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Another example of players just not being coached up.

slashsteel

slashsteel

Thank you for everything Franco, R I P.
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Tyler Matakevich said he got first-team reps in the base defense in place of Williams (hamstring injury) during Wednesday’s practice but L.J. Fort came in for some (passing-oriented) packages and rookie Matthew Thomas subbed each at times.
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Why isn't Thomas ready yet? It isn't like it isn't known what Big Red brings as a starter or Fort for that matter. You can pass on Red, and run on Fort.

They should have been force feeding Thomas since the final 53 to get him prepared to take on a bigger role.

Very rarely do they bench, and they just stay with their pecking order. It is like the X and O's on the field, very little adjustments to what is being shown in a game.

**** a rotation I want to see what the young kid can do.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.c...in-place-of-vince-williams-matthew-thomas-nfl
 
He played well in the pre-season and then was thrown on the pile once the regular season started and probably didn't see much significant practice time.
 
I mean damn.. how many defensive players drafted in the Tomlin era have consistently improved their game? Shazier comes to mind. Heyward has shown improvement in the past but is regressing way too early. Vince Williams has gotten better but his peak is still “barely good enough to start” he is far from an impact player. Honestly I’m running out of names. We simply do not coach up our defensive talent. At all. They are the exact same players today as they were as rookies


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slashsteel said:
Why isn't Thomas ready yet? It isn't like it isn't known what Big Red brings as a starter or Fort for that matter. You can pass on Red, and run on Fort.

They should have been force feeding Thomas since the final 53 to get him prepared to take on a bigger role.

Very rarely do they bench, and they just stay with their pecking order. It is like the X and O's on the field, very little adjustments to what is being shown in a game.

**** a rotation I want to see what the young kid can do.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.c...in-place-of-vince-williams-matthew-thomas-nfl
Click to expand...




This had been a reoccurring problem since,.............we you guessed it,................Cohwer's players retiring and Cool Shades has had to make a decision regarding roster starters......... ABSOLUTELY NO forward planning. Shazier is a great example and is still an excuse used to this day. How long has it been since he went down?? Who is in place? You get my drift. I know I'm not employed as a head coach but I know enough that you don't creat a hole by filling a hole and that is what Cool Shades seems to do best. He has NO contingency plan and YES even I could see the better value of THOMAS on the field so why NOT have been getting him ready in case. SO now it becomes a reaction instead of a pro action and Tomlin is behind instead of infront of this decision.





Salute the nnation
 
AggieSteel said:
I mean damn.. how many defensive players drafted in the Tomlin era have consistently improved their game? Shazier comes to mind. Heyward has shown improvement in the past but is regressing way too early. Vince Williams has gotten better but his peak is still “barely good enough to start” he is far from an impact player. Honestly I’m running out of names. We simply do not coach up our defensive talent. At all. They are the exact same players today as they were as rookies


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Click to expand...




WHEN you're the friend of the boss, you don't have to worry about job security. COACHING is the biggest question mark on this team, it's NOT the player who can play but it's the question of if the coach can coach. Look at all three facets, ST=failed coaching, D=failed coaching, O=failed coaching because they are bailed out continuously. MOST talented team with least achievement= failed coaching. What more can be said?????
 
PS. Sorry but forgot to mention the ONLY phase of coaching that has developed and improved has been OL coaching. MUNCH deserves his job alcolades as he has definitely shown visual and physical improvement on his players throughout his tenure. Can't argue this point.



Salute the nation
 
slashsteel said:
Why isn't Thomas ready yet? It isn't like it isn't known what Big Red brings as a starter or Fort for that matter. You can pass on Red, and run on Fort.

They should have been force feeding Thomas since the final 53 to get him prepared to take on a bigger role.

Very rarely do they bench, and they just stay with their pecking order. It is like the X and O's on the field, very little adjustments to what is being shown in a game.

**** a rotation I want to see what the young kid can do.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.c...in-place-of-vince-williams-matthew-thomas-nfl
Click to expand...

I think it should be obvious to all of us by now, that Mike Tomlin just isn't a very good teacher, and a by-product of that reality is that he isn't good at recognizing those who might be good teachers, at least with regards to defensive concepts (*cough*which is supposedly his specialty*cough*). It's almost as if he carries this preconceived notion in his own mind that because he isnt all that good at teaching the game, he has this mental complex where he's timid in his establishing roles for young, new faces on the field.
 
I said this before. Our D sucks. Let the young guys play and take their lumps now. They really can't be any worse than what we have been putting on the field and this will give them valuable experience. Thomas should see at least 50% of the snaps moving forward. He is our fastest ILB.
 
