Time to put this BEN **** to rest!

[Steelz]

Beyond many factual errors, your argument doesn't even make any sense.

Players they won a Super Bowl with sucked because they didn't play in theher Super Bowl they lost?

The point is, the argument of "Tomlin doesn't sniff another super bowl" without those players like they were some great player we couldn't make it without, But in actuality most those players were gone within 2 years. Hense another failed draft under Cowher. Simple enough for you?

 

[Wingman]

The point is, the argument of "Tomlin doesn't sniff another super bowl" without those players like they were some great player we couldn't make it without, But in actuality most those players were gone within 2 years. Hense another failed draft under Cowher. Simple enough for you?

Or failed evaluations by Tomlin, or cap casualties, or drug issues and likely gone, or injuries that end careers.

 

[FordFairLane]

I will say Ben was off yesterday but after he hit his throwing arm he seemed to throw everything high. So I will give him the benefit of the doubt on some of those throws after he was banged up. The thing I noticed is the Saints were reading the plays exceptionally well. Which to me means Tomlin and Haley are allowing teams to read our offense pre-snap. I don't know if it is a hand gesture, formation or formation near a yardage marker or on a certain down, word, or what but the Saints knew what was coming and that is what caused this loss.

Ike Taylor was rusty and still only has one hand. For a team that gives up yards underneath and can't intercept the ball we sure do get beat on double moves. I would be ok with us giving up some big plays if we had a lot more int's to offset them a bit. But it seems like we bite on the first move to just give up 10 yards. If we bit on something underneath I want to see some interceptions to go with it so when an offense gets time to do a double move we at least can deal with getting beat deep for a big play. I told my buddy to play stills in FFB because I knew we'd get beat deep at least once.

We literally hold our destiny in our own hands and again if I was the Rooney's I'd let Tomlin and Co. know they have 4 games to prove they are the right coaching staff. They beat Cincy twice and one of the other games and I know we win the division. That simple. If we don't I tell Tomlin and Haley and even DL to hit the road jack.

 

[Vader]

The point is, the argument of "Tomlin doesn't sniff another super bowl" without those players like they were some great player we couldn't make it without, But in actuality most those players were gone within 2 years. Hense another failed draft under Cowher. Simple enough for you?

No the argument was that the Steelers were drafting badly for years BEFORE Tomlin. Which is why your argument makes no sense. Cowher drafted those players who won a SB with him and then won a SB with Tomlin. How in the hell is that a failed draft? You wouldn't take 2 SB rings for that? Bullshit.

 

[RollRedRoll]

Yeah your right and I am sure Mr. Fitz could also throw a game winning last second td to win a super bowl......whatever!!!!!

Remember why we needed the last second heroics... Because the offense didn't do dick **** for the first 28 minutes of the second half... and weren't all that impressive in the first half either. If Harrison doesn't make the most spectacular play in SB history, we lose that game. That was in essence a 14 point, or at the very least, a 10 point swing in that game.

 

[RollRedRoll]

This here is true. Our defense did him no favors yesterday. I think it comes down to turnovers as well, if our defense can't cause any turnovers and our offense are the only one's committing them then we're going to lose every time.

I couldn't disagree more... the defense was holding its own in the first half. If the offense could have put more than 6 points on the board early on when they had ample opportunity to do so, I firmly believe the game would've played out quite differently than it did. Put the Saints in a double-digit hole and suddenly their play calling would have been less run oriented, and most importantly their mindset would have been different. When a team starts a game in a deep hole, their whole demeanor changes from one of confidence and high expectations to one of urgency, which is when you get the mistakes because teams start pressing... forcing balls into coverage
and **** like that. The defense definitely played horrible in the second half, but if the O could've put some damn points on the board, it would've been a different game.

 

[Punxsutawney]

The point is, the argument of "Tomlin doesn't sniff another super bowl" without those players like they were some great player we couldn't make it without, But in actuality most those players were gone within 2 years. Hense another failed draft under Cowher. Simple enough for you?

You implied the few drafts that preceded Tomlin's arrival, which yielded six starters on a Super Bowl WINNING team, were failures because three of them did not start on a Super Bowl LOSING team.

Also, your facts aren't even there. Starks, Colon and McFadden were not gone. Starks and Colon were on injured reserve, and McFadden, not Gay, actually started the ******* game. Starks started at LT for two more years, and Colon is still starting in the league.

 

[diver]

I'm getting tired of hearing about Ben's contract restricting the team in the future. It's bullshit. Who do you want to pay big bucks too? They paid Worilds almost $10 MILLION just for this year. Let's say Ben agrees to a lifetime contract worth $5 million a year. Peanuts right? Ok what do you do with the money? There are no great FAs anymore because teams sign their own players most of the time. So that means you want to sign Adams, Gilbert (just signed), Allen (just signed), Beachum, Foster, Ike, Gay??? Who?

