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Letting It Sink In

Our secondary is too damn stupid to play zone.
 
slashsteel said:
did you hang with Ray the other Charles?

At least he has a valid excuse for not watching a game.

:drum::third:
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youre-lame.jpg
 
Cope said:
Tomlin would have 2 superbowls if Mendenhall and Ben didn't turn the ball over...
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Maybe if they didn't come out flat and unprepared and got into an immediate 14-0 hole in the 1st quarter, sound familiar,they could have won the game against the Packers. He is an awful in game coach and we are suffering from his lack of intelligence and stubborness. Same problems from 10 years ago are still front and center.
 
I'm certainly not going to panic just yet. The last few seasons are filled with slow starts that resulted in winning seasons and playoffs. We'll see how this one pans out, but I'm ready to see them move on from Butler in the off-season. And if a new guy wants to clean house with his coordinators, then fine. There's no defensive position coach we can't live without right now.
 
Skott said:
Our secondary is too damn stupid to play zone.
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i think zone d is tough. i know madden isn't real life, but i will often play the drop back LB. If you have 2/3 people come in your zone it is impossible to cover them. If you play the deepest guy it's pitch and catch with the underneath guy. If you take the shallow route you get beat over the top. In the cover 2 for example when our lbs released Kelce the safety was too deep to help. If the LB stayed with Kelce the middle underneath is wide open. I just don't understand how one guy is supposed to cover one spot where multiple receivers enter.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
There is no discipline. Way too many penalties, and blown assignments all over the place. There's only 2 possibilities, the coaches aren't doing the job of teaching, or the players are too dumb.
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There could be a 3rd possibility. The players are too dumb, and the coaches aren't doing their job. Watt trying to cover one of the fastest WR in football is on the coaches.
 
Cope said:
Now you're getting it. They players do have the biggest impact, don't they?
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The coaches have to put them in the best position for their skill set to shine.

And when a coach is failing at that task, he needs to be replaced. Butler has enough work on paper from his tenure, to be shown the door.
 
Cope said:
Now you're getting it. They players do have the biggest impact, don't they?
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Harrison said that he was not following his assignment on that play and just went with gut instinct / game tape. However that still does not excuse our current terrible defensive schemes.
 
milkman dan said:
I'm certainly not going to panic just yet. The last few seasons are filled with slow starts that resulted in winning seasons and playoffs. We'll see how this one pans out, but I'm ready to see them move on from Butler in the off-season. And if a new guy wants to clean house with his coordinators, then fine. There's no defensive position coach we can't live without right now.
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So you are saying Cowher was better? Of his 12 playoff wins, 4 came in one season. After that has a .500 playoff record. I believe Cowher was a great coach. A superb innovator on the defensive side too. But he had poor playoff games as well. With the exception of the cheater, there are not many coaches in this era who have great playoff W/L percentages.


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Ike Kelly said:
So you are saying Cowher was better? Of his 12 playoff wins, 4 came in one season. After that has a .500 playoff record. I believe Cowher was a great coach. A superb innovator on the defensive side too. But he had poor playoff games as well. With the exception of the cheater, there are not many coaches in this era who have great playoff W/L percentages.


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Hey Ike, I get what you are saying but just curious as to what was Cohwer's play off record with a rookie / 2yr /3yr Ben on the team??

Pick any 3 years but NOT with in the first 5 years so as to not have the Cohwer influence, of Coach Tomlin's with Ben in the play offs.



Interesting. And thank you





Salute the nation
 
Coach Tomlin has his two buddies coaching beside him... that right there should be a red flag as neither guy comes with glowing resumes. The Steelers are one of the great franchises in all of sports like them or not when the Steelers play people stop what they are doing and watch. Seems like last year they would have reeled coach in a bit and forced him to change both coordinators and not just let him promote his buddies. The buddie system seldom works. We all know the Rooney’s aren’t going to fire him that’s fine but at least make the coordinators responsible. Both the offense and the defense would have benefited from new blood, new schemes, new Attitudes... I don’t see see butler really turning this around I think we’ll play some teams we are able to out score but I don’t see the return of blitzburgh anytime soon. It’s a long time to wait for next season..
 
Yeah really hard to conjecture without Cowher having a franchise QB until then end.

I have a feeling he would have won more than one SB though.

:smiley_abyz:
 
Drink IRON City said:
Hey Ike, I get what you are saying but just curious as to what was Cohwer's play off record with a rookie / 2yr /3yr Ben on the team??

Pick any 3 years but NOT with in the first 5 years so as to not have the Cohwer influence, of Coach Tomlin's with Ben in the play offs.



Interesting. And thank you





Salute the nation
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Beginning with Ben’s rookie year and ending with Cowher’s retirement

2004 (15-1) 1 - 1 playoffs
2005 (11-5) 4 - 0 playoffs (SB XL)
2006 (8-8) 0 -0 missed playoffs

Not sure why the beyond 5 years of Cowher’s influence is even relevant. Cowher had a bunch of Coach Noll’s players and was successful.

In any case...for Tomlin

2014 (11-5) 0 - 1 playoffs
2015 (10-6) 1 - 1 playoffs
2016 (11-5) 2 - 1 playoffs
2017 (13-3) 0 - 1 playoffs

What’s interesting is that Chin had MORE success in the regular season BEFORE Ben. He had 5 seasons of 11 or more wins but in total had a below .500 W/L record. Remember this includes the AFC champions year and 4 AFC championship losses.