Slash, at least Thomas has an excuse , he's a rookie free agent. What about Jarvis Dupree. Raw talent in his what? 3rd year. First round pick.
 
Tomlin after preseason forgets some plays many had made. Never wants to throw in a new body maybe change things up or how the defense is playing the Steelers
 
slashsteel said:
Why isn't Thomas ready yet? It isn't like it isn't known what Big Red brings as a starter or Fort for that matter. You can pass on Red, and run on Fort.

They should have been force feeding Thomas since the final 53 to get him prepared to take on a bigger role.

Very rarely do they bench, and they just stay with their pecking order. It is like the X and O's on the field, very little adjustments to what is being shown in a game.

**** a rotation I want to see what the young kid can do.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.c...in-place-of-vince-williams-matthew-thomas-nfl
Click to expand...

Some take longer I guess. Ask James Harrison why it took him years to be ready.
 
Well boys I agree with most of everything posted here. I've thought along the same lines as the great Terry Bradshaw when he says Tomlin is a cheerleader and nothing more. Tomlin has failed on all levels here and I'm not going to list them all since we're all very well aware of them. The key however to fixing this mess is still up to one man and that is Art II. Its time for him to start building his legacy and defining his qualities as the Steeler's owner. His grandfather and especially his father defined theirs and they will live as icons as being some of the greatest owners in sports history. Now its time for the grandson and son to establish his place in Steeler's lore.

A huge decision will have to be made in the near future as far in what direction he wants his team to follow. The current path with the much overrated Tomlin will lead to mediocrity and frustration throughout the years, especially when the franchise QB finally decides he's had enough. Tomlin will continue to ride the wave of two SB appearances that grow further and further in the distance primarily fueled by his predecessors players and two excellent coordinators. The fans will grow more and more frustrated as the loses mount and the mediocrity becomes expected and somewhat accepted. The cry of "same old Steelers a term used years ago in the 60's could even return heaven forbid. This all could be Art II legacy and define him as an owner if he stays the course.

If he takes the other fork in the road after the season and decides his football teams needs a fresh approach with a young, innovative, bright, no-nonsense coach which would be Artie making his mark now and defining his legacy. The Tomlin hiring was primarily his fathers but this is now the time for the son to decide how he wants his team and his organization to be perceived going forward. This is Artie's time and its his chance to start taking steps to correct things. His minority owners tried to tell him as much after an embarrassing home playoff loss last season, his fans are becoming more and more disenchanted with the teams poor performances and antics on and off the field. His players are saying as much when those who chose to speak out echo the same sentiment, "no discipline". At seasons end which currently does not look as though it will end on a high note, Artie will need to make the most crucial decision of his ownership.One that most likely defines him as an owner for years to come. I'm not sure what it will finally take for him to take this later path, but all that I have to rely on is his being a Rooney and knowing the correct path to take.
 
stillwright said:
Some take longer I guess. Ask James Harrison why it took him years to be ready.
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At least he had a legit player ahead of him, Porter was one of the better LBs in the NFL from 2001-2006.

If dirty red sees significant time, then Tomlin needs kicked in the nuts. Atlanta isn't going to go bigs and try to pound us, and Freeman isn't a between the tackles type runner. Atlanta uses him out of the back field a decent amount.

There is absolutely no ******* reason Dirty Red should be on the field defensively.

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Coryea said:
At least he had a legit player ahead of him, Porter was one of the better LBs in the NFL from 2001-2006.

If dirty red sees significant time, then Tomlin needs kicked in the nuts. Atlanta isn't going to go bigs and try to pound us, and Freeman isn't a between the tackles type runner. Atlanta uses him out of the back field a decent amount.

There is absolutely no ******* reason Dirty Red should be on the field defensively.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
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Yep. Doesn't change the fact that Dick said Harrison wasn't ready. He was with the Ravens. They shipped him to Europe for a season. He came back. Got cut. Then was resigned by the Steelers and sat another year or so. I'm thinking it really didn't matter who was in front of Harrison. He was just not ready as a rookie. Or a second or third year player. Harrison himself has stated as much.
 
stillwright said:
Yep. Doesn't change the fact that Dick said Harrison wasn't ready. He was with the Ravens. They shipped him to Europe for a season. He came back. Got cut. Then was resigned by the Steelers and sat another year or so. I'm thinking it really didn't matter who was in front of Harrison. He was just not ready as a rookie. Or a second or third year player. Harrison himself has stated as much.
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Agreed, but everyone always tried to make the complaint that Lebeau never played the young guys, well sometimes they had really good players in front of them

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How much blame goes to Colbert and the scouting department?

