This loss is on TOMLIN

[Drink IRON City]

I am no Tomlin fanboy, but tge defense is much of his doing... he and butler modified the front 7 pass rush into the magnificent pressure cooker you see now

He deserves a lot of credit for that.... x’s and o’s credit... its legitimatly original stuff... they tweaked the dline duties in a 3/4...

They also at one time had 10 1st round picks on that starting defense. Of course it better be incredible. I give credit but also remember too.




Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

A pick six can be overcome. The problem in that game was that the D could not stop ARod, this was after having the Jets by the throat in the 1st half of the AFCC and then letting them almost take the game after half. IMHO, TB was a worse QB from the perspective of throwing picks and making dumb mistakes, yet somehow those teams were able to overcome those mistakes and win when it counted. Very similar players in terms of impact and style actually, BB and TB. The difference is the HC, from philosophy to strategy to tactics.

DON'T be comparing a ******* cheating franchise to us, especially in sccess. The difference was the HC who cheated and the HC who didn't. Pick any other franchise / HC / players but don't pick those cheating MFer's because you can't determine the "honest Abe" percentage VS the "cheating MFer's" percentage.





Salute the nation

 

[slashsteel]

They also at one time had 10 1st round picks on that starting defense. Of course it better be incredible. I give credit but also remember too.




Salute the nation

Yes and no. No being they still have to develop those players. Like a 1st rounder that is so so and moves the another team and all of a sudden presto majico they play better. We have a Samoan that can identify.

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[dv13]

DON'T be comparing a ******* cheating franchise to us, especially in sccess. The difference was the HC who cheated and the HC who didn't. Pick any other franchise / HC / players but don't pick those cheating MFer's because you can't determine the "honest Abe" percentage VS the "cheating MFer's" percentage.





Salute the nation

TB in my post was Terry Bradshaw....not Tom Brady. The difference in coaching was due to Noll. And I completely stand by it. Noll > > > Tomlin and there is no question there in any phase of coaching. It's a shame this ownership is willing to settle.

 

[Drink IRON City]

TB in my post was Terry Bradshaw....not Tom Brady. The difference in coaching was due to Noll. And I completely stand by it. Noll > > > Tomlin and there is no question there in any phase of coaching. It's a shame this ownership is willing to settle.

About time we had some esplainiN. No worries but you can see my point about the cheating BASTAGES of MASSholeville. Your post makes perfect sense and If I would have read it closer the first time would have made sense as well but TB was seen as t*mmyb*y and my eyes turned RED from there. Well you can see the results.


Your post is pretty spot on.





Salute the nation

 

[topseed]

Just curious. Can you name specific examples where our TOs weren't properly utilized this year?

I chronicled it on page 4 of this very thread:

I'll comment on it -- I totally disagreed with Moose Johnston's assessment that Tomlin's use of timeouts was such a "nice job."

First of all, if you're going to start calling timeouts before the 2-minute warning, call one after Sims makes the catch on the 27 with over 3 minutes left. Instead, he allows them to roll 40 seconds off, run it, and he then calls for time on 2nd-and-8 at the 2:17 mark. At that point, you have to sacrifice those 17 seconds in order to maintain 3 timeouts. You have to wait and see what the artists formerly known as the Redskins do on 2nd and 3rd down, because if they happen to get the first down subsequently, you can still preserve most of the two minutes if you stop them on the next set of downs. The two plays Washington ended up running were both passes, one of which was incomplete, and took only ten seconds of the clock. The field goal took three seconds.

So had Tomlin let it run to the 2-minute warning first, they would have had 1:47 on the clock and TWO timeouts left. That would have given Ben close to a minute on the final drive, instead of just a few seconds.

Tomlin had had a pretty good season with clock management...until today.

 

[Stryker]

I chronicled it on page 4 of this very thread:

I'll comment on it -- I totally disagreed with Moose Johnston's assessment that Tomlin's use of timeouts was such a "nice job."

