much the problem as Canada in his physical limitations and unwillingness to hold onto the ball anymore and make a play. He potentially hamstrung what Canada was trying to do but Canada never truly adjusted to what he could do either.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Charlie Batch flat out said the scheme was the problem, and you're not going to do a damn thing when the RB is getting hit in the backfield on the majority of his carries, and the QB, regardless if it's Ben or Mason has 2.5 seconds to throw before being under pressure

Watching replays I think some of this is scheme and some is Ben not striking any fear into the hearts of OLB's and the secondary having to worry about any scrambling or outside contain. They could pack the middle stuffing the run and the middle of the field making Bens look short or deep outside and only really having to cover there. Even a fractionally more mobile QB would have changed that dynamic to a degree.

 

[diver]

I can’t help but to agree with some of Simms reasoning and admit I even thought it myself at times. But doesn’t it go back to Tomlins saying of if you have red paint you paint your barn red? If they were going to keep Ben then why didn’t they play to his strengths rather than trying to run an offense that didn’t play to anything he still could do well? Maybe Canada can run a better offense with people that fit it better, but I think they did a piss poor job of deciding to go against anything Ben was good at. And I’m not defending Ben, he’s not the same player he once was. But it just felt like the old cram a square peg in a round hole type of thing.

I think the world of Ben. But at this point in his career, what would you call his strengths? He didn't move well at all and his arm was inconsistent. That doesn't make for a lot of success.

It is a credit to him that with all that he still got them 9 wins and in the playoffs.

 

[Coryea]

This offense looked just like the offense we saw when Ben was out hurt, actually this offense produced more, but net yards per attempt were identical, funny when it was two totally different OC's, two different QB's, but the HC was the same.

 

[TDX27]

Some fair points but Simms and others that only watch a little film and bloviate are as delusional as you. We all have said there were issues with Ben, the line, and the WR's. However, the biggest glaring issue was obviously Canada. I won't go into all the detail I already have as it clearly makes this all sound like nonsense that we have another thread about it. But, all you have to do is look at the games we won where Ben brought us back to win. We were down iin games because of the nonsensical ultra-conservative play calling. We couldn't f'ing score. We had ultra-quick play calls to throw to the line or behind the line on 3rd and long (why is that even part of your RPO or any offense unless it is a last resort dump-off?). But, later in the 3rd quarters or 4th quarter, Ben was able to open it up (for whatever reason - whoever was calling the plays), make all the throws, score points, and bring us back to win. He had NO problem with time or throwing downfield. So, why the **** didn't Canada even attempt that all season in the first 3 quarters of a game? Why didn't he attempt it against Cleveland or Baltimore when it was win or you're done? Why didn't he attempt it against KC and instead go run up the middle, run up the middle, quick throw behind the line, punt when we won the coin-toss and (for some dumbass reason) decided to receive? I still have not seen these questions answered.

P.S. Explain why we had no game plan for KC (KC had already played 17 games including one against us)? Why did we not have plays in the lineup for when KC had 9 in the box with tight man coverage? Why did we not have something for Ben to do when it was 3rd and 2 and KC had all ******* 11 men within 5 yards of the LOS (8 or 9 of which were within 2 to 3 yards of the line)? This is all 100% on Canada.

P.S.S. Tomlin always says next man up, etc. Well, our man was Ben. If Canada couldn't figure something out to start the season and then still came up with nothing after 18 games. Canada didn't change or adapt all season. He was playing junior varsity in his and Tomlins fears. That is very telling about how terrible an OC he is.

 

[bkwheat28]

I agree Diver he didn’t have much left in the tank. But they seemed to do well in shotgun and an up temp “hurry up” offense. Hell, if that’s what he was best at, go full Houston Oilers run n’ shoot. But truly, if Ben couldn’t/wouldn’t do what they wanted then it was just time to say like they did with Troy, we’re sorry but it’s time. And if he insisted he could still play, let him go elsewhere and play. Hell he coulda gone and taken the jets to the playoffs but no one was gonna not think of his legacy as a Steeler.

 

[Coryea]

It's funny the only time we moved the ball or were dangerous on offense was when we were trailing late in games, if Ben was running the show don't you think we'd have run a **** ton of no huddle? We moved the ball when Ben was in control of the play calling in the hurry up. Gerry Dulac has said it, Charlie Batch has said it, Bouchette, hell anyone that covers the team.
Ben absolutely isn't what he once was, he obviously has limitations, but one way to slow a pass rush down is to go up tempo/no huddle, something we only do when we are trailing, this goes back several years no matter who the OC is, that's Tomlin's ultra conservative offense.

