Former Steeler Ryan Harris on Tomlin and the culture

[SojournerSteel]

Anyone who thinks we were the favorites on defense was dumb. I know they had Bortles, but they also had Leonard fornette on offense.

I thought we would beat Jax, too. I didn't count on our offense giving them 10+ points either.

You can admit jax had the edge on us on defense. You will feel better.

What did Bortles and Fournette put up the week before at home vs Buffalo? 10 points? Tomlin's defense made them look like the '89 49ers. Just a total organizational failure that certainly carried over into last season's downward slide. Tomlin looked like he was watching a horror movie by the 4th quarter.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

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[Coryea]

Anyone who thinks we were the favorites on defense was dumb. I know they had Bortles, but they also had Leonard fornette on offense.

I thought we would beat Jax, too. I didn't count on our offense giving them 10+ points either.

You can admit jax had the edge on us on defense. You will feel better.

The offense didn't give them 10+points.

 

[ark steel]

The offense didn't give them 10+points.

They didn't?

 

[ark steel]

What did Bortles and Fournette put up the week before at home vs Buffalo? 10 points? Tomlin's defense made them look like the '89 49ers. Just a total organizational failure that certainly carried over into last season's downward slide. Tomlin looked like he was watching a horror movie by the 4th quarter.

In the regular season Ben threw 2 pick 6's versus the same D and 3 other interceptions, I think.

Bortles had a better game against the *'s the next week and they only lost by 4 or 5 points, I think. What would have been the result if the *'s had given them 10 points?

 

[Vader]

Anyone who thinks we were the favorites on defense was dumb. I know they had Bortles, but they also had Leonard fornette on offense.

I thought we would beat Jax, too. I didn't count on our offense giving them 10+ points either.

You can admit jax had the edge on us on defense. You will feel better.

See this is why it's impossible to talk to some of you people. I NEVER said to break down the team into sections so you could decide what part of the group was the favorite. You know you can't defend your position without outright mis-stating what I said. I've repeated it several times and you still do it. I'm done. If you can't understand the difference between a team being the favorite at home and "Oh the Jax defense is the favorite" then you shouldn't be discussing football.

 

[ark steel]

See this is why it's impossible to talk to some of you people. I NEVER said to break down the team into sections so you could decide what part of the group was the favorite. You know you can't defend your position without outright mis-stating what I said. I've repeated it several times and you still do it. I'm done. If you can't understand the difference between a team being the favorite at home and "Oh the Jax defense is the favorite" then you shouldn't be discussing football.

it is impossible to talk to people because you harp on nonsense and you don't like people disagreeing with you. you never said to break down the team into sections, but jesus Christ is it dumb not to. Regardless of the amount of talent you have on offense, let's say you have unanimous all-pros at every position, it has ZERO effect on how talented your D is. you want people to argue on your ridiculous premise and, when they point out how ridiculous it is you get all huffy,

You have to compare the talent on our O versus their D. Their D was very good that year. So was our O. Considering the # of turnovers in the first game against them, that should be fairly obvious, unless you are choosing to ignore it, which you, apparently, do.

Their O was less talented than our O, which is completely irrelevant. Our D was not good. Fournette is good. Our D kept Bortles more in check than the all knowing *'s.

Our ST? Outside of Bos that year were not good. That is one piece where you have the ST going against ST. I'm just guessing the Jags were better at that. I don't recall either making a difference in either game vs them that year, but it may have.

 

[Coryea]

They didn't?

No, just because they turn the ball over doesn't mean the defense has to allow them to score at TD. The offense gave up 10, the fumble return, and if the defense could stop that potent offense they could've held to a FG. The defense still allowed them to score 35 points at home, they averaged 4.7 yards per carry. Our offense had 545 yards, Ben threw for 5 TD's and a 110 rating, but yet you blame the offense.

 

[ark steel]

If you can't understand the difference between a team being the favorite at home and "Oh the Jax defense is the favorite" then you shouldn't be discussing football.

Well, I (and cope) responded to your "who has the most talent" question, not to which team was the favorite, so, I have no idea why you would ***** a bout that.

 

[ark steel]

No, just because they turn the ball over doesn't mean the defense has to allow them to score at TD. The offense gave up 10, the fumble return, and if the defense could stop that potent offense they could've held to a FG. The defense still allowed them to score 35 points at home, they averaged 4.7 yards per carry. Our offense had 545 yards, Ben threw for 5 TD's and a 110 rating, but yet you blame the offense.

I said 10+ giving the benefit of the doubt that the D held to a FG. A turnover in that area is a guaranteed FG. I didn't look it up, but there is some probability of a TD from that spot. There is some probability that Jax turns it back over. The most likely things is a FG, i'd guess with TD being less and a TO being even less than that. The expected value there is somewhere between 10 and 14.

How many teams win in the PO's when they give up 10 points on TO's? That'd be an interesting question.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I DID NOT HAVE NOT BLAMED THE LOSS ON THE OFFENSE. I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IT WAS A TOP DOWN LOSS, INCLUDING THE COACHING, DEFENSIVE PLAYERS AND THE OFFENSIVE PLAYERS.

