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Hidden Play: Week 15 vs New England: Other Ways to Use a Coach’s Challenge

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By G.Stryker: Games are full of special moments.  Most are easy to see and are part of the highlight reel each week.  Some moments happen just out of the limelight of the big play, but without their efforts those big plays don’t happen.  These hidden plays can be a block, a pressure, a tip, or […]

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Excellent write up G. And in my little entourage I mentioned this NOT being a reviewable play. All three of us agreed and actually commented on what had happened. One of my friends is staunchly anti TOMLIN......... But he actually gave him props on that one once he understood what the real reason the flag was about. Thanks again





Salute the nation
 
How did Tomlin know at the time that the play wasn't reviewable since they said originally that he was down? Wasn't he trying to get that reviewed since he wasn't down?
 
Vader said:
How did Tomlin know at the time that the play wasn't reviewable since they said originally that he was down? Wasn't he trying to get that reviewed since he wasn't down?
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There was no way Tomlin knew that the ref would change the call on the field to a call that was not reviewable before he threw the flag. Unless he is a psychic, which I am sure some here would claim that to be a fact.
 
Steeler Pride said:
There was no way Tomlin knew that the ref would change the call on the field to a call that was not reviewable before he threw the flag. Unless he is a psychic, which I am sure some here would claim that to be a fact.
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That's what I thought. Why do people make up **** just to try to make Tomlin look good? BTW I thought he fumbled it too and would have challenged it as well. He sure as hell wasn't thinking "This isn't challengeable play but I'll slow the game down by throwing my flag."
 
Ahh...now I know where Cope got all of his inside information which was regurgitated in the other thread. LOL.

As I pointed out there, the Steelers were far from not set, Brady was not hurrying anybody to the line with 11 on the play clock, and the interception occurred SIX plays and about three minutes of elapsed game time later, after NE had gotten a first-and-goal.

I was thinking that it was possible Tomlin didn't know the forward progress rule wasn't challengable, but you're right, Vader -- the down judge had clearly ruled him down running in from the sideline, so Tomlin was most likely just hoping for an overturn on the fumble call.
 
Yeah sorry not buying. I think the announcers made the same comment. The reality was Brady was hustling it to the line so the play wouldn't be reviewed. He was probably going to run a throw away play. The call was originally down by contact. Reviewable. He threw the challenge correctly. Huge play. Then the ref changed the call to forward progress . And while we are on the topic of great challenges how about on the punt to the goalline. Tomlin must have had at least three or four great looks at it. There is a TV timeout on the possession change. He still went ahead and threw away a challenge and timeout.
 
To be very succinct, it didn't matter whether or not the play change, the important thing was topping the clock. And no, even with 11 sec on the clock, you can't change personnel in that time. Hilton was moved on to the field during the challenge, and the very next play was intending to blitz, and got the LT to jump, so the personnel change was very impactful.

Also, as I stated in the other thread. At the time the penalty was ruled. The referee did state forward progress was stopped, but his mic wasn't on for that portion.

Topseed, I don't know what you see, but I see the Pats run to the LOS, the Steelers are just breaking their huddle, and in dissarray, when you see the challenge flag fly into the lower left portion of the frame. Objectively, you can't see this any other way.

 
Looks like youtube clipped my recording. Flag hits the field at 10:45 or 2sec into this video above.
 
And something that NE and Indi with Manning used to do very well, was dictate play and personnel matchups. If they have a personnel set on the field that creates a mismatch on D, they exploit it by running hurry up. You have to stop the clock to readjust personnel in these situations.
 
And the final result was getting a timeout without calling a timeout. That is a positive for clock management.
 
Here's a screenshot with the flag on the field:

Screen Shot 201.jpg
 
WTF, we still haven't fixed the damn picture viewing yet? It's been like 2 months??

Oh well, I added the photo to the bottom of the article. Take a look at how the Steelers are set, vs the Patriots set at the LOS, when the flag hits the field.
 
Cope said:
To be very succinct, it didn't matter whether or not the play change, the important thing was topping the clock. And no, even with 11 sec on the clock, you can't change personnel in that time. Hilton was moved on to the field during the challenge, and the very next play was intending to blitz, and got the LT to jump, so the personnel change was very impactful.

Also, as I stated in the other thread. At the time the penalty was ruled. The referee did state forward progress was stopped, but his mic wasn't on for that portion.

