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Missing Pieces: What It Will Take For The Steelers To Win

We do need a No. 1 RB but it still all comes down to the BIG ******* UGLIES on both sides of the ball. I have said it since I first started posting on this forum 15+ years ago or however long it's been. BIG ******* UGLIES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, if they're mean, that is even better.
 
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Since we know the coach ain't going :

1) O-Line. Everywhere. Dire need. The reason Ben wasn't sacked but 14 times wasn't our awesome O-Line, it was quick routes/releases due to the leaking turnstile sieve that was our O-Line.
2) RB. This could actually get solved by the O-Line getting fixed. A great O-Line is a good cure all for average QBs and RBs.
3) Shed bad contracts/players. We tried to win it and failed miserably. Reason is unimportant, and I don't feel like beating a dead horse. Steelers ALWAYS spend to the cap limit, and we need to resign our studs, namely TJ and Minkah.

With our cap situation, and the age of a lot of our players, I unfortunately don't see this as a quick fix, or us being able to make "one last hurrah for Ben".
 
fedderone said:
Since we know the coach ain't going :

1) O-Line. Everywhere. Dire need. The reason Ben wasn't sacked but 14 times wasn't our awesome O-Line, it was quick routes/releases due to the leaking turnstile sieve that was our O-Line.
2) RB. This could actually get solved by the O-Line getting fixed. A great O-Line is a good cure all for average QBs and RBs.
3) Shed bad contracts/players. We tried to win it and failed miserably. Reason is unimportant, and I don't feel like beating a dead horse. Steelers ALWAYS spend to the cap limit, and we need to resign our studs, namely TJ and Minkah.

With our cap situation, and the age of a lot of our players, I unfortunately don't see this as a quick fix, or us being able to make "one last hurrah for Ben".
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If you watch the All 22 film, maybe Cope can elaborate more, the OL wasn’t the chief problem with the rushing offense, it was the backs not picking the right gaps from blocks to run through. Snell and McFarland missed the holes plenty of times. Conner had some misses as well. Not to say there were OL issues, they cropped up after DeCastro came back, plus the stale play calling didn’t help either.


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Ike Kelly said:
Agree to disagree 448. LT and C have been noted as the primary spots for new blood since last year. Either through FA or the draft. Of note, Banner was considered the better LT over Chuks. The beat writers, including Lolley, reported it numerous times. Dotson was a starter for several games (should have stayed). It’s not a reload if you were already starting. “Chuks is not good”. Says who? PFF? The OL allowed only 14 sacks, the entire year. That’s a little over a 2% sack rate. That’s fantastic pass protection in any circumstance. Earlier in the year when Dotson and Chuks were the right side, the rushing attack was producing several 100 yd games. Then for whatever reason Ben went to the short pass scheme.
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I'm not sure we disagree. When you are trying to replace or upgrade 40% of the offensive line and will likely break in a second-year guard into the lineup next year, that is 60% new starters. On top of this they only have one offensive lineman signed beyond 2021. What exactly do you consider being reloaded?

You don't need to look at PFF to evaluate Chucks. Just watch him on a weekly basis. Subpar run blocker and it was between him or Pouncey who struggled the most against the pass.


Losing FA is not the same as having a “cap situation”. They lose FA every single year because they spend to the cap keeping core players. “Quality” players is a very loose term on this board. There was zero chance Bud was going to be retained before he was injured, otherwise he wouldn’t have gotten the tag. Watt will get the large OLB contract. JuJu at this point is a luxury as they have 4 WR (3 draft picks) under contract already. I wouldn’t mind keeping him for the right price, but it isn’t a necessity. Conner is a role player and could be retained without disrupting the top 51.

The priority FA is definitely Sutton. He’s a better all around player than Hilton who is a liability in coverage. Hilton will be offered a contract elsewhere. The higher the better. Sutton if signed will be Haden’s replacement. His flexibility in run support/blitzes/zone would allow him to move inside on passing downs with Layne or Pierre on the boundary.

Additionally, I think Alualu is also a priority. He has been solid if not spectacular as the 3DL. Giving him an extension allows Buggs, Davis and another draft pick to take over in 23/24.
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That's fine if you don't value the players, but you cannot deny a cap issue entering the offseason. It's easier than most think to solve the cap issue, but the fact they need to restructure contracts and make cuts to get under the cap is a situation. Back to the UFAs, you still need depth players.

Dupree was no longer an option when they didn't decide to sign him to a market deal before his first deal was up. He was a late bloomer, but it was also poor development by the coaching staff evidenced by the flip flop with Watt and change in how they used both as primarily pass rushers. Now the Steelers need to count on Highsmith to draw some attention away from Watt or teams will just double down on him next year.

