Steelers Sign Tomlin to Three-Year Extension

[slashsteel]

I am somewhat in the middle. He never revisited that success but he still had the success to begin with. So I can't take that SB win away from him anymore than I can overlook his less than desirable results as of late. We all know this is a what have you done for me lately league though. And lately his late season results are below the line.

 

[FSF]

In those 2016 playoff games, the two where BELL set rushing records were easily in hand yet tomlin kept him in the game. Those two high carries games are what set injury to BELL causing his sidelined *** to not contribute in the AFCCG. COACHING 101



Salute the nation

The game against Kansas City was not easily in hand. It got up to an 8-point lead in the 4th, would have helped to have converted 2 of the 3 red zone or 3 just outside the red zone trips into TDs instead of FGs, but they were a holding call on Eric Fisher from having that game tied 18-18.

Against Miami, it was 20-6 at halftime against a team that had twice scored more than 13 points on them in a half earlier in the season. Bell had 10 carries for 70 yards in the 3rd quarter that resulted in 2 scoring drives (including a TD run by Bell) to go up 30-6. He had 2 carries in the 4th quarter before he was pulled out of the game. Given he had 30 carries the next week in Divisional Round, I don't think his hamstring was effected by being overplayed.

If you want to argue that they didn't take him out enough during season with a capable RB like DeAngelo Williams to spell him, I will agree.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The game against Kansas City was not easily in hand. It got up to an 8-point lead in the 4th, would have helped to have converted 2 of the 3 red zone or 3 just outside the red zone trips into TDs instead of FGs, but they were a holding call on Eric Fisher from having that game tied 18-18.

Against Miami, it was 20-6 at halftime against a team that had twice scored more than 13 points on them in a half earlier in the season. Bell had 10 carries for 70 yards in the 3rd quarter that resulted in 2 scoring drives (including a TD run by Bell) to go up 30-6. He had 2 carries in the 4th quarter before he was pulled out of the game. Given he had 30 carries the next week in Divisional Round, I don't think his hamstring was effected by being overplayed.

If you want to argue that they didn't take him out enough during season with a capable RB like DeAngelo Williams to spell him, I will agree.

Thanks for the info but Tomlin ran BELL's wheels off. He had a heavy season work load and then a heavy playoff load. Add all that useage up and yes, injury can happen easier than expected. BELL never complained about all the touches, remeber to add in the pass plays as well. I don't have the numbers but it was because of ALL his touches he was on the leader board in performance totals but not ypc or ypr. I'm not taking anything awaay from BELL i'm just saying Tomlin as a head coach could have governed Bell a little more smartly.




Salute the nation

 

[FSF]

I am somewhat in the middle. He never revisited that success but he still had the success to begin with. So I can't take that SB win away from him anymore than I can overlook his less than desirable results as of late. We all know this is a what have you done for me lately league though. And lately his late season results are below the line.

I feel you. I truly believe that bad luck intervened (just as much as I'll say good luck helped them out along the way on wins). You gotta be healthy going into the playoffs to make a run and the primary RB was injured in the final game of the season 2011, 2014 and 2015.

During that whole "Killer B's" stretch of 2014-2018: they played the Patriots 5x, going 1-4 (getting screwed on the Jesse James TD) but never played a game vs. Steelers when all 3 were playing. However when we were supposed to play the Patriots vs. a suspended Brady - he was allowed to protest and play. Bullshit.

 

[FSF]

Thanks for the info but Tomlin ran BELL's wheels off. He had a heavy season work load and then a heavy playoff load. Add all that useage up and yes, injury can happen easier than expected. BELL never complained about all the touches, remeber to add in the pass plays as well. I don't have the numbers but it was because of ALL his touches he was on the leader board in performance totals but not ypc or ypr. I'm not taking anything awaay from BELL i'm just saying Tomlin as a head coach could have governed Bell a little more smartly.




Salute the nation

I'm whole heartedly in agreement with that point. DeAngelo Williams needed to be out on the field spelling him throughout the entire season. I know he never came off the field in the playoffs, but that's kinda what you do in the playoffs. All season long, not so much - and I have had a grievance about his doing that with Willie Parker and Mendenhall before Bell, as with 2018 James Conner afterwards.

 

[diver]

No. The head coach is in charge of the team, the team's philosophy, and the game plan.

I disagree to some extent. I think you have to factor in what the players you have strengths and weaknesses are when developing that philosophy and gameplan. Maybe even what their attitudes are, unfortunately.

