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Houston we have a problem, buy or sell?

slashsteel

slashsteel

Thank you for everything Franco, R I P.
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I think it is a bad decision on allowing such young players to be in that kind of mix / contact sport. Most bodies aren't developed all the way at those ages.


Yes to a degree, it will take a few players away from the NFL, but those players won't be the high caliber / high money maker type players.............................. 1/2 BUY





Salute the nation
 
but those players won't be the high caliber / high money maker type players.

are you sure?
 
slashsteel said:
but those players won't be the high caliber / high money maker type players.

are you sure?
Click to expand...



Nothing is a sure thing slash but the XFL won't be able to compete with the salaries of the NFL. Yes, some players will jump ship for the immediate payday but the BIG payday guys will wait it out or sign with XFL for 1-2 years then jump. That's why my 1/2 buy is there. If the two identities were on level pay fields then yes it would MAKE BIG impact so much as NFL would follow suit.



Salute the nation
 
Only way XFL can succeed is take the players right from high school. It wouldn't be much different than playing college football, but you get paid.
Wouldn't hurt the NFL as much as college football. Any good players from XFL would want to upgrade to NFL eventually.
 
slashsteel said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...some-players-will-leave-the-ncaa-for-the-xfl/

This will water down the talent in the NFL.

Buy or sell ?
Click to expand...

They’ll also consider kids straight out of high school which seems insane.

Should be interesting to see if they throw out big bucks to steal college stars. The USFL did that and failed. I don’t think that taking the money and playing for an XFL team will be better for the development of a player than playing for a major D1 program.
 
slashsteel said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...some-players-will-leave-the-ncaa-for-the-xfl/



This will water down the talent in the NFL.

Buy or sell ?
Click to expand...

This is actually a FANTASTIC idea.
It will solve SO many problems simultaneously.

1) For those who *****, moan, and complain that the NCAA doesn't "pay" it's student athletes, and exploits them for millions, and forbids them from reaping the benefits of helping to bring in money to the university - these players can now go from High School to a paying job and forego college altogether.
2) For those who *****, moan, and complain that these student athletes have to go to school AND train to be a player and have no down time, can now have a full time job at football and not have to worry about "wasting time" attending class or declaring a BS major or which you have no intention of earning a degree in.
3) Rather than being a farm system for the NFL, which McMahon and Luck have already said they have no interest in doing, they would be competition for the NCAA. NOT to college football fans, but to talented high school players who want to go to the NFL, but want to focus on developing their football talent and acumen full time and not "waste time" going to class. IF the NFL maintains its "player must be 3 years removed from high school to be eligible for the draft" rule, than the NFL could feasibly draft players from the NCAA and the XFL. It would start mirroring the NHL/NBA where they have different leagues/organizations to draft from.
4) For Drink IRON City what is the difference between 18 - 20 year olds in the NCAA vs 18 - 20 year olds in the XFL? Both are playing the same physical contact sport that carries with it the same risk/reward? Especially saying in the same breath that the level of competition is superior in the NCAA? For a potential injury standpoint, wouldn't than be safer to play in the XFL to reduce your risk to injury since the level of play is inferior?
I think the risk in football is the same regardless of which league. I've seen the same types of injuries occur from PEE WEE league to the NFL. In each league, you're playing with a group of participants who play in the realm of the same skill level. Obviously some are more athletically gifted than others, but it would not be like 8 year olds going against pros.

I think it would be in the best interest of EVERYONE if XFL opens it up to graduated high school players. WIN WIN WINs all around.
 
Troglodyte said:
They’ll also consider kids straight out of high school which seems insane.

Should be interesting to see if they throw out big bucks to steal college stars. The USFL did that and failed. I don’t think that taking the money and playing for an XFL team will be better for the development of a player than playing for a major D1 program.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why this idea seems INSANE?
So it's INSANE for the NCAA to consider kids straight out of high school, but not another league playing the same sport?
Please elaborate.
 
Troglodyte said:
They’ll also consider kids straight out of high school which seems insane.

Should be interesting to see if they throw out big bucks to steal college stars. The USFL did that and failed. I don’t think that taking the money and playing for an XFL team will be better for the development of a player than playing for a major D1 program.
Click to expand...



ONLY difference is, unlike the NCAA, the player will actually get cash in their pocket for playing.




Salute the nation
 
fedderone said:
This is actually a FANTASTIC idea.
It will solve SO many problems simultaneously.