JuJu is a good receiver, especially when he's in the slot or they let him stretch the field. He may not be a true No. 1, but JuJu, Johnson, and Claypool is a heck of a lot better than Johnson, Claypool, and Washington. Wide receiver is conceivable a need entering the draft.

The Steelers could probably sign Hilton and Sutton for the price of Haden. With both hitting UFA, it's possible we lose both in favor of keeping Haden who may have one more good year left. Again, if they get contract extensions worked out before these players breakout and hit UFA, they get them at a lower price and have them locked in for years. It's been poor strategy and a change from how they used to build their teams for the present and future.
 
Ike Kelly said:
If you watch the All 22 film, maybe Cope can elaborate more, the OL wasn’t the chief problem with the rushing offense, it was the backs not picking the right gaps from blocks to run through. Snell and McFarland missed the holes plenty of times. Conner had some misses as well. Not to say there were OL issues, they cropped up after DeCastro came back, plus the stale play calling didn’t help either.
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If you watch the All 22 the primary issue is the offensive line play. They don't get any push in the running game--or rarely get push. The holes close up quickly, the interior of the line is stood up at the line or pushed into the backfield, Okorafor misses a block on the edge. It's not good. Conner, Snell, and McFarland couldn't produce as the season progressed. Three different backs with the constant as the offensive line. Play calling was up and down and there was zero commitment to the run. Did the backs leave some yards by missing some holes? Absolutely. However, a majority of the failed runs was the OL getting handled by the defensive front leaving linebackers running free to close the gaps and make the plays.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
I'm not sure we disagree. When you are trying to replace or upgrade 40% of the offensive line and will likely break in a second-year guard into the lineup next year, that is 60% new starters. On top of this they only have one offensive lineman signed beyond 2021. What exactly do you consider being reloaded?

You don't need to look at PFF to evaluate Chucks. Just watch him on a weekly basis. Subpar run blocker and it was between him or Pouncey who struggled the most against the pass.




That's fine if you don't value the players, but you cannot deny a cap issue entering the offseason. It's easier than most think to solve the cap issue, but the fact they need to restructure contracts and make cuts to get under the cap is a situation. Back to the UFAs, you still need depth players.

Dupree was no longer an option when they didn't decide to sign him to a market deal before his first deal was up. He was a late bloomer, but it was also poor development by the coaching staff evidenced by the flip flop with Watt and change in how they used both as primarily pass rushers. Now the Steelers need to count on Highsmith to draw some attention away from Watt or teams will just double down on him next year.

JuJu is a good receiver, especially when he's in the slot or they let him stretch the field. He may not be a true No. 1, but JuJu, Johnson, and Claypool is a heck of a lot better than Johnson, Claypool, and Washington. Wide receiver is conceivable a need entering the draft.

The Steelers could probably sign Hilton and Sutton for the price of Haden. With both hitting UFA, it's possible we lose both in favor of keeping Haden who may have one more good year left. Again, if they get contract extensions worked out before these players breakout and hit UFA, they get them at a lower price and have them locked in for years. It's been poor strategy and a change from how they used to build their teams for the present and future.
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It’s not a matter of not valuing players, it’s the economics of free agency. NO has a cap issue, PHI has a cap issue due to their exorbitant excess in contracts with dead money. PIT as well as the majority of the league have long restructured contracts and cut players (sometimes resigning them to cheaper deals). It’s part of the game now to have a “capologist” to help with financially building a team. It’s standard folklore that Mr. Rooney’s mantra is sign your own FA and build your team in the draft. Dabbling in outside FA infrequently. Since FA began in 93, PIT has always spent towards the cap max. It’s why they’ve been one of the most successful franchises. Teams that are flush with cap space or build through FA are not. A’la DAL, CIN, CLE, DET, etc.

I blame Porter on Bud’s slow progression. Interesting how he improved drastically when Tomlin/Buts made the decision to move him on the other side. The light came on fast after the move.

I’d like to keep JuJu as well, but the need isn’t a priority. I gotta say, Washington is underrated IMO. He just make plays whenever he’s thrown the ball. Why Randy didn’t put him on the field more often or why Ben didn’t target him more when he was on the field is one of 2020’s mysteries.

Seriously doubt we keep both Sutton and Hilton. Too much money. But it’s a good problem to have. In fact, I think Haden may be cut because of his cap charge. Unless he gets an extension. As mentioned previously, Sutton IMO is the better player than Hilton and some team is going to offer him big money because of his blitzing performance.