You, simply, cannot discount those two turnovers as if they had no influence on the game,.

 

[Coryea]

I said 10+ giving the benefit of the doubt that the D held to a FG. A turnover in that area is a guaranteed FG. I didn't look it up, but there is some probability of a TD from that spot. There is some probability that Jax turns it back over. The most likely things is a FG, i'd guess with TD being less and a TO being even less than that. The expected value there is somewhere between 10 and 14.

How many teams win in the PO's when they give up 10 points on TO's? That'd be an interesting question.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I DID NOT HAVE NOT BLAMED THE LOSS ON THE OFFENSE. I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IT WAS A TOP DOWN LOSS, INCLUDING THE COACHING, DEFENSIVE PLAYERS AND THE OFFENSIVE PLAYERS.

You, simply, cannot discount those two turnovers as if they had no influence on the game,.

How many teams lose when they score 42 points, have 569 yards offense and their QB throws for 5 TD's and 465 yards?

It's not a top down loss. If before the game, you polled everyone and told them, Ben is going to throw a pick and lost a fumble, but throw for 5 TD's and 469 yards, every single fan would've taken that. No way that defense should've given up 35 points to them, hell they couldn't even score the week before.

 

[ark steel]

How many teams lose when they score 42 points, have 569 yards offense and their QB throws for 5 TD's and 465 yards?

It's not a top down loss. If before the game, you polled everyone and told them, Ben is going to throw a pick and lost a fumble, but throw for 5 TD's and 469 yards, every single fan would've taken that. No way that defense should've given up 35 points to them, hell they couldn't even score the week before.

Well, let's add to the pre-game supposition that the D will "hold" jax to 35 points. you'd get 100% expecting us to win.

I mean, you can THINK the turnovers had no influence on the game, it is, simply, not true. Without either of them, we either tie and go into OT or win the game,

 

[Vader]

it is impossible to talk to people because you harp on nonsense and you don't like people disagreeing with you. you never said to break down the team into sections, but jesus Christ is it dumb not to. Regardless of the amount of talent you have on offense, let's say you have unanimous all-pros at every position, it has ZERO effect on how talented your D is. you want people to argue on your ridiculous premise and, when they point out how ridiculous it is you get all huffy,

You have to compare the talent on our O versus their D. Their D was very good that year. So was our O. Considering the # of turnovers in the first game against them, that should be fairly obvious, unless you are choosing to ignore it, which you, apparently, do.

Their O was less talented than our O, which is completely irrelevant. Our D was not good. Fournette is good. Our D kept Bortles more in check than the all knowing *'s.

Our ST? Outside of Bos that year were not good. That is one piece where you have the ST going against ST. I'm just guessing the Jags were better at that. I don't recall either making a difference in either game vs them that year, but it may have.

No you're doing the same **** you always do. Just answer one question. Before the game who did you say would win? You know the Steelers were a better team and you picked them to win. But now AFTER the fact you want to break down the team into sections (which you've NEVER done before) to discuss who was favored in the game. It's ******* stupid and you know better.

 

[Coryea]

Well, let's add to the pre-game supposition that the D will "hold" jax to 35 points. you'd get 100% expecting us to win.

I mean, you can THINK the turnovers had no influence on the game, it is, simply, not true. Without either of them, we either tie and go into OT or win the game,

If the D just plays average we win that game, hell slightly below average we we win that game. That offense ran all over us earlier in the season, you'd think in all his wisdom Tomlin would have an idea that they might try to run the ball on us again, nah, we'll just play Hargrave are only true NT 38% of the snaps, brilliant.

 

[Vader]

And in a 3 second search we have this:

Seems like, if we avoid 5 int s, two for pick 6's, we can win.

So looks like before the game Ark believes the Steelers can win if they don't throw 5 picks and 2 for picks 6s. So I'm guessing you thought the Steelers were the better team.

 

[Superman]

I'll say it.

On paper, we were the better team. Who'd have NOT accepted this stat line in the playoffs if they were told Bortles would only throw for 214 yards and Fournette would only get 109 yards, while no Jaguar receiver would get catch more than 3 receptions and none would have more than 57 yards? With OUR defense? **** YES I'm taking that.

Especially if you were told AB would get 2 TDs, 130+ yards and Bell would amass 155 total yards with a TD. I'm taking that all day.

But, fact is, the Jags were the better team that day.

 

[ark steel]

No you're doing the same **** you always do. Just answer one question. Before the game who did you say would win? You know the Steelers were a better team and you picked them to win. But now AFTER the fact you want to break down the team into sections (which you've NEVER done before) to discuss who was favored in the game. It's ******* stupid and you know better.

I don't always do anything. you asked who had the more talent. Cope and I both had the same answer. your panties get all in a bunch.