I would say that the 4 playoff win team had destiny motive because of Bettis. No one was stopping that team. Other than that, Chin’s playoof record was uninspiring. Mind you they had cheaters stealing their signals for at least two of those playoff games.

I would say in more ways than one Tomlin is similar to Cowher. Yes he had Ben longer, but no Bettis. Parker for only a brief period. Cowher’s D got old quick and didn’t have enough picks to replace those players (Smith, Potsie, Hamp, Townsend). Circumstances dictate outcomes. ie. Mendenhall fumble, being Tebowed, who knows...that could be 2 SB there. Same with Cowher. I know no doubt those two NE games cost us championships. No NFC team was going to beat us.


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You aren't a true Steelers fan if u arent rooting for the J E T S
 
Ike Kelly said:
So you are saying Cowher was better? Of his 12 playoff wins, 4 came in one season. After that has a .500 playoff record. I believe Cowher was a great coach. A superb innovator on the defensive side too. But he had poor playoff games as well. With the exception of the cheater, there are not many coaches in this era who have great playoff W/L percentages.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app
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No, I'm just saying that we're off to a slow start and we've been off to slow starts before and recovered. It wasn't a comparison between Cowher and Tomlin. Just a commentary on being 0-1-1. Hopefully they bounce back and get in gear. But I hope Butler gets fired in the off-season. There's no point in firing him until the end of the season, but I'm convinced its on Butler.
 
Spike said:
You aren't a true Steelers fan if u arent rooting for the J E T S
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you have to root for the browns to win about 7 games. All these top 5 picks are starting to add up.

BTW, if Tyrod Taylor starts next week, Hue Jackson should be fired on the spot.
 
I've had a thing for the Jets since the Pennington team talked smack about us. I enjoyed seeing the Browns beat them. **** the Jets. Good for Cleveland. I've always enjoyed highly touted teams coming into the AFCN and getting smacked down. Nice to see Cleveland getting in the game.
 
21STEELERS21 said:
The defense would be much more effective just switching to more man coverage. I reviewed many of the big pass plays from Sundays game and the receivers are initially covered well.
The problem arises when the initial coverage drops off and the zone coverage is suppose to pick up the man. Seems like the KC QB knew when the initial coverage was releasing and
delivered the ball to the receiver before the deeper zone coverage picked up the receiver. Many of these passes would not have been completed if the initial coverage person had stayed
with their man.
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nitsuj1225 said:
This. What's the only half of football where the D looked like a strength? The first half of the Browns game when it was almost exclusively man to man. Haden is a damn good player but his absence had no bearing on Burns getting torched or safeties being out of position or ILB's covering fast WR's, so it had to be a scheme change with Haden's injury simply being the catalyst.

Everyone just looked lost running zone which has happened too many times to count whenever they run a zone heavy scheme since the end of the LeBeau era.

Man to man allows the defense to dictate the matchups instead of vice versa. Andy Reid has faced our zone too many times to have the zone "confuse" him. He knew how to attack it, just as Belichek has always known how to attack it. When we run zone the same exact issues keep recurring (mismatches, blown assignments, lack of a pass rush, etc.) so just stop. Why do the coaches make it seem like rocket science?
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What has yet to sink in for me is how a guy making 7 million dollars a year (just think about that for a second) to make the head coaching decisions for the Steelers, especially a man with a supposed defensive pedigree, continues to be completely clueless as to what type of defense he should put on the field.

THIS BULLSHIT ZONE COVERAGE THAT MAY HAVE BEEN ADEQUATE 15 YEARS AGO IS NO LONGER EFFECTIVE IN TODAY'S NFL.

Especially against accurate quarterbacks. Especially when you all but abandon a cooperative blitzing scheme, and employ an edge "rusher" who's as useless as a second dick. What happened to bringing Hilton on the blitz?

I actually was pleasantly surprised last year in the New England game when they played man coverage, and ostensibly, if not for the officials, beat the Patriots. I really thought Tomlin had finally turned the corner and perhaps figured some things out.

I thought wrong.
 
topseed said:
I actually was pleasantly surprised last year in the New England game when they played man coverage, and ostensibly, if not for the officials, beat the Patriots. I really thought Tomlin had finally turned the corner and perhaps figured some things out.
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I'm thinking in today's NFL you need to rush 4 DL's and pretty much everyone else plays man. Or maybe your LB's play zone but the DB's play man.

I thought wrong.
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The problem is, you can't really play man vs a running QB. Man coverage means DBs with their backs to the QB so he can take off running and get chunks of yards.

The standard pass rush is 5 guys. In the 4-3, that usually means all 4 DL plus a LB rush on most plays. In the 3-4 it's usually 3 Dl and 2 LBs.

The 3-4 is similar to the old school 5-2 defense because the OLBs in the 3-4 are more DE than LB. Notice how Heyward's official position is now DT.

I'm getting concerned with Hargrave. I had high hopes that he could be disruptive at NT and maybe even stay in a rush the passer in the nickel. I'd still like to see that. I'd rather they leave Hargrave in there and take out an ILB to bring on the added DB.
 
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