First of all, if you're going to start calling timeouts before the 2-minute warning, call one after Sims makes the catch on the 27 with over 3 minutes left. Instead, he allows them to roll 40 seconds off, run it, and he then calls for time on 2nd-and-8 at the 2:17 mark. At that point, you have to sacrifice those 17 seconds in order to maintain 3 timeouts. You have to wait and see what the artists formerly known as the Redskins do on 2nd and 3rd down, because if they happen to get the first down subsequently, you can still preserve most of the two minutes if you stop them on the next set of downs. The two plays Washington ended up running were both passes, one of which was incomplete, and took only ten seconds of the clock. The field goal took three seconds.

So had Tomlin let it run to the 2-minute warning first, they would have had 1:47 on the clock and TWO timeouts left. That would have given Ben close to a minute on the final drive, instead of just a few seconds.

Tomlin had had a pretty good season with clock management...until today.

Thanks Topseed. You also have to put into game context. You are discounting the fact that the Steelers were treating the previous drive like their last chance to get the football. In end game/2 minute scenarios the thought is you try to maintain 1 TO at least and 2min.

The Steelers chose to go with allowing the 2 min warning to serve as a clock stopper, though I agree with you, I think having the extra TO here, but on 2nd down, when the TO was taken, but you did not know what the Redskins were going to do on 3rd down. They passed, and stopped the clock with an incompletion. So if they chose to run the ball in this instance or completed the ball short of the line to gain, the 2min warning was there to stop the clock and the Steelers would have still had 1 TO with just under 2min to play. That's what the Steelers were playing for, but an incompletion actually helped them with their TO management, and gave them an extra play before the 2min warning.

At this point in end game, you are not calculating a first down interception and playing to get the ball back again, which the Steelers still did, but winning percentages are very small when it comes to these scenarios anyway.

 

[Steelworth]

Sarcasm really is too difficult for some people to comprehend.

Mainly just Coach.

 

[madinsomniac]

TB in my post was Terry Bradshaw....not Tom Brady. The difference in coaching was due to Noll. And I completely stand by it. Noll > > > Tomlin and there is no question there in any phase of coaching. It's a shame this ownership is willing to settle.

There are no Nolls in the nfl right now. Tomlin isn’t even close to perfect and has lots of holes, but so does every coach because they use ex players and the peter principle instead of using people with strategy backgrounds....

Tomlin is a hands down HOF coach, just like cowher was... and both were flawed as hell...

The closest thing to a noll or shula is sir cheatsalot... and that dude marred his name with cheating out his ***....A lot of tge non dispicable things he did were pretty solid strategies... but even he flibs end of game or half from time to time

 

[Ike Kelly]

TB in my post was Terry Bradshaw....not Tom Brady. The difference in coaching was due to Noll. And I completely stand by it. Noll > > > Tomlin and there is no question there in any phase of coaching. It's a shame this ownership is willing to settle.

Ownership is wiling to settle? What are they willing to settle? The head coach? The coach they have is 3rd on the list of all time winning percentage in the regular season and playoffs combined. Has 2 SB appearances, one Lombardi. The same as his predecessor.

Chuck Noll, no doubt is the standard, and there will never be another one like him. (I do not count Belicheat, for obvious reasons). But let’s not forget his last 10 years were below average, and he even said he knew it was. His era of coaching would never work in this era. The CBA wouldn’t allow it.


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[dv13]

Ownership is wiling to settle? What are they willing to settle? The head coach? The coach they have is 3rd on the list of all time winning percentage in the regular season and playoffs combined. Has 2 SB appearances, one Lombardi. The same as his predecessor.

Chuck Noll, no doubt is the standard, and there will never be another one like him. (I do not count Belicheat, for obvious reasons). But let’s not forget his last 10 years were below average, and he even said he knew it was. His era of coaching would never work in this era. The CBA wouldn’t allow it.


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My opinion is being in the same position for that period of time has an impact. Tomlin's one SB victory was in his 2nd year with a hand me down team and staff....Barry Switzer has the same claim that MT does on being a great NFL coach, right?? MT has shown time and time again that he has difficulty mentally preparing his teams. Maybe he needs to "unleash hell" again to prove that to you. Clock management has been a problem throughout his tenure, challenges are not decided upon correctly, adjustments are not made, the list goes on. What have all those regular season wins given us over the past 10 years? One and out playoff appearances losing to inferior teams? Is that what Tomlin fans are happy with?

