And James to catch the ball and AB to run the right damn route
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No leadership, no winning culture.
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Like Suisham a few years ago (although that worked out well for us in the long run)
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Ben played like ****, period, I'm not denying that. And although I think Tomlin ****** up by going all Cowher /schottenheimer with his turtle ball, I'm also not blaming him for this loss.
I'm not blaming Ben for 6 turnovers because:
1). Ben did not fumble one of those, it was Conner (I know that you know, just pointing it out). Conner played great!
2). Ben did not make Jessie James miss the easiest catch of the game. This one was 0% Ben, 100% Jessie.
3). Ben did not make AB turn on his route on the long ball, but they miscommunicated. I'll give him partial fault (this was 1/3 Ben, 1/3 AB, and 1/3 Tomlin for not playing them more in the preseason).
4). Ben DID **** up and force the throw at the 9 yard line early in the game. This one is 100% on Ben.
5). "Ben's fumble" at 6:44 in the 4th quarter is 100% on Big Al and David DeCastro. Big Al bypassed Miles and blocked the inside man. David Decastro pulled and whiffed on Miles. Miles came in untouched and was on Ben within 2 seconds. 2 Seconds. Go back and watch it. NO QB could have gotten that ball of in time. This one is on Big AL and David Decastro. What the **** was that? And to top it off, it was a BAD SNAP. Anyone that blames Ben for this one is blind. Maybe you could blame him for not just falling on it from the get go, but that is not Ben and I wouldn't want him to give up that easily.
6). The last turnover at the end of OT, I can't remember if it was ruled an INT or a fumble by Ben, he was scrambling to make a play and he didn't see the guy behind him. 60% Ben, 40% oline.
So, in summary, there is plenty of **** to eat for everyone on the team. I'm NOT blaming Tomlin, I'm NOT blaming Ben. Did they both **** up? Yes. BUT it was a team effort clusterfuck. Ben and Tomlin always get the blame as team leaders though.
The bright light here is Watt and Conner.
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I’ll take my chances when “it counts.” Don’t think it makes sense to expose starters to unnecessary risk in a preseason game. Look how nervous people got when Bill bumped his head in practice.
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Not sure if anyone else noticed, but all of his extra point kicks were barely inside the left upright. Before he kicked it, I was scared shitless that he was going to over-adjust and miss wide right. But just like the others, too much to the left.
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Well, we certainly aren't going to blame Ben, right? I mean that pass to the, what 6'8" James wasnt high, he wasnt off of his receivers much of the day.
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So just to be clear from most of you Tomlin is to blame for Ben’s bad day but gets no credit at all for Watt’s big day or for Conner’s 192 yards? If all the bad is on the coach then all the good is too. If all the good is on the players then all the bad is too. You can’t put the bad on the coaches and the good on the players and call yourself being at all objective.
Oh, and by the way, Watt was held out almost all preseason too. How did that work out?
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Oh, and by the way, Watt was held out almost all preseason too. How did that work out?
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LOL the pass hit him right in his hands at face level, he took his eyes off it.
Ben played pretty crappy most of the day, but all he turnovers weren't on him like so many want to say.
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BS. Ben is a 15yr veteran. He has ti know where Garrett is and how much time he has.
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I may be thinking of another ay, then.
LMAO, yeah he should know no one was going to touch him, ok.
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I checked the James play. That was not the play i was thinking of.
Whatever you do, absolutely, absolve Ben of those errors, some unforcedz just like you did in both jax games last year.
You are going to have to twist around more tha Supe and Coolie at the gay clubs, but i have faith you will do it.
Ark, please watch it again and tell me what Ben, Brady, Rogers, Favre, Marino, Unitas, etc. could have done in this situation (number 5 in my list above).
http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburg...60348/Every-big-play-by-Browns-defense-Week-1
Look at 2:16 in the video, which is at 6:49 left in the fourth quarter. Please watch it.
6:48 left, Ball is not yet snapped
6:47 left, Bad snap, which Ben picks up at and secures it. Big Al has already turned in, leaving Miles Garrett unblocked. Decastro begins to pull.