 

[ark steel]

If the D just plays average we win that game, hell slightly below average we we win that game. That offense ran all over us earlier in the season, you'd think in all his wisdom Tomlin would have an idea that they might try to run the ball on us again, nah, we'll just play Hargrave are only true NT 38% of the snaps, brilliant.

Their O did not run all over us earlier in the season. Leonard had one run for 90 yards late in the game (2 min left). Before that Fornette had run 27 times for 90 yards. I've been told here that this is a pathetic average. Bortles had 95 yards passing.

Not to mention that Shazier had 8 tackles and an INT in the first game and 0 in the PO game. I'd guess you might say Spence was less talented than Shazier.

 

[Vader]

I don't always do anything. you asked who had the more talent. Cope and I both had the same answer. your panties get all in a bunch.

You had the same "I can't say the truth so I'll murk up the waters" answer. Which is why I posted what you said before the game. Now you want to get off into the "I can't defend what I said, now I have to start being a dick". Pull you tampon out and just admit it.

 

[ark steel]

And in a 3 second search we have this:



So looks like before the game Ark believes the Steelers can win if they don't throw 5 picks and 2 for picks 6s. So I'm guessing you thought the Steelers were the better team.

shouldn't have taken you three seconds. I said IN THIS THREAD, I thought we'd beat Jax.

anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension would know the reference to 5 ints and 2 pick 6's was a joke and that I was commenting on that the prior game was an abnormal game for Ben. We still ended up giving them 10-14. Does a fumble recovery for a TD count less than a pick 6?

I thought you were done?

 

[ark steel]

You had the same "I can't say the truth so I'll murk up the waters" answer. Which is why I posted what you said before the game. Now you want to get off into the "I can't defend what I said, now I have to start being a dick". Pull you tampon out and just admit it.

must be a heavy flow day for you. Throw out the "I'm done" and come back to ***** some more.

how many times do you want me to type, I thought we would win before you admit I've already said it. I also didn't expect us to give up 10-14 points on offense. We did and lost by 3.

you asked "who had more talent". Cope and I gave you an answer. Wasn't the one you want so you ***** and moan.

 

[Coryea]

Their O did not run all over us earlier in the season. Leonard had one run for 90 yards late in the game (2 min left). Before that Fornette had run 27 times for 90 yards. I've been told here that this is a pathetic average. Bortles had 95 yards passing.

Not to mention that Shazier had 8 tackles and an INT in the first game and 0 in the PO game. I'd guess you might say Spence was less talented than Shazier.

You're forgetting Ivory averaged 5ypc carry in that game. You can't just take that play away, it happened, but lets take it away, they still ran for 127 yards without that run.
Still the point is the same, everyone knew they were going to come in and run the ball, yet we only use our true NT on 38% of the downs, meaning we played alot of 2 DLinemen of course. Idiotic vs a running team.

 

[Vader]

must be a heavy flow day for you. Throw out the "I'm done" and come back to ***** some more.

how many times do you want me to type, I thought we would win before you admit I've already said it. I also didn't expect us to give up 10-14 points on offense. We did and lost by 3.

you asked "who had more talent". Cope and I gave you an answer. Wasn't the one you want so you ***** and moan.

Neither of you answer it. You focused on just their defense when I was talking about the "team" and you know it. I know it's a difficult thing to focus on the team when it doesn't make your point. I don't blame you for trying to deviate (that means to stray) from the point. You both thought the Steelers would win. You thought that because you knew the Steelers had more talent. Maybe some Pamprin and some thicker pads could help you?

 

[ark steel]

Neither of you answer it. You focused on just their defense when I was talking about the "team" and you know it. I know it's a difficult thing to focus on the team when it doesn't make your point. I don't blame you for trying to deviate (that means to stray) from the point. You both thought the Steelers would win. You thought that because you knew the Steelers had more talent. Maybe some Pamprin and some thicker pads could help you?

I answered as a team because the team is 3 pieces. The discrepancy on the D has an effect on the overall team talent. Regardless of how much more talented our offense was, our offense was going against their talented Defense not their lack of offense. Our D was about as inept as their normal offense. We had some talent on D, but we still lost our 1st and 2nd string ILB in one game. That left a big hole in the middle and VW play was worse from that point on. Everyone seemed to play worse, at times. ST would, probably be a wash with an edge to jax,

That really leaves their D to compare to our O.

 

[ark steel]

You're forgetting Ivory averaged 5ypc carry in that game. You can't just take that play away, it happened, but lets take it away, they still ran for 127 yards without that run.
Still the point is the same, everyone knew they were going to come in and run the ball, yet we only use our true NT on 38% of the downs, meaning we played alot of 2 DLinemen of course. Idiotic vs a running team.

I didn't forget it, it was only 8 runs. Hard to consider such a small sample size as too important. They may have been at the time they came, but I don't remember the specifics.

We can argue about it if you want, but I think "ran all over us" is an overstatement. one thing I didn't consider is about where our turnovers happened. They may have only needed a few yards to score on some of them and the yards kind of understated,