 

[dv13]

Let's see what Andy Reid ends up doing with KC this year and beyond before we make any hasty proclamations. MT has had teams that IMO were more talented than this or last years Chiefs and have been unable to get through even one playoff game. 2017 season, great example of that. I hope MT can prove me wrong , turn the ship around, and make things happen this year. He has a great defense, HOF QB, very good (though very UNFOCUSED) WRs, two good TEs, good RBs and a line that still has players who used to be able to run block. There are no excuses if this team doesn't make it to at least the AFCC and even beyond that IMO. Focusing players and staff is a buck stops here job for the HC; if he can't do that, it's time to move on.

 

[43Hitman]

You lost me and all credibility at Barry Switzer.

 

[Ike Kelly]

My opinion is being in the same position for that period of time has an impact. Tomlin's one SB victory was in his 2nd year with a hand me down team and staff....Barry Switzer has the same claim that MT does on being a great NFL coach, right?? MT has shown time and time again that he has difficulty mentally preparing his teams. Maybe he needs to "unleash hell" again to prove that to you. Clock management has been a problem throughout his tenure, challenges are not decided upon correctly, adjustments are not made, the list goes on. What have all those regular season wins given us over the past 10 years? One and out playoff appearances losing to inferior teams? Is that what Tomlin fans are happy with?

Let's see what Andy Reid ends up doing with KC this year and beyond before we make any hasty proclamations. MT has had teams that IMO were more talented than this or last years Chiefs and have been unable to get through even one playoff game. 2017 season, great example of that. I hope MT can prove me wrong , turn the ship around, and make things happen this year. He has a great defense, HOF QB, very good (though very UNFOCUSED) WRs, two good TEs, good RBs and a line that still has players who used to be able to run block. There are no excuses if this team doesn't make it to at least the AFCC and even beyond that IMO. Focusing players and staff is a buck stops here job for the HC; if he can't do that, it's time to move on.

How much longer has Andy been coaching than Tomlin? 7 years. How many SB’s has Andy been in? How long was he coaching KC before he got Mahomes? Andy has W/L Playoff Average that’s less than Tomlin? And that’s still after Tomlin not winning a playoff game in 3 years.

All your points are valid concerns but every HC goes has them. Every one. Well, except maybe Belicheat.


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[dv13]

How much longer has Andy been coaching than Tomlin? 7 years. How many SB’s has Andy been in? How long was he coaching KC before he got Mahomes? Andy has W/L Playoff Average that’s less than Tomlin? And that’s still after Tomlin not winning a playoff game in 3 years.

All your points are valid concerns but every HC goes has them. Every one. Well, except maybe Belicheat.


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Just imagine what Reid would have done with BR in his prime and the Steelers teams of the past 13 years.....

 

[Punxsutawney]

Tomlin has reached only one AFC title game in the past decade since the last Superbowl appearance.

At some point, an organization has to assess what its goals are and whether the man in charge is capable of achieving them.

The league is constantly evolving and just because Tomlin did it 12 years ago does not mean he's capable now.

 

[Stryker]

A lot of teams not named NE feel this way. Look at GB, look at NO. These are direct parallels and the exact same arguments. And those teams don't have NE in their conference so what is their excuse for missing SBs? Oh yeah, it's a game where the other team is trying to win and injuries can become a factor.

A lot of you one and dunners are forgetting an AFCC run in 17 that we would have had if Shazier didn't lose the ability to play football. Life sucks sometimes, and teams do the best they can to make it to the promise land. Want to find the meddle of a coach? How do they do when they're down to their 3rd and 4th rostered QBs?

I know how Tomlin did.

How'd GB do since their last SB win? No appearances and 2 losing seasons in a row with Aaron Rogers at QB
NO since their last SB? 1 NFCC and 4 losing seasons
BAL since theirs? a 5-11 season and a 1-3 post season record
Steelers had another SB appearance, an AFCC and no losing seasons.