 

[fedderone]

You all can't have it both ways.
If we win, it's because of Ben, and only because of Ben, because Canada sucks.
And when we lose it's because of Canada, and only because of Canada, because Canada sucks.
It's just as maddening when people say "Ben won two SuperBowls". No Ben did not. The Steelers won two SuperBowls when Ben was part of the TEAM.

There's a LOT of factors why we looked like arse on offense.
Our offensive line was garbage.
WRs dropping passes.
Canada couldn't go "full retard" ( for your Tropic Thunder fans ) because of Ben's physical limitations.
Both Kaboly and Bouchette wrote articles on this very topic.
Tomlin, Canada, Rooney, Colbert, NOBODY in the organization is going to say, "Well, Ben wanted to come back and we didn't have the heart to say no, so he really hamstrung us with the play calling."
Canada said in multiple interviews that he only picked plays Ben was comfortable with. Is that one play? 50 plays? Is it only 1/10, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 of Canada's playbook?

I've never been a Ben cheerleader while he's been here, but I can admit we don't win those two SuperBowls, or appear in another, without him.
That sais, for all you thinking that the past few years of Ben are ANYWHERE near Ben circa 2005 - 2015, you're fooling yourself.
He took ABUSE behind garbage lines early in his career, and again at the end.
He physically couldn't do it anymore. Yeah, there were glimpses every once and a while of the ol' sandlot gunslinger, but these past few years, no team feared a deep ball from him at all.
The offense became predictable and easily contained due to his physical limitations.

Because of what Ben has meant to the organization, and because we don't currently roster any semblance of a post Ben plan, the Steelers were going to let Ben go out on his terms. Bad or good. And it was BAD.
NOT laying ALL the blame at Ben's feet.
Most of the blame actually belongs to Tomlin and Rooney and Colbert.
Allowing Ben to come back ( but not without a payout to help the cap ) and be and do Ben, they knew this is what this was going to be.
Ben has NEVER been a system QB.
Canada's offense is ABSOLUTELY systematic.

Whomever didn't see this perfect storm brewing last preseason after Ben announced coming back and Canada taking over and wanting to implement a BRAND NEW offense, is either delusional or perpetually optimistic.
I'm in no way defending Canada.
But I also don't think he is the primary and or sole cause of blame.
But he should be given a legitimate opportunity to install his system, his FULL playbook, and have it run accordingly.
If that happens this year and the team still looks like arse, then absolutely fire Canada.
..........and Tomlin should be a package deal with that, too!

 

[SteelerFan448]

There are a lot of bad offenses in the NFL in terms of personnel and the Steelers fit well within that group. What none of those other teams did was fail to score a first half offensive touchdown in five consecutive games.

 

[slashsteel]

Nobody will convince me Canada is capable, he flat out blows chunks.

 

[Steeler]

It's funny the only time we moved the ball or were dangerous on offense was when we were trailing late in games, if Ben was running the show don't you think we'd have run a **** ton of no huddle? We moved the ball when Ben was in control of the play calling in the hurry up. Gerry Dulac has said it, Charlie Batch has said it, Bouchette, hell anyone that covers the team.
Ben absolutely isn't what he once was, he obviously has limitations, but one way to slow a pass rush down is to go up tempo/no huddle, something we only do when we are trailing, this goes back several years no matter who the OC is, that's Tomlin's ultra conservative offense.

This ^
I've been screaming it at my TV for years and I just don't understand it. It seems like 9 out of 10 times when we speed up the tempo, we go from cold to hot, or at least nice and warm.
I get that you want to rest your defense and not end up putting them right back on the field, but with Ben running a quicker pace we always play better on offense. This **** has been going on a long time, as Coryea said with multiple different coordinators. Tomlin is always the denominator.

 

[diver]

You all can't have it both ways.
If we win, it's because of Ben, and only because of Ben, because Canada sucks.
And when we lose it's because of Canada, and only because of Canada, because Canada sucks.
It's just as maddening when people say "Ben won two SuperBowls". No Ben did not. The Steelers won two SuperBowls when Ben was part of the TEAM.