I question Ben's ability and willingness to do some of the things needed to make this offense look less predictable. You all blame the coach, which I agree with, but I do not think it is that simple. I think the $25 million a year QB has some influence on things as well.

I don't know if we would ever truly know. For example, last year I remember remarking early in the year that they were fun to watch again. Doing some different things and the like. It all went away, and they were terrible to watch. Was that all the coach, or was the QB limited?

 

[Steelr4evr]

My new hobby is trolling the Tomlin nut-huggers in the Steelers FB groups and saying everything he won he did with Cowher's players and assistant coaches.
I'm not wrong though.

Just facts. I am still waiting for ..

 

[Steelmann]

I feel you. I truly believe that bad luck intervened (just as much as I'll say good luck helped them out along the way on wins). You gotta be healthy going into the playoffs to make a run and the primary RB was injured in the final game of the season 2011, 2014 and 2015.

During that whole "Killer B's" stretch of 2014-2018: they played the Patriots 5x, going 1-4 (getting screwed on the Jesse James TD) but never played a game vs. Steelers when all 3 were playing. However when we were supposed to play the Patriots vs. a suspended Brady - he was allowed to protest and play. Bullshit.

While I hear what you were saying about Brady playing at the time,I was of the mind that was happy he did.
Who wanted to beat NE without him playing? So that you could always hear you only won because.......
Kind of like you are implying they only won because our killer b’s out were the reason they won.
To be the best,you should beat the best.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Just facts. I am still waiting for ..

Because we have to.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I disagree to some extent. I think you have to factor in what the players you have strengths and weaknesses are when developing that philosophy and gameplan. Maybe even what their attitudes are, unfortunately.

I question Ben's ability and willingness to do some of the things needed to make this offense look less predictable. You all blame the coach, which I agree with, but I do not think it is that simple. I think the $25 million a year QB has some influence on things as well.

I don't know if we would ever truly know. For example, last year I remember remarking early in the year that they were fun to watch again. Doing some different things and the like. It all went away, and they were terrible to watch. Was that all the coach, or was the QB limited?

I just can't get behind this. Tomlin should know Ben is a terrific quarterback capable of making plays few guys in the NFL can (or at least he used to be). However, we also know when Ben throws the ball 50+ times, it's usually not good. That's where Tomlin has to put his foot down and still allow the offense to be a passing attack, just with a more balanced approach with the ground game rather than completely abandoning it multiple years.

 

[diver]

I just can't get behind this. Tomlin should know Ben is a terrific quarterback capable of making plays few guys in the NFL can (or at least he used to be). However, we also know when Ben throws the ball 50+ times, it's usually not good. That's where Tomlin has to put his foot down and still allow the offense to be a passing attack, just with a more balanced approach with the ground game rather than completely abandoning it multiple years.

You say put his foot down. Are you prepared to yank the QB and play someone else if he will not or cannot do those things? Because I do believe by the end of the year last year that was the choice.

 

[topseed]

They have been active—but they’ve also had bad seasons in there (5-11 in 2015) and 3 straight 3rd place finishes after their Super Bowl win in 2012.

Granted Steelers have been better than Ravens since that SB win, but Steelers had “Killer Bs” - the Ravens were aggressively always trying to get better and we were more passive.

Overall, since 2012 the Ravens been 75-53 with only 2 playoff wins in 4 playoff appearances & 2 AFC North Championships.

In the same time since 2012, the Steelers have been 82-45-1, with 3 playoff wins in 5 playoff appearances & 4 AFC North Championships.

Omitting 2011 and 2012 from the records you listed there at the end seems a bit unfair to the Ravens, given that in those two years, they were 22-10 in the regular season, had five playoff victories, and won a Super Bowl. Baltimore won more postseason games in 2012 alone than Tomlin has in ten years.

Meanwhile, over that same 2-year timeframe, the Steelers went 20-12 and 0-1 in the playoffs --with Ben arguably in the prime of his career at the ages of 29 and 30.

 

[SteelerFan448]

You say put his foot down. Are you prepared to yank the QB and play someone else if he will not or cannot do those things? Because I do believe by the end of the year last year that was the choice.

So the coaches options are abandoned the run when the weather turns cold in November and throw the ball 50-60 times a game OR bench your HOF QB? Got it.

 

[diver]

So the coaches options are abandoned the run when the weather turns cold in November and throw the ball 50-60 times a game OR bench your HOF QB? Got it.