Fact is this team runs by the draft. They have sucked at drafting for 8 years now so there is no one to sign except marginal players. Ben's contract doesn't hurt the Steelers AT ALL. Seriously, who in the hell do you want to spend all the money on?

This is true. I still wouldn't pay him 20-25 million, though. I just don't think he is worth it. I guess I shouldn't give a ****, it ain't my money.

 

[Vader]

This is true. I still wouldn't pay him 20-25 million, though. I just don't think he is worth it. I guess I shouldn't give a ****, it ain't my money.

That's fine if you don't want to pay him. But understand that won't change the way the Steelers do business. They will dip into FA and get some good not great players to fill holes before the draft and then rely on the draft for their future stars. That's how they work.

 

[Litos]

Ben's a keeper, you can still put a good team around thaat big contract if you draft well, and I don't mean great, just constantly good would be enough: get a couple of starters and a blue chip out of every draft and you'd have a Solid team with good contracts to compete

 

[warriors42]

How many balls did you see yesterday that the receiver got a hand on or both for that matter. When I played receiver many years ago, we were taught that if you got a hand on it you should come down with it. these receivers are making millions just like Ben, he shouldn't have to be perfect on every goddamn throw. Heath tripped over his on feet on a sure TD yesterday for Christ sake. yes Ben was off but these other guys should be able to make some catches on iffy passes. other than AB how many oh my god catches have any of our other receivers made? Wheaton has had more balls bounce off his hands than SDS and Lunar combined. I love Bryant but he should have had a td yesterday himself.

Every teams defense seems to know our playbook better than us, is that Bens fault? the Oline is getting better at times but it still sucks most of the time, is that Bens fault? Yes Ben had an off day but we see other QB's have off days and their receivers or their defense carries them. Not one QB is perfect every game. Ben needs to average 324 yards a game to hit 5000 yards, he is on pace for 34 td's and 11 int's, and has a 101.7 QB rating. Yep Ben I see it now Ben is the problem, **** waiting to trade him bench his *** now. I'm sure Gradkowski and deliver us from the evil known as Ben Roethlisberger.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Here's the thing:

Do any of you in the "let Ben walk and go to the Cardinals in FA" crowd have any idea what you're advocating? Despite Roethlisberger's inconsistencies, where would the Steeler be right now without him?

If you want to move on from him, fine, but it makes absolutely no sense to move on from him without telling Tomlin and Colbert to take a hike as well.

Due to the work of Tombert, the Steelers are lucky to be a four win team without Roethlisberger. That's just a fact.

If you are committed to totally reconstructing the franchise, which is what moving on from Roethlisberger would imply, there's no need to keep the current coach and GM, from my perspective

 

[Drink IRON City]

Here's the thing:

Do any of you in the "let Ben walk and go to the Cardinals in FA" crowd have any idea what you're advocating? Despite Roethlisberger's inconsistencies, where would the Steeler be right now without him?

If you want to move on from him, fine, but it makes absolutely no sense to move on from him without telling Tomlin and Colbert to take a hike as well.

Due to the work of Tombert, the Steelers are lucky to be a four win team without Roethlisberger. That's just a fact.

If you are committed to totally reconstructing the franchise, which is what moving on from Roethlisberger would imply, there's no need to keep the current coach and GM, from my perspective

From my perspective, the COACH & GENERAL MANAGER, need to go right now. Right now in the middle of the season. Sooner the better, move up interm coach and general manager. Can't be any worse than what is happening right now. Haley / Muncheck / Dick L. could all coach out the rest of this season. GM could be one of many pencil pushers (except Kahn) in front office, for rest of season. Drastic.................................. YES, but wouldn't hurt are chances any.



Salute the nation

 

[steelermania]

Are we really using Colon, Starks, and Kemo as examples of good draft picks? Their failure to develop is a big reason why we've had to spend a ton of picks on the o-line lately, instead of on defense. If two of them would have become solid starters, we wouldn't have had to draft Adams, and Gilbert. It's a trickle down effect. Everyone on this board was screaming about how bad those three were, and how we needed to draft some linemen to replace them.

 

[stuntmanmike]

I don't mind Ben but he isn't great, he can't carry the team and he should take a huge pay cut so the team can be rebuilt. He should not be pulling down the money he is pulling down putting us in cap hell every year. The way he relies on brown and the numbers brown puts up we won't be able to afford him the next contract. We need balance.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

Remember why we needed the last second heroics... Because the offense didn't do dick **** for the first 28 minutes of the second half... and weren't all that impressive in the first half either. If Harrison doesn't make the most spectacular play in SB history, we lose that game. That was in essence a 14 point, or at the very least, a 10 point swing in that game.