You guys starting to understand how this narrative sounds now?

 

[Punxsutawney]

A lot of teams not named NE feel this way. Look at GB, look at NO. These are direct parallels and the exact same arguments. And those teams don't have NE in their conference so what is their excuse for missing SBs? Oh yeah, it's a game where the other team is trying to win and injuries can become a factor.

A lot of you one and dunners are forgetting an AFCC run in 17 that we would have had if Shazier didn't lose the ability to play football. Life sucks sometimes, and teams do the best they can to make it to the promise land. Want to find the meddle of a coach? How do they do when they're down to their 3rd and 4th rostered QBs?

I know how Tomlin did.

How'd GB do since their last SB win? No appearances and 2 losing seasons in a row with Aaron Rogers at QB
NO since their last SB? 1 NFCC and 4 losing seasons
BAL since theirs? a 5-11 season and a 1-3 post season record
Steelers had another SB appearance, an AFCC and no losing seasons.

You guys starting to understand how this narrative sounds now?

Well, the Packers eventually fired Mike McCarthy, and it's hard to assess the situations with the Ravens and Saints as I do not follow them as closely as I do the Steelers, but Harbaugh has never had a QB the caliber of Roethlisberger.

Sean Payton has, but he basically functions as the Saints offensive coordinator as well as head coach and the Saints offense is always among the best in the league, so it is not really an apple to apples comparison to Tomlin.

Also, pinning the 2017 one-and-done playoff appearance on Shazier's injury is ridiculous. The Steelers defense gave up 35 points to the Jaguars in that game.

It was a Jaguars offense that scored only 26 points combined in their other two playoff games that season.

There was no excuse for it, and following that up with the second half collapse in 2018 was more than sufficient grounds to can Tomlin. We can also add the defensive debacle in New England to conclude the 2016 season as well.

In hindsight, that three year period was the end of Roethlisberger's prime, and Tomlin pissed it away.

 

[Zack_of_Steel]

A lot of teams not named NE feel this way. Look at GB, look at NO. These are direct parallels and the exact same arguments. And those teams don't have NE in their conference so what is their excuse for missing SBs? Oh yeah, it's a game where the other team is trying to win and injuries can become a factor.

A lot of you one and dunners are forgetting an AFCC run in 17 that we would have had if Shazier didn't lose the ability to play football. Life sucks sometimes, and teams do the best they can to make it to the promise land. Want to find the meddle of a coach? How do they do when they're down to their 3rd and 4th rostered QBs?

I know how Tomlin did.

How'd GB do since their last SB win? No appearances and 2 losing seasons in a row with Aaron Rogers at QB
NO since their last SB? 1 NFCC and 4 losing seasons
BAL since theirs? a 5-11 season and a 1-3 post season record
Steelers had another SB appearance, an AFCC and no losing seasons.

You guys starting to understand how this narrative sounds now?

As Punxsutawney said, there are other variables in play here. Chief among those? None of those teams had Colbert, Khan, and the rosters they provided. None of them had a HoF DC and loaded defensive teams.

McCarthy, one of the best comparisons to Tomlin as a coach, was considered a lame duck and having wasted Rodgers. They haven't had as much talent as the Steelers and have basically been the same franchise as the Steelers since 2010--wasting the last 2/3 of their HoF QB's career with adherence to a bumpkin coach.

NO has had literally some of the worst defenses ever. The one year they got some production out of the D they won the SB. They barely lost to one of the best defenses ever in 2013. They probably make the SB the last 2 seasons also if not for the bullshit reffing against the Rams and the ridiculous non-tackle on Diggs the year before.

BAL got lucky with Flacco heaves and 2948729847 holds on the KR in the SB. They've never had a HoF QB so throwing them into this argument makes no sense as it is not analogous.

 

[Coryea]

As Punxsutawney said, there are other variables in play here. Chief among those? None of those teams had Colbert, Khan, and the rosters they provided. None of them had a HoF DC and loaded defensive teams.