You know that is not what I am saying. I am questioning whether the QB could do the things to make the running game viable, like get under center. You take a lot away from the running game, heck the offense as a whole if the QB is never under center. Why was he never under center? Health? Coaches choice? Unwillingness? You seem to think it is all on the coach. I disagree. Not all, anyway. In the event, we saw more running and creativity earlier in the year. Why did it go away? Tomlin just decided he didn't want to run anymore. C'mon, stop being so damn simple. So if you have a QB who cannot due to health, or will not due to attitude, you said to put his foot down. What is he to do?

 

[Coryea]

You know that is not what I am saying. I am questioning whether the QB could do the things to make the running game viable, like get under center. You take a lot away from the running game, heck the offense as a whole if the QB is never under center. Why was he never under center? Health? Coaches choice? Unwillingness? You seem to think it is all on the coach. I disagree. Not all, anyway. In the event, we saw more running and creativity earlier in the year. Why did it go away? Tomlin just decided he didn't want to run anymore. C'mon, stop being so damn simple. So if you have a QB who cannot due to health, or will not due to attitude, you said to put his foot down. What is he to do?

Teams started stacking the box and LOS taking the running game and jet sweeps away, which resulted in killing the entire "throw short run long offense" especially once teams saw the line couldn't block for longer than 2 seconds. look at the long TD to CLaypool vs Denver, Ben drops back and when his back foot sets he throws it, and he is nailed as soon as he let it go.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

 

[FSF]

Omitting 2011 and 2012 from the records you listed there at the end seems a bit unfair to the Ravens, given that in those two years, they were 22-10 in the regular season, had five playoff victories, and won a Super Bowl. Baltimore won more postseason games in 2012 alone than Tomlin has in ten years.

Meanwhile, over that same 2-year timeframe, the Steelers went 20-12 and 0-1 in the playoffs --with Ben arguably in the prime of his career at the ages of 29 and 30.

What about it makes it unfair?

Although Ben’s best years statistically were ahead of him, Joe Flacco was in his prime too.

By 2011, age & injury caught up with Steelers & they had major roster turnover. I’d argue that “best” Ravens team of their run - the team that “should have won” was 2011 and they were showing the cracks by 2012. They did have a similar dynamic to our 2005 team - rallying around retiring Ray Lewis to be better than the sum of their parts to win Super Bowl.

Starting in 2013, Ravens started to have massive turnover on their roster as well due age, injury and players departing happened too.

It’s a fair and open comparison between 2 teams that had overlapping Championship caliber teams for # of years at same time & had to rebuild around same time.

They both did well - Steelers overall slightly better but bottom line neither won or even reached Super Bowl.

After 9 year stretch where they combined:
184-104 (Steelers 97-47, Ravens 87-57)
Best record:
2004 Steelers 15-1
2006 Ravens 13-3
7x AFN Champs
5x - 1st/2nd seed (bye week)
17-8 playoff record
7 AFCCG appearances
4 SB - 3 wins

It’s 8 years with:
6 AFC North Champs
Best Record:
2017 Steelers: 13-3
2019 Ravens: 14-2
2x 1st/2nd seed (bye)
5-8 playoff record
1 AFGCG combined.

So the more playoff wins in 2012 than Tomlin crap applies to Harbaugh too.

I grade the Steelers overall better with drafting but fell into period of being too passive. They didn’t make any meaningful trades, the “biggest” FA they got was Mike Mitchell (kinda makes you think of what team would have been if we signed Dexter Jackson vs. trading up for Troy in 2003.) The “best” FA was RB DeAngelo Williams & he was meant for backup role. Not until the Browns foolishly cut Joe Haden did we get better thru FA. And not until after the 2018 Brown/Bell drama-filled implosion did they actively pursue trades & FA again.

Ravens didn’t draft as well, but were more aggressive: 2021 will be 2nd time in 4 seasons they have multiple 1st round picks. They were quick to move 2018 1st round bust Hayden Hurst to move up in 2nd for RB JK Dobbins. Getting Marcus Peters for a 5th was unreal. They realize they won’t likely keep Brown at OT—hence turning a 3rd rounder into draft capital.

Sad part is Steelers traded up in 2018 for a 3rd & could have taken Orlando Brown, but used pick on Mason Rudolph & later in 3rd took Okorafor.

The one thing that’s remained remarkably consistent with Steelers & Ravens besides overall fielding contending teams...

