Interesting fact about the secondary which prompts this question.

[Litos]

I have to give him a 2nd year under his belt as FS before discarding him as a non starter 3rd Safety.
The guy has played all over the field in 3 seasons and had to play next to a rookie, lines need to gel and that only happens with playing time.

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[maowv]

The 2018 defense was pathetic in creating turnovers.

Look at these numbers:

Rod Woodson - 71 career interceptions in 16 seasons = 4.5 interceptions average per year
Mel Blount - 57 career interceptions in 14 seasons = 4.1 interceptions average per year
Donnie Shell - 51 career interceptions in 14 seasons = 3.64 interceptions average per year

Those numbers include their early seasons before they were full-time starters and their late declining seasons.

The entire team had a total of 8 interceptions in 2018. 8 for the whole team. There's the difference in several wins/losses. The inability to create turnovers.

Is it simply because we have bad players now? No, I don't think it is that simple. Steelers defenses of the past were always high pressure attacking defenses. Now we watch our secondary giving 10 yard cushions all the time. The lack of interceptions now has less to do with defensive talent and more to do with our DB playing so far off the receivers.

Think of the best defenses in history and I dare say not one of them played a "bend but don't break" style. 1970's Steelers, '85 Bears, early '90's Eagles under Buddy Ryan, Rats during the Ray Lewis era. Aggressive defenses who pressure cause the QB to make bad decisions and bad mistakes. Passive defenses don't result in those bad throws. Soft coverage doesn't allow the DB to close fast enough to make a play on the ball. Therefore, we stop less drives and we get fewer short field opportunities on offense.

As with most things Steelers Defense related, I trace it back to Tomlin's philosophy on defensive football. It's a bad philosophy.

 

[Superman]

I took the numbers from Pro Football Reference, and using Combined tackles as the leading metric, removed all positions other than FS. Per rank (again, in Combined tackles), and age, they are:
Antoine Bethea (34)
Jessie Bates (21)
Jordan Poyer (27)
Justin Simmons (25)
Harrison Smith (29)
Bradley McDougald (28) **played both fs and ss**
Jeff Heath (27)
Curtis Riley (26)
Kevin Byard (25)
Sean Davis (25)

In INTs from this group, the most was four (4), by Jordan Poyer, Curtis Riley and Kevin Byard.
Sean Davis, as established, had one (1).

Digging further, penalties committed (which can suggest aggressiveness):
Bethea - 4
Bates - 0
Poyer - 1
Simmons - 4
Smith - 3
McDougald - 1
Heath -1
Riley - 1
Byard - 1
Davis - 2 (and we know from watching Steelers games that one was complete bullshit)

Review this all for yourself:
http://pfref.com/tiny/8oJMq

Stat-wise, there is not much difference at all between these guys. Bethea was on a **** defense, as Arizona's defense ranked in the lower teens in yards per game. Byard was on the 8th best defense in yards per game, with stats similar to Davis.

Stat-wise, Davis doesn't warrant the waste of bandwidth that Cooch so loves to waste.

btw - Cooch - Jalen Ramsey had just two more interceptions than Davis, 15 less total tackles with just 6 more passes defensed while playing one more game. You know, since you like to extrapolate data and compare between players that means nothing.

 

[Coach]

Coach this is a maybe not factual. And I base that off the team constantly moving him around. So he has had one year as a FS.

I am not going to beat down any doors to say he will improve, but I think it is a little too early at his current position to say he won't.

The counterpoint is I have heard the Steelers don't differentiate much between free safety and strong safety. If Davis were a rookie or veteran free agent player learning the defense, your point would have more validity to it.


Davis might be marginally better next year, in terms of familiarity; I'll grant you that, but his angles to the ball, tackling, and playmaking skills won't. Three years in, he is what he is.


Next, to ILB and CB, FS is the biggest weakness on the defense. With our pass rush, playing DB should be easier. The Steelers missed badly on Morgan Burnett.

 

[Coach]

btw - Cooch - Jalen Ramsey had just two more interceptions than Davis, 15 less total tackles with just 6 more passes defensed while playing one more game. You know, since you like to extrapolate data and compare between players that means nothing.

Superman needs some help. Ramsey had 3 interceptions, and 13 PD's. Many teams avoided throwing his way. Wanna compare that to Davis? Also let's compare the tackles missed.

I do agree with you, Davis had more than 2 flags last season.

 

[slashsteel]

I wouldn't compare players that play two different positions. Bad enough comparing players that play the same position but two different schemes. Also rating CB s is a tricky monster. A high tally of pass defenses can be that the corner gets picked on a lot. Or one corner gets the oppositions best WR and the other does not. How many 4th quarter yards and TDs given up? That would be a stat I could be more on board with.