As for your last sentence, I don’t follow. They’ve been doing the same thing for close to 25 years. The only difference has been positional focal points, which is always cyclical. Because of the uncertainty of the cap this year, there has been talk of getting TJ’s extension done now rather than next year. It would reduce his 2021 cap charge of $10+ mil significantly, but spread out the signing bonus (or guaranteed money). His extension is going to be at Joey Bosa level numbers too.


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SteelerFan448 said:
If you watch the All 22 the primary issue is the offensive line play. They don't get any push in the running game--or rarely get push. The holes close up quickly, the interior of the line is stood up at the line or pushed into the backfield, Okorafor misses a block on the edge. It's not good. Conner, Snell, and McFarland couldn't produce as the season progressed. Three different backs with the constant as the offensive line. Play calling was up and down and there was zero commitment to the run. Did the backs leave some yards by missing some holes? Absolutely. However, a majority of the failed runs was the OL getting handled by the defensive front leaving linebackers running free to close the gaps and make the plays.
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I’ve watched a lot of the All 22 this year, and I’ll agree after the first 6 games, there was hardly any emphasis on the rushing attack. Either Ben and Randy got enamored with quick passes to DJ, or they just didn’t trust the RBs. But the OL, including Chuks did well in pass protect (even with the quick passes, notice how many batted balls there were? That’s on the QB.)

It’s behind a paywall, but Chris Carter at DKSports had a excellent article regarding all the RB in the stable did not execute or create plays on their own. We haven’t really had that type of player since Lev Bell either.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/...ames-conner-benny-snell-carters-classroom-cdc

While James could be brought back with a modest FA contract, there is no doubt a primary RB with intangibles will be drafted. At the least a better FA than Conner. Who that would be.....no idea. Why pay for RBs when you can get them much cheaper via the draft. Some of these draft gurus have us drafting two backs.


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The line issues are attitude, and this team hasn't had that lunch pail mentality is a long time.

Was it Russ Grim that said offensive linemen don't get a lot of accolades other than being able to impose their will on others, or something to that effect.
 
“The last thing a fan wants is to be stuck in QB purgatory for 20 years, just ask Cleveland Browns‘ and New York Jets‘ fans.”

Some of us are old enough to already know that story



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Ike Kelly said:
As for your last sentence, I don’t follow. They’ve been doing the same thing for close to 25 years. The only difference has been positional focal points, which is always cyclical. Because of the uncertainty of the cap this year, there has been talk of getting TJ’s extension done now rather than next year. It would reduce his 2021 cap charge of $10+ mil significantly, but spread out the signing bonus (or guaranteed money). His extension is going to be at Joey Bosa level numbers too.
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They've been signing their young players to contract extensions before hitting free agency in the past. The last couple of years they're letting their own guys hit free agency. Sutton and Hilton never should've reached UFA as I would've signed them to extensions last season. Instead both played well, increased their value and potential contract demands. Assuming the extensions aren't done prior to the start of free agency, now the Steelers will have to outbid other teams.
 
One has to be delusional or outright deranged to believe the oline played even remotely well last season.

Hopefully, Tomlin and Colbert do not approach the offseason with that view.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
They've been signing their young players to contract extensions before hitting free agency in the past. The last couple of years they're letting their own guys hit free agency. Sutton and Hilton never should've reached UFA as I would've signed them to extensions last season. Instead both played well, increased their value and potential contract demands. Assuming the extensions aren't done prior to the start of free agency, now the Steelers will have to outbid other teams.
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In the far past maybe they did, but I can only recall just a handful other than first rounders since the early 2010s. AB got his because Wallace said no to it first. They signed Gilbert, Williams, Tuitt, Big Al, Chickillo, McCullers off their first contracts. They tried with Bell, Hargraves and Davis. But as everyone knows you can’t keep everyone.

Teams are allowed to negotiate with their FA up to two days before FA starts (3/17). So that gives them a big advantage, maybe Bud or JuJu could get resigned, depending on the 2021 cap. but they really need Sutton (preferably) or Hilton locked up. Signing Fieler or Banner (cheaper) is a need as well. If Bince isn’t cut, then Williamson would be need a hard look.


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FSF said:
“The last thing a fan wants is to be stuck in QB purgatory for 20 years, just ask Cleveland Browns‘ and New York Jets‘ fans.”

Some of us are old enough to already know that story



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Click to expand...

Kordell Stewart, Mike Tomzack, Kent Graham and Tommy Maddox is as far back as I can remember
 
Kordell,Tommy Gun, and O'donnell gave us some good moments. I wouldn't lump them in with the scrubs.

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