There's a LOT of factors why we looked like arse on offense.
Our offensive line was garbage.
WRs dropping passes.
Canada couldn't go "full retard" ( for your Tropic Thunder fans ) because of Ben's physical limitations.
Both Kaboly and Bouchette wrote articles on this very topic.
Tomlin, Canada, Rooney, Colbert, NOBODY in the organization is going to say, "Well, Ben wanted to come back and we didn't have the heart to say no, so he really hamstrung us with the play calling."
Canada said in multiple interviews that he only picked plays Ben was comfortable with. Is that one play? 50 plays? Is it only 1/10, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 of Canada's playbook?

I've never been a Ben cheerleader while he's been here, but I can admit we don't win those two SuperBowls, or appear in another, without him.
That sais, for all you thinking that the past few years of Ben are ANYWHERE near Ben circa 2005 - 2015, you're fooling yourself.
He took ABUSE behind garbage lines early in his career, and again at the end.
He physically couldn't do it anymore. Yeah, there were glimpses every once and a while of the ol' sandlot gunslinger, but these past few years, no team feared a deep ball from him at all.
The offense became predictable and easily contained due to his physical limitations.

Because of what Ben has meant to the organization, and because we don't currently roster any semblance of a post Ben plan, the Steelers were going to let Ben go out on his terms. Bad or good. And it was BAD.
NOT laying ALL the blame at Ben's feet.
Most of the blame actually belongs to Tomlin and Rooney and Colbert.
Allowing Ben to come back ( but not without a payout to help the cap ) and be and do Ben, they knew this is what this was going to be.
Ben has NEVER been a system QB.
Canada's offense is ABSOLUTELY systematic.

Whomever didn't see this perfect storm brewing last preseason after Ben announced coming back and Canada taking over and wanting to implement a BRAND NEW offense, is either delusional or perpetually optimistic.
I'm in no way defending Canada.
But I also don't think he is the primary and or sole cause of blame.
But he should be given a legitimate opportunity to install his system, his FULL playbook, and have it run accordingly.
If that happens this year and the team still looks like arse, then absolutely fire Canada.
..........and Tomlin should be a package deal with that, too!

You know, hahaha, I'm that guy. I had the feeling it wouldn't work, but ****, part of the fun of being a fan is being optimistic, what else do we really have control over with the Steelers but our attitude toward them, so I talked myself into thinking it could work. Then they beat the Bills up there...

So which am I...delusional or perpetually optimistic?

 

[fedderone]

You know, hahaha, I'm that guy. I had the feeling it wouldn't work, but ****, part of the fun of being a fan is being optimistic, what else do we really have control over with the Steelers but our attitude toward them, so I talked myself into thinking it could work. Then they beat the Bills up there...

So which am I...delusional or perpetually optimistic?

Perpetually optimistic……like we all are gameday.
But always, ALWAYS, cheer with your heart and bet with your brains.
Our loves are always emotional.
But we must step back and insert pragmatism into our delusion that is our never dying fandom.

 

[steelreeling]

Charlie Batch flat out said the scheme was the problem, and you're not going to do a damn thing when the RB is getting hit in the backfield on the majority of his carries, and the QB, regardless if it's Ben or Mason has 2.5 seconds to throw before being under pressure

i agree with Charlie Batch. And all these reasons carried over from last year are why you go out and draft an incredibly mobile interior lineman and a receiving TE - because you want to stretch the defense horizontally. The plan is to out maneuver them.

THEN you watch the plays the Steelers called. Perhaps 3, maybe 4 sweep plays?! They pulled the center maybe 5 times.
No TE rub and out-cut plays.

Then you put in three back-up interior lineman and the pressure up the middle subsides quite a bit while the plays you are STILL CALLING now start gaining 3, 4, and 5 yards. WTF took them so long to realize you cant jam a square peg players into a round hole playbook?

WHY do Matt Canada and Mike Tomlin still have a job?

 

[steelreeling]

P.S. Explain why we had no game plan for KC (KC had already played 17 games including one against us)? Why did we not have plays in the lineup for when KC had 9 in the box with tight man coverage? Why did we not have something for Ben to do when it was 3rd and 2 and KC had all ******* 11 men within 5 yards of the LOS (8 or 9 of which were within 2 to 3 yards of the line)? This is all 100% on Canada.

There really is nothing you can say against this. Opponents did this to the O all year long. And the playcalling never changed.

And it did not help that our players thought that they actually had any accomplishments.

No one was game-planning against Diontae Johnson or Chase Claypool. In fact, twenty six (26) NFL defensive coordinators and twenty-one (21) NFL free-safeties do not know who the **** Dionta Johnson or Chase Claypool is.