Topseed, I don't know what you see, but I see the Pats run to the LOS, the Steelers are just breaking their huddle, and in dissarray, when you see the challenge flag fly into the lower left portion of the frame. Objectively, you can't see this any other way.
Click to expand...

Again, you see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear.

The play clock runs down from :40, like it normally would. The referee begins to make an announcement at :24, then at :21 the mike comes on, and you clearly hear him say "down by contact, prior to the ball coming out." They show Tomlin talking into his headset at :15, then he throws the challenge flag at :13, and the play stops at :11.

So at this point, it would appear Tomlin is challenging the fumble based on what he heard the ref say, not some mythical fake challenge to stop the clock.

Yes, the Steelers broke the huddle a bit late, but so had the Patriots. By the :11 mark, Sensabaugh is up top on Gordon, Sutton is on Hogan, Edmunds is on Edelman, and Haden is on Gronk.

You're grasping at straws with your theory.
 
why not just call time out?
 
topseed said:
Again, you see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear.

The play clock runs down from :40, like it normally would. The referee begins to make an announcement at :24, then at :21 the mike comes on, and you clearly hear him say "down by contact, prior to the ball coming out." They show Tomlin talking into his headset at :15, then he throws the challenge flag at :13, and the play stops at :11.

So at this point, it would appear Tomlin is challenging the fumble based on what he heard the ref say, not some mythical fake challenge to stop the clock.

Yes, the Steelers broke the huddle a bit late, but so had the Patriots. By the :11 mark, Sensabaugh is up top on Gordon, Sutton is on Hogan, Edmunds is on Edelman, and Haden is on Gronk.

You're grasping at straws with your theory.
Click to expand...

Looks like you missed the still shot I added to the article. Take a look and tell me again how the Steelers were ready for that play.
 
Cope said:
Because when you challenge, you don't have to waste one.
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but when you lose the challenge, you've wasted one
 
Cope said:
Looks like you missed the still shot I added to the article. Take a look and tell me again how the Steelers were ready for that play.
Click to expand...

I don't need to look at your screenshot, I've got DVR, I watched the play several times now in real time, and the Steelers were in position before the Patriots were ready to snap the ball.

So, in spite of all the evidence I just pointed out to the contrary, you choose to ignore it, focus on your "they weren't set" mantra, and stick with your mythical stopping the clock theory?

Whatever, buddy. Tomlin Rulz.
 
topseed said:
I don't need to look at your screenshot, I've got DVR, I watched the play several times now in real time, and the Steelers were in position before the Patriots were ready to snap the ball.

So, in spite of all the evidence I just pointed out to the contrary, you choose to ignore it, focus on your "they weren't set" mantra, and stick with your mythical stopping the clock theory?

Whatever, buddy. Tomlin Rulz.
Click to expand...

Wrong Hater. You must have problems hitting pause. I love your argument. I'm right because I won't look at your proof. You must love politics...

Click here to see where you're wrong: Screenshot showing the D in dissaray and the challenge flag on the field, but topseed can't see it for some reason...
 
Regardless of the position or readiness of the defense, I don't believe for a moment that Tomlin threw a "clever" challenge flag. He threw the flag because the refs said down by contact. And BASED on that, it should have been a fumble. You'll note, after the refs talk a moment and give the flag back the head ref says "Correction". Tomlin was NOT stopping the play. He was challenging the fumble.

And it was the right challenge. But let's not try to make Mike Tomlin look like a coaching tactician here. Cause he ain't.
 
Cope said:
Wrong Hater. You must have problems hitting pause. I love your argument. I'm right because I won't look at your proof. You must love politics...

Click here to see where you're wrong: Screenshot showing the D in dissaray and the challenge flag on the field, but topseed can't see it for some reason...
Click to expand...

You don't normally act like a ******* cretin, so I won't tear you apart on this. I'll just explain it for the last time in all caps for you:

THE CHALLENGE FLAG IS THROWN AT :13.

BY THE TIME THE REFEREES STOP THE PLAY AT :11, THE STEELERS HAVE A MAN ON EVERY PATRIOTS RECEIVER.

SO, LIKE I SAID, THE STEELERS WERE IN POSITION BEFORE THE PATRIOTS WERE READY TO SNAP THE BALL, BECAUSE THEY HADN'T SNAPPED IT AT :11.


You can keep sucking Tomlin's **** until you're blue in the face, but no matter how much you want it to be, it wasn't some clever circumvention of the rules.
 
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