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[ark steel]

I wouldn't compare players that play two different positions.

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you would if you think your audience isn't smart enough to see the difference or you didn't understand football and/or stats as much as you think you do.

Or you think people don't have access to the interwebs, I guess.

 

[Superman]

face it - Davis is Cooch's new Lawrence Timmons. Until Davis is gone, no matter what he does, Cooch will continue to piss on him.

 

[Superman]

Superman needs some help. Ramsey had 3 interceptions, and 13 PD's. Many teams avoided throwing his way. Wanna compare that to Davis? Also let's compare the tackles missed.

I do agree with you, Davis had more than 2 flags last season.

yes, mooseknuckle, Ramsey had 3 picks. I clearly stated that Ramsey had 3 INTs. But, to hear you blow Ramsey on here, the guy should have 99% of all passes thrown to him picked off or batted down.
and, while you wish Davis had more than 2 penalties, fact is he did not.
you'd know this **** if you watched the games instead of skimming the highlights on espn.

 

[Coach]

Again you collate the figures to fit your narrative. You say DBs....how about FS only idiot.

If Davis is tied at 80, what is Haden’s rank who is a CB with 1 more pick?

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You're a peculiar type of stipud, so in this case, I'll salt the hay and see if that works.


Among DB's Davis rates poorly on interceptions and passes defenses. Back up outshine him in this department. Understand Ike? Any 3rd rating party system you care you use will agree with me. He also a terrible tackler, as documented by Steeler Depot leading the team with a 20% miss tackle ratio. I've also seen Davis make some bad penalties.


Now if you care to debate the above, you must be a glutton for punishment. I don't own any of the facts, they agree with me and will repudiate any nonsense you can come up with here.

 

[Coach]

face it - Davis is Cooch's new Lawrence Timmons. Until Davis is gone, no matter what he does, Cooch will continue to piss on him.

Don't ya dare compare the two! Timmons was an excellent player, perhaps the best player on the defense for two years. A pro bowl guy who tackles well and added something vs. the pass. Anyone who ragged on Timmons until he got old doesn't know what he's watching.


Timmons > > > than Davis.

 

[ark steel]

In 2018, sean davis had 2 penalties. Both in game 3. 15 other games with no penalties.

 

[ark steel]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You're a peculiar type of stipud, so in this case, I'll salt the hay and see if that works.


Among DB's Davis rates poorly on interceptions and passes defenses. Back up outshine him in this department. Understand Ike? Any 3rd rating party system you care you use will agree with me. He also a terrible tackler, as documented by Steeler Depot leading the team with a 20% miss tackle ratio. I've also seen Davis make some bad penalties.


Now if you care to debate the above, you must be a glutton for punishment. I don't own any of the facts, they agree with me and will repudiate any nonsense you can come up with here.

You can't compare a FS in those stats to a CB. It is, simply ridiculous to do so.

Looked at another way, he leads all OL in ints and PDs...

 

[Superman]

I agree with Cooch.

His assessments are third rate, at best.

 

[Ike Kelly]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You're a peculiar type of stipud, so in this case, I'll salt the hay and see if that works.


Among DB's Davis rates poorly on interceptions and passes defenses. Back up outshine him in this department. Understand Ike? Any 3rd rating party system you care you use will agree with me. He also a terrible tackler, as documented by Steeler Depot leading the team with a 20% miss tackle ratio. I've also seen Davis make some bad penalties.


Now if you care to debate the above, you must be a glutton for punishment. I don't own any of the facts, they agree with me and will repudiate any nonsense you can come up with here.

Coach, your attempt at flaming is about as lame as your self idolization. As for using stats to prove your point.....well, that’s nothing but going through high school again won’t fix. That is if you even finished public education.

You were just schooled on the differentiations between CB and FS, yet you again state “among DBs” in your reply. You yourself gave a list of several FS who had LESS PDs than Davis. One being a pro-bowler. I guess in your myopic brain, Davis was just 2 picks away from being a pro-bowler.

Davis missed tackles for sure, but was less than last year. You focus on this statistic but what is it compared to other players? I haven’t found a site that list all player missed tackles by team. Does your rag site PFF? You wasted money on it...surely you could find something there to humor yourself.

You’ve been asked numerous times prove Davis rates poorly on in INTs and PDs, yet won’t provide the simple calculations to prove it. Number of passes targeted vs pass defended. I’ve given you 75% of the directions on proving your point. So either enthrall us with proof or just shut up.