I am not going to disagree with any of that but that wasn't my point, the other poster pointed out how Fitz threw for 6 td's and like it was no big deal. I am thinking Ben has more then just a 6 td game, oh wait he had back to back 6 td games....never done before, 2 sb rings, 15-1 record and a rookie.....just about every steeler passing reacord and let's not forget rescue us from qb hell since Bradshaw retired. Yeah BB should take some blame when he plays bad thats fine I am all for that but for people to think a good qb grows on trees is crazy.He sucked yep thats true but get over it fix the defense and win some more super bowls......

 

[Wingman]

Are we really using Colon, Starks, and Kemo as examples of good draft picks? Their failure to develop is a big reason why we've had to spend a ton of picks on the o-line lately, instead of on defense. If two of them would have become solid starters, we wouldn't have had to draft Adams, and Gilbert. It's a trickle down effect. Everyone on this board was screaming about how bad those three were, and how we needed to draft some linemen to replace them.

Colon looked pretty good while playing for the jets, as I recall they won that game.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

How many balls did you see yesterday that the receiver got a hand on or both for that matter. When I played receiver many years ago, we were taught that if you got a hand on it you should come down with it. these receivers are making millions just like Ben, he shouldn't have to be perfect on every goddamn throw. Heath tripped over his on feet on a sure TD yesterday for Christ sake. yes Ben was off but these other guys should be able to make some catches on iffy passes. other than AB how many oh my god catches have any of our other receivers made? Wheaton has had more balls bounce off his hands than SDS and Lunar combined. I love Bryant but he should have had a td yesterday himself.

Every teams defense seems to know our playbook better than us, is that Bens fault? the Oline is getting better at times but it still sucks most of the time, is that Bens fault? Yes Ben had an off day but we see other QB's have off days and their receivers or their defense carries them. Not one QB is perfect every game. Ben needs to average 324 yards a game to hit 5000 yards, he is on pace for 34 td's and 11 int's, and has a 101.7 QB rating. Yep Ben I see it now Ben is the problem, **** waiting to trade him bench his *** now. I'm sure Gradkowski and deliver us from the evil known as Ben Roethlisberger.

I agree with this post Warriors42, we must have grown up in the same era cause I was also taught if you can get a hand on it you should have caught it!!!!! The other thing I noticed Sunday was AB is our playmaker and look how long it took to get him into the game plan....4th quater. Yeah he had some catches in the game but in the 4th we feed him the ball and he made plays. Yeah it was in garbage time but my point is they didn't try to feed him early and I think that was a mistake. He is your playmake let him give you a spark, jmo!

 

[Wingman]

I am not going to disagree with any of that but that wasn't my point, the other poster pointed out how Fitz threw for 6 td's and like it was no big deal. I am thinking Ben has more then just a 6 td game, oh wait he had back to back 6 td games....never done before, 2 sb rings, 15-1 record and a rookie.....just about every steeler passing reacord and let's not forget rescue us from qb hell since Bradshaw retired. Yeah BB should take some blame when he plays bad thats fine I am all for that but for people to think a good qb grows on trees is crazy.He sucked yep thats true but get over it fix the defense and win some more super bowls......

I will add this to your comments as well, Ben has led a team that is 8 and 8 the last two years. We still have a ways to go to get to 8 and 8 this year. In the first half of the last game his QB rating was 35. His offense is one of the lowest scoring offenses in the nfl most years. He is very inconsistent tossing up what may have been the best two games of his career this season and also throwing up games that score 10 points or 6 points in a half.

Ben maybe done. One does not last for ever in sports everyone begins the decline at some point. I would suggest looking at his games and deciding did he play a good game or not and then checking the next game and grading them individually. His overall stats may still look good, but they do not always translate into wins, which is the main point in playing. Keeping a player too long will also hinder developing a new one. At this point Ben may not have much in trade value due to his issues with consistency. We maybe at the point of being unable to get anything of value for him and unable to win enough games with him.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The BEATING Ben Rothlesburgher has taken through out his career, is catching up with him. How many sacks has he taken???? How many motorcycle accidents? How many little but many, foot / hand / thumb / shoulder / neck / nose / etc. has he had???? He may be slowing / wearing down and may have a few years left. How many of those years will be high production, MEANING more than 8 wins a year. I'm NOT saying get rid of him as HOFers don't grow on trees. I am saying be prepared for his decline.




Salute the nation

 

[Steelerfan]

The BEATING Ben Rothlesburgher has taken through out his career, is catching up with him. How many sacks has he taken???? How many motorcycle accidents? How many little but many, foot / hand / thumb / shoulder / neck / nose / etc. has he had???? He may be slowing / wearing down and may have a few years left. How many of those years will be high production, MEANING more than 8 wins a year. I'm NOT saying get rid of him as HOFers don't grow on trees. I am saying be prepared for his decline.