1) For those who *****, moan, and complain that the NCAA doesn't "pay" it's student athletes, and exploits them for millions, and forbids them from reaping the benefits of helping to bring in money to the university - these players can now go from High School to a paying job and forego college altogether.
2) For those who *****, moan, and complain that these student athletes have to go to school AND train to be a player and have no down time, can now have a full time job at football and not have to worry about "wasting time" attending class or declaring a BS major or which you have no intention of earning a degree in.
3) Rather than being a farm system for the NFL, which McMahon and Luck have already said they have no interest in doing, they would be competition for the NCAA. NOT to college football fans, but to talented high school players who want to go to the NFL, but want to focus on developing their football talent and acumen full time and not "waste time" going to class. IF the NFL maintains its "player must be 3 years removed from high school to be eligible for the draft" rule, than the NFL could feasibly draft players from the NCAA and the XFL. It would start mirroring the NHL/NBA where they have different leagues/organizations to draft from.
4) For Drink IRON City what is the difference between 18 - 20 year olds in the NCAA vs 18 - 20 year olds in the XFL? Both are playing the same physical contact sport that carries with it the same risk/reward? Especially saying in the same breath that the level of competition is superior in the NCAA? For a potential injury standpoint, wouldn't than be safer to play in the XFL to reduce your risk to injury since the level of play is inferior?
I think the risk in football is the same regardless of which league. I've seen the same types of injuries occur from PEE WEE league to the NFL. In each league, you're playing with a group of participants who play in the realm of the same skill level. Obviously some are more athletically gifted than others, but it would not be like 8 year olds going against pros.

I think it would be in the best interest of EVERYONE if XFL opens it up to graduated high school players. WIN WIN WINs all around.
Click to expand...




I was thinking more of along the lines of taking that freshman and inserting him into the NFL. When you look at the XFL being able to use kids right out of high school VS the NFL three years out of high school, there is quite a body development curve there. I should have explained a little better my thought process. federrone, you do realize that the XFL isn't limited to college age. They will also have full grown adult MALES on the field of play. A 1st year out of high school mixed in with the full grown adults definitely have a body development difference. Myself, I have no berring on what they finally do but I think the XFL says they will use less than 3 year removed from high school. So in a lot of states, 8th grade is final requirement and essentially (theoretically) a equal to high school freshman could participate....................... I agree on the minimum age but also realize it isn't the NCAA you're playing against.



Salute the nation
 
Last edited:
fedderone said:
I don't understand why this idea seems INSANE?
So it's INSANE for the NCAA to consider kids straight out of high school, but not another league playing the same sport?
Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I thought it was obvious.

Football is a very physical sport.
A male physique changes considerably in the three years between 18-21.
 
Drink IRON City said:
I was thinking more of along the lines of taking that freshman and inserting him into the NFL. When you look at the XFL being able to use kids right out of high school VS the NFL three years out of high school, there is quite a body development curve there. I should have explained a little better my thought process. federrone, you do realize that the XFL isn't limited to college age. They will also have full grown adult MALES on the field of play. A 1st year out of high school mixed in with the full grown adults definitely have a body development difference. Myself, I have no berring on what they finally do but I think the XFL says they will use less than 3 year removed from high school. So in a lot of states, 8th grade is final requirement and essentially (theoretically) a equal to high school freshman could participate....................... I agree on the minimum age but also realize it isn't the NCAA you're playing against.



Salute the nation
Click to expand...

I don't think the NFL is changing their requirement of "three years removed from high school"anytime soon ( unless that's brought up at the next CBA ).

These full grown adult males are obviously be less athletically gifted than their NFL counterparts at the same age.
So is that more or less a risk to 18-19 year olds coming into the league?
Isn't that the same thing as a 20 or 21 year old coming from NCAA to NFL and going up against a 27 year old in his prime?
Take JuJu for example. He was 20 years old his rookie season. He played against "grown men" and lived to tell about it.
Like Aaliyah used to croon, "Age ain't nothin' but a number".
In this case it's going to be body size and athletic talent. Not so much your birth year.
 
Then don't play if you're worried about injury.

18 years old is considered an adult, if they want to play that's on them. No one seems to give a **** that you can enlist in the military at 18 and be getting shots fired at you in battle not long after that, but yeah lets worry about these ADULT athletes that get a free ride through college, or these ADULT highschool grads that may be allowed to play football for money.

Sorry I have no sympathy for them, they aren't forced to play, my daughter is a full time college student that is paying her own way, with grants, loans, jobs however she can make it work, because we've both lost jobs in the past and wiped us out, but she's still figuring out how to do it.
 