This article is from 2017:

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2017/05/steelers-scouting-staff-model-consistency-stability/

A couple of things in the article stood out to me:
When you think of the Pittsburgh Steelers, you think of the continuity with their coaches. Three since 1969. Then there’s the general manager, Kevin Colbert, entering his 17th year with the team. It’s uncommon job security in the ultra-competitive, impatient world of sports, and certainly makes the Steelers unique.

“I think what Kevin Colbert and his group are really, really good at it, when they stack their board, they know what positions are priority for them,” Mike Mayock told Missi Matthews at the Scouting Combine. “Sticking to their board and trusting it. Kevin Colbert knows what a Pittsburgh Steeler looks like and smells like.”

And that’s completely true, to the point where Colbert’s tendencies have become somewhat predictable, not that it’s a bad thing. But the NFL Draft doesn’t begin with him. It starts with his scouting staff, who do the legwork during the fall. There’s continuity, familiarity with that bunch, and if that’s not equally important, it’s pretty darn close.
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Is the "Steeler Way" in regards to scouting/drafting just not working anymore? The criticism leveled at the HC, coordinators, and most of the assistants is well-deserved, and they're paid well to indeed "coach up" the players, but I can't help but wonder if our scouting/drafting template no longer works in order to succeed in today's NFL.
 
stillwright said:
Yep. Doesn't change the fact that Dick said Harrison wasn't ready. He was with the Ravens. They shipped him to Europe for a season. He came back. Got cut. Then was resigned by the Steelers and sat another year or so. I'm thinking it really didn't matter who was in front of Harrison. He was just not ready as a rookie. Or a second or third year player. Harrison himself has stated as much.
Click to expand...

Lots of players aren't ready when they are undrafted. Very few UDFA ever make a starting lineup and usually need time to develop. And during DL's tenure there were very good players in front of them. Now the Steelers are starting Bud Depressed, Jonathan Butstic, and Vince "No I really can't cover" Williams. Two of those are very low draft picks and Bud is a high draft pick that likes to run around the world to get to the QB. If they had any real talent any of these guys could be replaced.
 
Vader said:
Lots of players aren't ready when they are undrafted. Very few UDFA ever make a starting lineup and usually need time to develop. And during DL's tenure there were very good players in front of them. Now the Steelers are starting Bud Depressed, Jonathan Butstic, and Vince "No I really can't cover" Williams. Two of those are very low draft picks and Bud is a high draft pick that likes to run around the world to get to the QB. If they had any real talent any of these guys could be replaced.
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My point was Harrison was cut numerous times by multiple teams. Was sent to Europe to play. Then cut again. He couldn't stick on a team. I'm talking about the entire 53 man roster. Not the players that were starting. He wasn't even a back up of a back up. Some players just need time. Would I rather they start this kid over the crap we have playing now? Sure. The coaches seem to think he isn't ready. Hasn't even gotten a defensive snap yet I believe. A shame really.
 
suncitysteel said:
Is the "Steeler Way" in regards to scouting/drafting just not working anymore? The criticism leveled at the HC, coordinators, and most of the assistants is well-deserved, and they're paid well to indeed "coach up" the players, but I can't help but wonder if our scouting/drafting template no longer works in order to succeed in today's NFL.
Click to expand...

I would guess that Mayock has no insider knowledge and is just basing this off the Steelers being a steady franchise with just about everything they do.
 
As bad as the defense has been, play the damn kids already. The retread type layers we keep around because they can play ST aren't making a difference on the defensive side of the ball anyways. And it may be helpful if the offense would contribute for more than a half. There's an awful lot of money on that field when they're out there. Too much to go a half without scoring. Against ANY defense.
 
All I think this thread is about is that players should be benched if they aren't performing how they should, there should be consequences for poor play regardless of your name or contract amount. The players who are playing well and are hungry to play should be the ones on the field, Matthew Thomas showed himself to be a strong playmaker, and if there is one thing we need on this defense right now it's that. That was Shazier's role, to be a playmaking nightmare for opposing offenses. Bench players who deserve benching, we're losing anyways, see what we have behind them
 
ianv2012 said:
All I think this thread is about is that players should be benched if they aren't performing how they should, there should be consequences for poor play regardless of your name or contract amount. The players who are playing well and are hungry to play should be the ones on the field, Matthew Thomas showed himself to be a strong playmaker, and if there is one thing we need on this defense right now it's that. That was Shazier's role, to be a playmaking nightmare for opposing offenses. Bench players who deserve benching, we're losing anyways, see what we have behind them
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True as we -cough- don't live in our fears.
 
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