McCarthy, one of the best comparisons to Tomlin as a coach, was considered a lame duck and having wasted Rodgers. They haven't had as much talent as the Steelers and have basically been the same franchise as the Steelers since 2010--wasting the last 2/3 of their HoF QB's career with adherence to a bumpkin coach.

NO has had literally some of the worst defenses ever. The one year they got some production out of the D they won the SB. They barely lost to one of the best defenses ever in 2013. They probably make the SB the last 2 seasons also if not for the bullshit reffing against the Rams and the ridiculous non-tackle on Diggs the year before.

BAL got lucky with Flacco heaves and 2948729847 holds on the KR in the SB. They've never had a HoF QB so throwing them into this argument makes no sense as it is not analogous.

And people ***** about Ben's deep ball, that ball Flacco threw vs Denver was such a lob shot, the Denver DB had an easy INT to end the game and he fell or mis judged the ball and Smith caught it like a punt and ran it in for a TD.

 

[SteelerFan448]

How much longer has Andy been coaching than Tomlin? 7 years. How many SB’s has Andy been in? How long was he coaching KC before he got Mahomes? Andy has W/L Playoff Average that’s less than Tomlin? And that’s still after Tomlin not winning a playoff game in 3 years.

All your points are valid concerns but every HC goes has them. Every one. Well, except maybe Belicheat.

Andy Reid's career has been very impressive. I didn't even realize how good he's been.
*15 of 22 years with 10 or more wins.
*17 of 22 years above .500 record.
*Only 3 seasons below .500.
*11 division championships including 5 in a row.
*16 playoff appearances (including this year).
*Won at least one playoff game in 10 seasons.
*7 Conference Championship Game appearances.
*2 Super Bowl appearances.
*1 Super Bowl title.
*62.9% winning percentage in regular season (219-129-1)
*15-14 in the playoffs.

Just for comparison, here's Tomlin.
*9 of 14 years with 10 or more wins.
*11 of 14 years above .500 record.
*0 seasons below .500.
*6 division championships (will be 7 with a win this week).
*9 playoff appearances (including this year).
*Won at least one playoff game in 4 seasons.
*3 Conference Championship Game appearances.
*2 Super Bowl appearances.
*1 Super Bowl title.
*65.4% winning percentage in the regular season (144-76-1)
*8-7 in the playoffs.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Just imagine what Reid would have done with BR in his prime and the Steelers teams of the past 13 years.....

In the NFC with Philly? He would have dominated the NFC. They would have ran Ben out of town with some of those INTs in crucial situations, though. With KC, still had Belicheat making tapes.

But thinking Andy handling the play calling and game planning on offense......hmmmm...Serendipity.


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[jitter77]

Tomlin babble

"Really, we make our decisions about the mode in which we work, and that’s what you speak of. We work week-in and week-out to determine when and what that looks like. What are the advantages of it? There are a lot of variables at play. We make those decisions week-to-week based on a lot of variables— our makeup and our ability to execute the challenges of the opponent, the vulnerabilities of the opponent whether it’s operating at pace or changing people or otherwise.”

 

[Stryker]

In the NFC with Philly? He would have dominated the NFC. They would have ran Ben out of town with some of those INTs in crucial situations, though. With KC, still had Belicheat making tapes.

But thinking Andy handling the play calling and game planning on offense......hmmmm...Serendipity.


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I lived in Philly for all the years Andy was coach there (minus his first 3). They sure as hell didn't appreciate him going 1-5 in NFCC games and losing a SB. They couldn't wait to run him out of town for a college coach that gutted their team. Believe me, they would have lost their minds if KC with Reid won a SB before Perterson got their first.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I lived in Philly for all the years Andy was coach there (minus his first 3). They sure as hell didn't appreciate him going 1-5 in NFCC games and losing a SB. They couldn't wait to run him out of town for a college coach that gutted their team. Believe me, they would have lost their minds if KC with Reid won a SB before Perterson got their first.

That has to be one of the weirdest decision making process Lurie and Roseman completed in hiring Chip Kelly. I to this day, think one of the two was inebriated when that decision was made.


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