Last edited:
Troglodyte said:
Seriously? I thought it was obvious.

Football is a very physical sport.
A male physique changes considerably in the three years between 18-21.
Click to expand...

It does?
Mine didn't.
I hit 5'10" 180lbs my junior year in high school and stopped growing height wise.
I guess I could have added muscle mass if I needed to, but I was never going to be a pro athlete so there was no need.
SOME males continue to grow height wise until 21 ish. But they are not the norms.
MOST males hit their last growth spurt around 18.
If you're a training athlete, than yeah, I'll concede your body will continue to develop. But at the levels we're speaking, they're typically tailoring their training to garner a specific result ( ie, improve speed, increase muscle mass, lose weight, build endurance, etc. ).
If you're playing at the levels we're speaking, again, it's all relative and within the realm of their respective competitions.
Hockey's JUST as physical as football and there's 18 year olds playing against "grown men" EVERY year, be it in the NHL, AHL, or other farm system league.
 
fedderone said:
It does?
Mine didn't.
I hit 5'10" 180lbs my junior year in high school and stopped growing height wise.
I guess I could have added muscle mass if I needed to, but I was never going to be a pro athlete so there was no need.
SOME males continue to grow height wise until 21 ish. But they are not the norms.
MOST males hit their last growth spurt around 18.
If you're a training athlete, than yeah, I'll concede your body will continue to develop. But at the levels we're speaking, they're typically tailoring their training to garner a specific result ( ie, improve speed, increase muscle mass, lose weight, build endurance, etc. ).
If you're playing at the levels we're speaking, again, it's all relative and within the realm of their respective competitions.
Hockey's JUST as physical as football and there's 18 year olds playing against "grown men" EVERY year, be it in the NHL, AHL, or other farm system league.
Click to expand...

No offense, but you’re clueless here on several levels but I leave it at this: If hockey was just as physical as football, the NFL would have 80 game seasons. There’s a reason they don’t.
 
Stop. If you want to say that a hockey player at any position is not as physical as offensive and defensive lineman, you have a leg to stand on. Maybe even if you had said football players up until when Free Agency went into effect, I may have entertained your argument.
But I’ll put a hockey player at any position up against every other position in football. ALL players make contact in hockey sans goalies. Open ice hits and checks against the boards with players skating 20-30 miles an hour? Cross checks, butt ends, slashes, falling on ice.
Just because professionally paid players whine and complain about preseason games, length of season, playing Monday than Thursday.....don’t kid yourself.
I’m not clueless.
All due respect, you’re simply obtuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
slashsteel said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...some-players-will-leave-the-ncaa-for-the-xfl/



This will water down the talent in the NFL.

Buy or sell ?
Click to expand...
It will only take the stupid ones. Its 32 Billionaires vs. One really cheap piece of **** one. So if you are a kid with NFL talent and you want to get less money earlier, have at it. Might want to take a good look at how Vince has treated his wrestling talent before you believe anything that snake oil salesman tells you.
 
fedderone said:
Stop. If you want to say that a hockey player at any position is not as physical as offensive and defensive lineman, you have a leg to stand on. Maybe even if you had said football players up until when Free Agency went into effect, I may have entertained your argument.
But I’ll put a hockey player at any position up against every other position in football. ALL players make contact in hockey sans goalies. Open ice hits and checks against the boards with players skating 20-30 miles an hour? Cross checks, butt ends, slashes, falling on ice.
Just because professionally paid players whine and complain about preseason games, length of season, playing Monday than Thursday.....don’t kid yourself.
I’m not clueless.
All due respect, you’re simply obtuse.
Click to expand...

Then answer these questions: Why doesn’t the NFL have it’s teams play 80 game seasons? Think of the revenue that would be generated! Why does the NFL have more injuries despite playing 1/5th the amount of games?

Hockey is NOT as physical as football and hockey players, on average, are not as big, strong and fast as football players.
 
Troglodyte said:
Then answer these questions: Why doesn’t the NFL have it’s teams play 80 game seasons? Think of the revenue that would be generated! Why does the NFL have more injuries despite playing 1/5th the amount of games?

Hockey is NOT as physical as football and hockey players, on average, are not as big, strong and fast as football players.
Click to expand...