Ravens can find & draft DBs but not WRs.
Steelers can draft WRs unlike anyone but cannot draft DBs at all.

 

[Coach]

Mikey has only won a playoff game in 4 of 14 seasons, and most of those years were early with Bill Cowher's players. That last playoff win we had was in the 2016 season.

 

[polythemus]

You say put his foot down. Are you prepared to yank the QB and play someone else if he will not or cannot do those things? Because I do believe by the end of the year last year that was the choice.

Yes. he should have been pulled several times last year but he would never do it. After the 2nd or 3rd INT you get pulled. I grew up watching the NFL when that happened on the regular no matter who you were.

 

[topseed]

What about it makes it unfair?

Although Ben’s best years statistically were ahead of him, Joe Flacco was in his prime too.

By 2011, age & injury caught up with Steelers & they had major roster turnover. I’d argue that “best” Ravens team of their run - the team that “should have won” was 2011 and they were showing the cracks by 2012. They did have a similar dynamic to our 2005 team - rallying around retiring Ray Lewis to be better than the sum of their parts to win Super Bowl.

Starting in 2013, Ravens started to have massive turnover on their roster as well due age, injury and players departing happened too.

It’s a fair and open comparison between 2 teams that had overlapping Championship caliber teams for # of years at same time & had to rebuild around same time.

They both did well - Steelers overall slightly better but bottom line neither won or even reached Super Bowl.

After 9 year stretch where they combined:
184-104 (Steelers 97-47, Ravens 87-57)
Best record:
2004 Steelers 15-1
2006 Ravens 13-3
7x AFN Champs
5x - 1st/2nd seed (bye week)
17-8 playoff record
7 AFCCG appearances
4 SB - 3 wins

It’s 8 years with:
6 AFC North Champs
Best Record:
2017 Steelers: 13-3
2019 Ravens: 14-2
2x 1st/2nd seed (bye)
5-8 playoff record
1 AFGCG combined.

So the more playoff wins in 2012 than Tomlin crap applies to Harbaugh too.

I grade the Steelers overall better with drafting but fell into period of being too passive. They didn’t make any meaningful trades, the “biggest” FA they got was Mike Mitchell (kinda makes you think of what team would have been if we signed Dexter Jackson vs. trading up for Troy in 2003.) The “best” FA was RB DeAngelo Williams & he was meant for backup role. Not until the Browns foolishly cut Joe Haden did we get better thru FA. And not until after the 2018 Brown/Bell drama-filled implosion did they actively pursue trades & FA again.

Ravens didn’t draft as well, but were more aggressive: 2021 will be 2nd time in 4 seasons they have multiple 1st round picks. They were quick to move 2018 1st round bust Hayden Hurst to move up in 2nd for RB JK Dobbins. Getting Marcus Peters for a 5th was unreal. They realize they won’t likely keep Brown at OT—hence turning a 3rd rounder into draft capital.

Sad part is Steelers traded up in 2018 for a 3rd & could have taken Orlando Brown, but used pick on Mason Rudolph & later in 3rd took Okorafor.

The one thing that’s remained remarkably consistent with Steelers & Ravens besides overall fielding contending teams...

Ravens can find & draft DBs but not WRs.
Steelers can draft WRs unlike anyone but cannot draft DBs at all.

Joe Flacco in his prime? You're kidding, right? This guy only has a passer rating over 90 twice in his entire career, so please don't try and compare Harbaugh having his services to Tomlin having Ben, a future first-ballot Hall of Famer.

What made it unfair was your exclusion of the Ravens' Super Bowl season and 4 playoff wins, which happen to be (conveniently for you) just one year removed from your "starting in 2013" record assessment. It's reverse cherry-picking. You're making assertions about there being rebuilding years for both franchises, yet your compilation left out 2012, when the Steelers were 8-8 and in rebuild mode (according to you), while the Ravens reached the pinnacle of the sport in that same year.

How does the fact that Baltimore won more playoff games in 2012 than Tomlin has in the last ten years make it "crap"? It's not crap, it's the truth. And how exactly would it apply negatively to Harbaugh?

 

[KCSTEELER]

3 years? ****!!!!!

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Starting in 2013, Ravens started to have massive turnover on their roster as well due age, injury and players departing happened too.

Also remember that Unibrow turned down the Rats offer for an extension before the season, won the Super Bowl, and sucked up so much cap room that they had to release or not resign a number of role players.

