I agree with Paul Zeise on the Defense

[Drink IRON City]

Haden, Heyward, Watt, Tuitt, Hargrave are the 5 best players on D and I'd probably put them in that order. These guys can ball, show heart/leadership and could start for other teams. The problem is the other 6-8 regular players on D are bad, not even serviceable, just not good football players. Burnett and Bostic were cast offs who underwhelmed since being in the league. Our #2 CB is a rotation of suck. Our safeties get burnt constantly, whiff on tackles, and rarely make splash plays you need from safeties (unless it's breaking up an INT from your own player). Durpee is Jarvis 2.0. Forte is a career special teamer who is sadly a "bright spot" all of a sudden.

But the sad thing is I don't even blame the players. They are constantly being put in horrible positions by the scheme. I'm sure if Bostic was told before signing "we're signing you because we think you can shut down Keenan Allen" he would've laughed his *** off to another team.

Hilton made a name for himself as a nickel/dime back confusing defenses because you didn't know if he was dropping in coverage or blitzing, the latter he was actually damn good at but NEVER is called on to do anymore. Or Vince Williams who is a decent run stopper and is best at blitzing up the middle...nah let's constantly drop him in coverage.

It was alluded earlier in this thread but there is zero creativity on blitz and/or coverage schemes and even with the lack of creativity when youre asking your below average defensive players to man up and beat the guy in front of them because we can't think of anything else better to do, they're being put in literally the worst posssible positions from the "base" scheme. It is idiotic and I've honestly never seen anything like it watching the Steelers for 20 years.

/Rant over

Hilton would be #6 but it's hard to know on some of the other players as to what you've got. I've been watching since 68' and like you have never seen such a unfocused scheme, NOT PLAYERS but scheme of defense??? It's like WTF why are we not doing something to our stregnth and somewhat dictating instead of being a follower?? I've always been pro-active and NOT reactive which is what CMVLT's scheme seems to be. By being reactive you have guys filling roles that aren't meant to be filled by them. A reaction type situation. I think Bud Dupree has a good pin your ears back QB rush but is hardly ever in that place to do so, Williams is being used so out of position it's hilarious. WATT produces even against the scheme..................................... Most here can see this pretty easily but what makes it so HARD for MVLT to see this???? Is he really into absorbing the negativity or just NOT able to put scheme / adjustments / X & Os into the right place.

They had a defensive stretch where they actually were pretty good but then seemed to abandon that and went more to the 2DL & LB coverage C-R-A-P. Also about that time the other teams figured how to dictate who is going to cover who and it's been down hill from there. Is there no other alternative to CMVLT's thinking, WHY NOT make adjustments here and there?? Believe me, several here would be able to see the adjustments Mr. Mike TOMLIN even if it wasn't available to the naked eye (pending on how much smoke though). Football is a pretty simple game or it can be because if something isn't working you try something else and eventually you stumble into something that works but evidently the sun never shines on TOMLIN's ***.....................



Salute the nation

 

[JMM]

Haden, Heyward, Watt, Tuitt, Hargrave are the 5 best players on D and I'd probably put them in that order. These guys can ball, show heart/leadership and could start for other teams. The problem is the other 6-8 regular players on D are bad, not even serviceable, just not good football players. Burnett and Bostic were cast offs who underwhelmed since being in the league. Our #2 CB is a rotation of suck. Our safeties get burnt constantly, whiff on tackles, and rarely make splash plays you need from safeties (unless it's breaking up an INT from your own player). Durpee is Jarvis 2.0. Forte is a career special teamer who is sadly a "bright spot" all of a sudden.

But the sad thing is I don't even blame the players. They are constantly being put in horrible positions by the scheme. I'm sure if Bostic was told before signing "we're signing you because we think you can shut down Keenan Allen" he would've laughed his *** off to another team.

Hilton made a name for himself as a nickel/dime back confusing defenses because you didn't know if he was dropping in coverage or blitzing, the latter he was actually damn good at but NEVER is called on to do anymore. Or Vince Williams who is a decent run stopper and is best at blitzing up the middle...nah let's constantly drop him in coverage.

It was alluded earlier in this thread but there is zero creativity on blitz and/or coverage schemes and even with the lack of creativity when youre asking your below average defensive players to man up and beat the guy in front of them because we can't think of anything else better to do, they're being put in literally the worst posssible positions from the "base" scheme. It is idiotic and I've honestly never seen anything like it watching the Steelers for 20 years.

/Rant over

Sounds like Tomlin's determined to take the personnel he has and have them fit his defense. This is what eventually led Noll to the exit doors. Cowher and Capers took Noll's personnel and made the defense match their skills. Result= #1 seed in the AFC after a 7-9 season.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

From Day 1, Tomlin has been drafting players that fit the Tampa 2. Timmons was a bad fit in the 3-4. It took about 5 years before he became a decent ILB. Ziggy Hood was completely wrong as a 3-4 DE. Shazier could play any scheme but he was a wet dream for anybody wanting to run a Tampa 2.

Probably the most important piece of a Tampa 2 is a LB that has enough range that he can carry receivers downfield deep enough that the safeties can pick them up. The safeties are split wide so down the seam is a huge weak spot if you don't have that LB.

Tampa had Derrick Brooks. Chicago had Urlacher.

As soon as Shazier went down, they should have scrapped all the Tampa 2 stuff.

This defense should have enough talent to be competitive.

Here's the defense by round drafted
1st Round - Heyward, Watt, Dupree, Haden, Burns, Edmunds, Alualu
2nd Round - Tuitt, Bostic, Davis,
3rd Round - Hargrave, Bostic, Burnett

That's 10 guys drafted in first 2 rounds, plus Hargrave in the 3rd.

You say Burns and Dupree are busts? Anybody want to bet that Belichick would find roles for each of them? I bet he'd use Dupree as a designated rusher. Nothing else and he'd probably deliver 6-8 sacks just doing that. Burns would be a man coverage specialist. Any team with a big WR or TE, he'd have Burns just follow him all game.

 

[slashsteel]

From Day 1, Tomlin has been drafting players that fit the Tampa 2. Timmons was a bad fit in the 3-4. It took about 5 years before he became a decent ILB. Ziggy Hood was completely wrong as a 3-4 DE. Shazier could play any scheme but he was a wet dream for anybody wanting to run a Tampa 2.

Probably the most important piece of a Tampa 2 is a LB that has enough range that he can carry receivers downfield deep enough that the safeties can pick them up. The safeties are split wide so down the seam is a huge weak spot if you don't have that LB.

Tampa had Derrick Brooks. Chicago had Urlacher.

As soon as Shazier went down, they should have scrapped all the Tampa 2 stuff.

This defense should have enough talent to be competitive.

Here's the defense by round drafted
1st Round - Heyward, Watt, Dupree, Haden, Burns, Edmunds, Alualu
2nd Round - Tuitt, Bostic, Davis,
3rd Round - Hargrave, Bostic, Burnett

That's 10 guys drafted in first 2 rounds, plus Hargrave in the 3rd.

You say Burns and Dupree are busts? Anybody want to bet that Belichick would find roles for each of them? I bet he'd use Dupree as a designated rusher. Nothing else and he'd probably deliver 6-8 sacks just doing that. Burns would be a man coverage specialist. Any team with a big WR or TE, he'd have Burns just follow him all game.

He probably would have sent Burns packing. Cheat isn't afraid to shuffle players in and out.