I would think the “work smarter, not harder” analogy applies here.
The NFL far and away brings in the most revenue. They’re around 14 BILLION/year.
Next in line would be MLB at around 8 billion/year.
So MLB plays ten times more games than NFL and makes 6 billion less.
Both NHL and NBA are WAY down the poll at 82 games / year a piece and both bring in less than 5 billion/year.
NFL won’t add those number of games because they don’t have to. I know they’ve talked about dropping two preseason games and adding two regular season games, but that’s more “transforming” or “transferring” two games.
If my boss comes to me and says, “do you wanna work 80 hours/week and make 50k, or do you want to work 40 hours/week and make 150k?” that’s a no brainer.
NFL found the sweet spot. Their popularity is unparalleled amongst the other sports. None of the other sports have televised combines and none of the other sports’ drafts have the ratings of the NFL Draft. Adding additional games may water down the product. NFL knows this. Once a week for 4-5 months a year? Any good marketing agent will tell you, “leave them wanting more”. NFL marketing has this NAILED in spades.
IF the NFL were only pulling in the revenue that NHL or NBA were, you better believe that game count would go up.

Again, I’m conceding lineman on both sides of football. Most disrespected athletes on the planet. It’s because of their hard work, their physicality, that make the skill players on each side of the ball look the way they do. NOBODY in ANY sport are more physical than them or receives as much punishment.

Does NFL have more injuries?
And the obvious answer would be, if they actually do, is a bigger pool of the players.

Football - 53 man rosters, 32 teams, 1696 players
Baseball - 25 man rosters, 30 teams, 750 players
Hockey - 20 man rosters, 31 teams, 620 players
Basketball - 14 man rosters, 30 teams, 420 players



Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
fedderone said:
I would think the “work smarter, not harder” analogy applies here.
The NFL far and away brings in the most revenue. They’re around 14 BILLION/year.
Next in line would be MLB at around 8 billion/year.
So MLB plays ten times more games than NFL and makes 6 billion less.
Both NHL and NBA are WAY down the poll at 82 games / year a piece and both bring in less than 5 billion/year.
NFL won’t add those number of games because they don’t have to. I know they’ve talked about dropping two preseason games and adding two regular season games, but that’s more “transforming” or “transferring” two games.
If my boss comes to me and says, “do you wanna work 80 hours/week and make 50k, or do you want to work 40 hours/week and make 150k?” that’s a no brainer.
NFL found the sweet spot. Their popularity is unparalleled amongst the other sports. None of the other sports have televised combines and none of the other sports’ drafts have the ratings of the NFL Draft. Adding additional games may water down the product. NFL knows this. Once a week for 4-5 months a year? Any good marketing agent will tell you, “leave them wanting more”. NFL marketing has this NAILED in spades.
IF the NFL were only pulling in the revenue that NHL or NBA were, you better believe that game count would go up.

Again, I’m conceding lineman on both sides of football. Most disrespected athletes on the planet. It’s because of their hard work, their physicality, that make the skill players on each side of the ball look the way they do. NOBODY in ANY sport are more physical than them or receives as much punishment.

Does NFL have more injuries?
And the obvious answer would be, if they actually do, is a bigger pool of the players.

Football - 53 man rosters, 32 teams, 1696 players
Baseball - 25 man rosters, 30 teams, 750 players
Hockey - 20 man rosters, 31 teams, 620 players
Basketball - 14 man rosters, 30 teams, 420 players
Click to expand...

Are you seriously arguing that the reason the NFL doesn’t have 80 game seasons is because “they don’t have to”? And that because it is no more physical than hockey, NFL players could survive 3 or 4 games a week without any more injuries than you see in hockey? Wow! Just, wow!

Anyway, 2.5 times as many NFL players doesn’t make up for the 5 times as many NHL games.
 
Take the hitting out of the equation, skating is alot easier on your body than running/sprinting is. I never got sore muscles from skating, but if you'd play just a pick up game of football, you're going to be sore the next couple days, your muscles work way harder when sprinting than they do skating.
 
People on here complain about the thursday night games because players are not ready. No way they would survive several games a week with a few back to backs.
 
Coryea said:
Take the hitting out of the equation, skating is alot easier on your body than running/sprinting is. I never got sore muscles from skating, but if you'd play just a pick up game of football, you're going to be sore the next couple days, your muscles work way harder when sprinting than they do skating.
Click to expand...

Nevermind that. Collisions are a lot less forceful when neither player’s feet are anchored by cleats in turf.
 
I grew up playing hockey and watched it my whole life. It has the toughest competitors in sports in my opinion. Guys lose their teeth and get back in the game. However, football is more violent. The line players are smashing on every play.
 
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