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[Coach]

Coach, your attempt at flaming is about as lame as your self idolization. As for using stats to prove your point.....well, that’s nothing but going through high school again won’t fix. That is if you even finished public education.

You were just schooled on the differentiations between CB and FS, yet you again state “among DBs” in your reply. You yourself gave a list of several FS who had LESS PDs than Davis. One being a pro-bowler. I guess in your myopic brain, Davis was just 2 picks away from being a pro-bowler.

Davis missed tackles for sure, but was less than last year. You focus on this statistic but what is it compared to other players? I haven’t found a site that list all player missed tackles by team. Does your rag site PFF? You wasted money on it...surely you could find something there to humor yourself.

You’ve been asked numerous times prove Davis rates poorly on in INTs and PDs, yet won’t provide the simple calculations to prove it. Number of passes targeted vs pass defended. I’ve given you 75% of the directions on proving your point. So either enthrall us with proof or just shut up.


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I bury you with facts.


Here's another one. Okay, it's for the 2017 season, but they rate top strong safeties. 32 start as you know. Davis rates #51 overall, which is saying he should not be starting! So for those asking to compare him to others who play the same spot, you've got it here.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles...the-top-strong-safeties-of-2017-season#slide2


Gee, why do all third party football media sites say the same thing about Davis? Hmm...maybe because he's not very good. Two more picks is a lot IKE. Or 200% more than David produced. At times I think you must have suffered an injury that left you with cognitive difficulties.


As a free safety this year Davis lead the team in missed tackles, had a very low amount of interceptions and passes defended. I compare this to other DB's, and he sucks. Sure, you want a guy while misses 20% of his tackles and makes few plays on the ball as your starting free safety.

 

[Stryker]

Good thing Davis improved from #51 overall, last year.

 

[slashsteel]

I bury you with facts.


Here's another one. Okay, it's for the 2017 season, but they rate top strong safeties. 32 start as you know. Davis rates #51 overall, which is saying he should not be starting! So for those asking to compare him to others who play the same spot, you've got it here.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles...the-top-strong-safeties-of-2017-season#slide2


Gee, why do all third party football media sites say the same thing about Davis? Hmm...maybe because he's not very good. Two more picks is a lot IKE. Or 200% more than David produced. At times I think you must have suffered an injury that left you with cognitive difficulties.


As a free safety this year Davis lead the team in missed tackles, had a very low amount of interceptions and passes defended. I compare this to other DB's, and he sucks. Sure, you want a guy while misses 20% of his tackles and makes few plays on the ball as your starting free safety.

Regardless of how you feel about Davis, I don't think you scrap him with his first year at FS. Bring in some legitimate competition yes.

It isn't out of the ordinary for a player to take two to three years at a new position to settle in.

You have a SS probably being cut, and a young SS still learning his way. They really should bring in a FS in free agency.


And not the ******* bottom of the barrel either.


If this team approached the weaknesses as the double up mentality perhaps they wouldn't put themselves over and over again in a situation of being deficient in those areas.


Davis moves to FS who is brought in? a declining injury prone SS?

Bell didn't sign last year. So let's bring in fumbleRooney Ridley. Sureee Bell will sign and sure Conner will be healthy all year.

Ship off Martavis, sure a draft pick will be able to make up for it no problem.

Hunter will not disappoint sure let us keep him, he will eventually surprise when it counts.

Burns isn't showing well, we can make do with Sens and a unproven CB. We shouldn't knee-jerk some of that Bell money and bring in a experienced corner. Burns will eventually come around.

Boz hit the *******, he eventually will come around.

Let us keep a scheme that mandates a ILBer go into coverage, and put on the field two ILBers whose weakness is coverage.


We aren't talking one or two bad decisions here.

Tombert had a slew of them.

So coach when you harp on a player you might quickly want to turn to the people responsible for a plethora of fail regarding roster additions.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I think in several cases that before one blast the player, one should look at how the player is being coached. It's not every player's fail a coaching fault but some player's fail is directly tied to coaching.



Salute the nation

 

[slashsteel]

I think in several cases that before one blast the player, one should look at how the player is being coached. It's not every player's fail a coaching fault but some player's fail is directly tied to coaching.



Salute the nation

If this team wants to win despite the HC's shortcomings they need a DC equivalent to Fichtner.

But instead we have a DC playing linebackers coach and a HC playing DC, and a team that won't be playing in next years SB.

 

[wig]

we have a dc playing linebackers coach and a hc playing dc, and a team that won't be playing in next years sb.

... Qft ...