 

[FSF]

Joe Flacco in his prime? You're kidding, right? This guy only has a passer rating over 90 twice in his entire career, so please don't try and compare Harbaugh having his services to Tomlin having Ben, a future first-ballot Hall of Famer.

What made it unfair was your exclusion of the Ravens' Super Bowl season and 4 playoff wins, which happen to be (conveniently for you) just one year removed from your "starting in 2013" record assessment. It's reverse cherry-picking. You're making assertions about there being rebuilding years for both franchises, yet your compilation left out 2012, when the Steelers were 8-8 and in rebuild mode (according to you), while the Ravens reached the pinnacle of the sport in that same year.

How does the fact that Baltimore won more playoff games in 2012 than Tomlin has in the last ten years make it "crap"? It's not crap, it's the truth. And how exactly would it apply negatively to Harbaugh?

Joe Flacco in his prime? You're kidding, right? This guy only has a passer rating over 90 twice in his entire career, so please don't try and compare Harbaugh having his services to Tomlin having Ben, a future first-ballot Hall of Famer.

What made it unfair was your exclusion of the Ravens' Super Bowl season and 4 playoff wins, which happen to be (conveniently for you) just one year removed from your "starting in 2013" record assessment. It's reverse cherry-picking. You're making assertions about there being rebuilding years for both franchises, yet your compilation left out 2012, when the Steelers were 8-8 and in rebuild mode (according to you), while the Ravens reached the pinnacle of the sport in that same year.

How does the fact that Baltimore won more playoff games in 2012 than Tomlin has in the last ten years make it "crap"? It's not crap, it's the truth. And how exactly would it apply negatively to Harbaugh?

What makes you say I “conveniently for you” started a comparison in 2013?

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Bernard Pollard, Cary Williams (3/4 of their starting secondary), Anquan Bolden, Matt Birk, Ma’ake Kemoeatu, Dannell Elerbe — all starters from 2012 but no longer by 20

Ray Rice, Vonte Leach, Ed Dickson, Corey Graham—gone after 2013.

Not certain what you’d consider a major roster turnover is, but I’m measuring it by it coinciding with departures of Ward, Ike, Hampton, Farrior, Mendenhall, Wallace, Clark, Woodley, etc.

I’m confused with how a long run of success for both teams, ended approximately the same time with a factual turnover on rosters is “being unfair” to Ravens?

What better point to start evaluating their relative performance since rebuilding than when they both were 8-8?

 

[topseed]

What makes you say I “conveniently for you” started a comparison in 2013?

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Bernard Pollard, Cary Williams (3/4 of their starting secondary), Anquan Bolden, Matt Birk, Ma’ake Kemoeatu, Dannell Elerbe — all starters from 2012 but no longer by 20

Ray Rice, Vonte Leach, Ed Dickson, Corey Graham—gone after 2013.

Not certain what you’d consider a major roster turnover is, but I’m measuring it by it coinciding with departures of Ward, Ike, Hampton, Farrior, Mendenhall, Wallace, Clark, Woodley, etc.

I’m confused with how a long run of success for both teams, ended approximately the same time with a factual turnover on rosters is “being unfair” to Ravens?

What better point to start evaluating their relative performance since rebuilding than when they both were 8-8?

lol

You're proving my point. You didn't include those first two Steelers "rebuilding years" which happened in 2011 and 2012, right? If you were including the same "factual turnover on rosters," your record comparison should have started in 2011 when Pittsburgh began to rebuild -- that way, the starting points for major roster turnover for both teams would have been fairly represented. But you didn't. You started in 2013. That's how it's unfair to the Ravens. I don't know how else to explain it to you.

 

[FSF]

lol

You're proving my point. You didn't include those first two Steelers "rebuilding years" which happened in 2011 and 2012, right? If you were including the same "factual turnover on rosters," your record comparison should have started in 2011 when Pittsburgh began to rebuild -- that way, the starting points for major roster turnover for both teams would have been fairly represented. But you didn't. You started in 2013. That's how it's unfair to the Ravens. I don't know how else to explain it to you.

So, the 12-4 Steelers of 2011 were rebuilding? I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

After 2011, Steelers roster began turnover.
After 2012, Ravens roster began turnover.

They were both 8-8 in 2013.
Difference of one year overlap on the backend of a period that Steelers had more success on the front end.

You hold onto that if it makes you warm & snugly. The point was comparing since those teams started over.

But you’re determined to think whatever it is you think. So enjoy doing so.