 

[fedderone]

Kaboly has an article in The Athletic with quotes from Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins talking about not being 18 year vets and getting to override the OC and HC and not embrace the FULL playbook and the offense this year being a bastardized hybrid but mostly what Ben did and liked before Canada.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

What a load of horseshit. It's all Ben's fault. He's changing plays! Guess somebody forgot to tell Simms that Canada's system has no audibles.

Is Ben calling plays in hurry up? Maybe. And maybe that's why they're successful.

Rodgers got McCarthy fired and the media loved it. Brady has modified Arians offense. Let Russ cook!

But Big Ben? How dare he want input into the great Matt canada's offense that is so great that he can't hold a job for more then a few years.

Too many quick passes? Has he not watched the steelers offense the last 5 years? That has been the staple for years.

Oh, Ben's arm is shot eh? I guess that explains why Canada call so many deep balls down the sideline. And if Ben's arm is shot then why so many outside throws? Throwing over the middle would be easier throws by somehow Canada's scheme has few throws over the middle.

 

[stuntmanmike]

Simms is just girlsplaining the line that it was Ben’s fault, trust them, Canada is a mad genius and of course its the offensive line. Like I say all teams have ****** up offensive lines, chiefs had less talent than us didn’t stop them… and guess what Simms, Ben wasn’t a daddysboy flop like you and given his experience over Canada’s and, the fact is the Steeler have payed Ben 100m, it was Ben’s season to lose not Canadas…. this is on tomlin he’s hire three coordinators each one worse than the other. Keep Canada after the worse season, the worst Steeler offense ever, the worse offense they ever fielded in a playoff game, and not just the Steelers, but any playoff teams ever? I say go ahead as long as next season tomlin and Rooney jr are held accountable. No improvement they get fired… next Rooney up as president and (hold on to your hipster hat!) we get McDaniels from the 49ers as HC, Dan Colbert given player personnel. They agree to that I’ll put up with Canada another year… anyone who believe this will be better without Ben just go watch the lions game then tell me all bout how great presnap movement is!

 

[stillwright]

It was stupid to bring Ben back if you put handcuffs on him with this offense. When Ben did his own thing the offense moved. Seven 4th quarter come from behind wins. When Ben ran the rpo the part where the QB is a run option is basically thrown out the window. Ben can't run. So yeah. You can put the blame on Ben if you want or simply call the entire coaching staff and front office idiots for bringing Ben back to run their offense knowing that the QB is old and slow. And that is not getting into how bad of a plan they had for our OL this season.

 

[diver]

What a load of horseshit. It's all Ben's fault. He's changing plays! Guess somebody forgot to tell Simms that Canada's system has no audibles.

Is Ben calling plays in hurry up? Maybe. And maybe that's why they're successful.

Rodgers got McCarthy fired and the media loved it. Brady has modified Arians offense. Let Russ cook!

But Big Ben? How dare he want input into the great Matt canada's offense that is so great that he can't hold a job for more then a few years.

Too many quick passes? Has he not watched the steelers offense the last 5 years? That has been the staple for years.

Oh, Ben's arm is shot eh? I guess that explains why Canada call so many deep balls down the sideline. And if Ben's arm is shot then why so many outside throws? Throwing over the middle would be easier throws by somehow Canada's scheme has few throws over the middle.

No they aren't. If a ball is floating around up there, a sideline throw will go out of bounds or at least has a more limited area for a defender to make a play. What I hate about the reliance on those throws is it also limits the receiver to some extent. If the damn ball is floating around in the middle of the field though, look out.

 

[diver]

It was stupid to bring Ben back if you put handcuffs on him with this offense. When Ben did his own thing the offense moved. Seven 4th quarter come from behind wins. When Ben ran the rpo the part where the QB is a run option is basically thrown out the window. Ben can't run. So yeah. You can put the blame on Ben if you want or simply call the entire coaching staff and front office idiots for bringing Ben back to run their offense knowing that the QB is old and slow. And that is not getting into how bad of a plan they had for our OL this season.

I think one of the things that is being overlooked in all of this because we are so pissed at the mess...one of the great things about the Steelers organization is they are loyal to players. I think their loyalty to Ben caused them to try this. It didn't turn out well, but it reminds me of the early 80s. It is cold blooded to just cut guys who have done so much. They held on to some of those 70s guys a bit too long, and probably did the same here. I'm glad I am a fan of an organization that maybe makes mistakes in that way.