6:46 left, Miles is almost on Ben as he is turning, Decastro can't get to him.
6:46 STILL left, Miles hits Ben and the ball is out.
There is NOTHING Ben could do about that. Please rewatch it brother and let me know what you think.
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Boz just missed it. It happens to all kickers. However, being a team captain, disappointed to hear he was first out of the locker room to duck questions from the writers. Hold your head up Boz, everyone understands you are angry at yourself, but you have answer questions as a team Captain. Regardless of how stupid or repetitive those questions are.
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Absolve him? Ive said how dumb that first int was, horrible, I've said several times he played ****** most of the day, but you guys that don't want to see that others ****** up that helped create turnovers too, is laughable.
How can anyone blame that int that went right through James hands on him? The second INT, AB cuts his route off, the OC in the booth knew it right away, so did Trent Green.
The first fumble, the snap is at his ankles, he picks it up and tries to throw a quick screen and Garrett is hitting his arm already because no one blocked him, how is that on him?
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Let's only blame Ben it's all his fault honest!
*missed field goal
*RB fumble
* O-line rusty too
* preseason coaching failure
all Ben !
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It was apparent after the Jacksonville **** show last year.,iIf you can’t call out the QB for having a **** game, you can’t begin to have an honest conversation.
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Ben did not play well, but the protection and receiving was not sharp either.
They let Miles Garrett, the one defender up front they needed to be concerned about, kill them all freaking game.
No adjustments at all.
They let Miles Garrett, the one defender up front they needed to be concerned about, kill them all freaking game.
No adjustments at all.
Could you kindly remind us Watt's completion percentage or QB rating for this game?
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So go ahead and completely miss the point of the post. According to this forum Watt (yes a defensive player) had a great game because he is just good and Ben (yes an offensive player) had a horrible game because Tomlin is bad.
If everything bad is Tomlin's fault then everything good is his work too. Can't have it both ways.
So if last year's four losses (3 regular season and 1 playoff) are completely on Tomlin then so are all 13 victories. If players who perform below expectations are Tomlin's fault then players who perform above expectations are the result of his coaching too.
The hate Tomlin crowd on here would have every victory happen because the players somehow overcame horrid coaching to struggle through and win but every loss was due to coaching ineptitude.
The love Tomlin crowd would have every victory be all because of coaching acumen and every loss happen because of player execution.
The truth is that both are factors of varying percentages based on a particular game. Yesterday's tie was, in my opinion, 10% on coaching and 90% on player execution.
But if you want to think it was due 100% coaching problems then please let's have this conversation when they win and see if you think it is 100% coaching brilliance.
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I think it was more than 10% coaching.
You could Ben / timing was bad due to lack of preseason.
We still have the bubble screen in the playbook
Should have given Al help to block Garrett
Went way too conservative at the end of the game
Way too conservative in OT (should have played for a better FG)
No rest for Connor when you could tell he was running out of juice
What % that adds up to I have no idea, but Ill go 60% execution 40% coaching
All games come down to coaches having about a 10% impact on the game. They aren't on the field executing.
Unless you're the Pats with the playcalls of the other team, then you have a 60% influence so your un talented teams could win championships...
Unless you're the Pats with the playcalls of the other team, then you have a 60% influence so your un talented teams could win championships...
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10% on the physical side of the game but 30+% on the mental side of the game. The team takes on their coache's identity and focus is HUGE in the NFL. Lackadazicalness or prepared steel sharpening steel comes from the coach 1st. That would be more my guess based on my countless years of NFL experience within the game...................Oh, wait..the last sentence may not be true.
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I somewhat agree here. We are talking apples and oranges though. I am between you and Cope on the coaching percentages. But I am also factoring in preseason which I feel many are leaving out.
I am thinking 20% coaching 80% players. Which is fair if you think of everything mixed in. The game could have been won, should have been won. But the coaches and players did everything in their power to make it a ugly performance.
But all of our percentages are subjective including mine.
What isn't subjective is both parties have a hand in the tie. But both parties have a opportunity to turn it around Sunday.
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I have said for three years now no leaders on this team. The play was good but eight minutes left and the team was already in the dressing room.