Salute the nation

You forgot the appendectomys. How many more appendectomys can he have?

 

[steelville]

Q-Backs all have ups and downs and bad games. I remember back in the day Bradshaw had many a horrid day. The Steelers used to win back then because the defense was so strong and many times won games by scoring points. Same thing happened under Cowher, really bad Qbacks but a great defense. The big difference now is the defense is not really good. No intimidation, a secondary composed of retirees and recycles, a depleted L-back corps where a retiree is the best so far, and on the D-line, Kiesel and Heyward as the only real bright spots - and Kiesel may have played his last snap. Look at the 2008 and 2009 drafts for the real answer to today's woes - and that does point to Colbert, Tomlin and the scouting staff. Personally, I can't fault Ben too much.

 

[GMC]

Well to start with we have 3 guy making way to much money while offering very little for the value. In 2015 Troy will make 8.250 mil, Allen 6.891 mil and Heath 5.666 mil, now I am not bad mouthing Troy and Heath they were great players but they are now past their prime with big contracts. So while you want to point out Ben's contract at least you are getting something with him look at what we are getting with these 3 guys, and the list is longer.....
Gilbert 6.9
Mitchell 4.9
Heyward 6.9
McClendon 2.8
Thomas 2.5

I think the guy giving out these contracts should have a thread started about thim.......jmo!!!!

I agree with most, except Heath and Heyward and you missed the 10 million dollar waste that is Worlids. If anything Heath's underpaid. He's still incredibly reliable as a receiver and if you think the tackles suck now, take his blocking help away.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

I will add this to your comments as well, Ben has led a team that is 8 and 8 the last two years. We still have a ways to go to get to 8 and 8 this year. In the first half of the last game his QB rating was 35. His offense is one of the lowest scoring offenses in the nfl most years. He is very inconsistent tossing up what may have been the best two games of his career this season and also throwing up games that score 10 points or 6 points in a half.

Ben maybe done. One does not last for ever in sports everyone begins the decline at some point. I would suggest looking at his games and deciding did he play a good game or not and then checking the next game and grading them individually. His overall stats may still look good, but they do not always translate into wins, which is the main point in playing. Keeping a player too long will also hinder developing a new one. At this point Ben may not have much in trade value due to his issues with consistency. We maybe at the point of being unable to get anything of value for him and unable to win enough games with him.

Here is the thing Ben has always had trouble throwing the long pass, there have been may conversations on here how Wallace and Washington had to wait for the ball. Also no matter who our OC has been we struggle in the red zone with Ben also as far and I can remember he has always thrown a high ball. The thing has been the oline has sucked for many years and you never heard Ben complain once. He takes a beating and he extends plays not many other QB's would last a season with our oline. I know the line has been better and I am not dumping on the oline but I also don't think Ben is done. This offense has lots of talent and with each passing year Ben is getting hit less....still more then he should but less. I think Ben has a good 4-5 more years left but thats just my opinion. However the one thing threw the years that has changed is our defense and as long as our defense plays the way it has the last 1 1/2 I don't care who our qb is we will have problems. Now does this mean fixing our defense will fix Ben heck no, as I sit here and stick up for him I also admit he has to step his game up as well, but I do not believe he is done.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

I will add this to your comments as well, Ben has led a team that is 8 and 8 the last two years. We still have a ways to go to get to 8 and 8 this year. In the first half of the last game his QB rating was 35. His offense is one of the lowest scoring offenses in the nfl most years. He is very inconsistent tossing up what may have been the best two games of his career this season and also throwing up games that score 10 points or 6 points in a half.

Ben maybe done. One does not last for ever in sports everyone begins the decline at some point. I would suggest looking at his games and deciding did he play a good game or not and then checking the next game and grading them individually. His overall stats may still look good, but they do not always translate into wins, which is the main point in playing. Keeping a player too long will also hinder developing a new one. At this point Ben may not have much in trade value due to his issues with consistency. We maybe at the point of being unable to get anything of value for him and unable to win enough games with him.

I agree with most, except Heath and Heyward and you missed the 10 million dollar waste that is Worlids. If anything Heath's underpaid. He's still incredibly reliable as a receiver and if you think the tackles suck now, take his blocking help away.

No I did not this is 2015 salary numbers Mr. Worthless will be off our books then. I love Heath but at 5.666 he is not over paid that is why we are in salary cap problem every year. Heath is a very valuable blocker and mr clutch but he is getting near the end, I agree with what your saying about if we change ot's. I think of the names I mention the two that I woiuld not like to se go are Miller and Heyward but we have to do something about these big numbers. Take Allen for examaple we so over paid for him it is not funny, it use to be the other way around we use to sign guys to good contract before they went to fa and lock them up now we just let them go or over pay.