NFL’s Proposed National Anthem Rules: Penalties for Kneeling Being Considered

[Stryker]

Certainly worth looking into whether or not officers who are acting illegally are not getting prosecuted. Is that the point of the protests? That's the big crisis in the black community? OK. Might be more effective if there weren't also riots and protests over legitimate police actions.

On the student loan thing - I didn't say "Who cares?, I said "So what?". There should be nothing remarkable about money coming due from a loan. Did you take out those loans expecting that someone else would pay for them? I'm not chiding an entire generation, just the people who don't think they should have to pay back their loans. You talk about prior generations' greed, and you are looking for a way out of loans that you took out. Too funny.

I don't think the point is it's your fault for taking out loans, as much as loan prices have increased exponentially, and if you want a corporate job, you need a higher education. Universities have their students by the balls now. I went in the mid 90s, and my tuition was $12k/yr. 4 years was only $48k. Now universities are solidly $40-$60k/yr. Racking up $200k in debt is criminal for these institutions that already have money stockpiled within them, gaining more interest than they take in student payments each year. It's a scam. My school alone is up to $35kyr. or $140k for 4 years. Want to be an engineer? That's a 5 year program, BAM $175k. It's unregulated and it's the only form of loan that you can not dissolve with bankruptcy. These loans are fully guaranteed, and interest keeps compounding.

This bubble will burst, it is an unregulated, unsustainable model, so something will be giving soon.

 

[AggieSteel]

Certainly worth looking into whether or not officers who are acting illegally are not getting prosecuted. Is that the point of the protests? That's the big crisis in the black community? OK. Might be more effective if there weren't also riots and protests over legitimate police actions.

Yes that's a major point of the protests, and it is a huge crisis for many who feel they have to live in fear of those who are sworn to protect us, and must also raise their young children with that awareness. When murderous police (not saying every case is like this, but plenty are) get away with it, and the local DAs and cop buddies are protecting them, it just enables it to continue further. It's been happening for decades in this country, and it has always been protested in some form or fashion.

On the student loan thing - I didn't say "Who cares?, I said "So what?". There should be nothing remarkable about money coming due from a loan. Did you take out those loans expecting that someone else would pay for them? I'm not chiding an entire generation, just the people who don't think they should have to pay back their loans. You talk about prior generations' greed, and you are looking for a way out of loans that you took out. Too funny.

At no point did I say that I am "looking for a way out" of my loans. Your only real counterpoint is to put words in my mouth I never said and make me into a fake hypocrite that you can discredit? Come on dude. It's not about "me". I'm fine, I make bank. I'm pointing out the IMPACT of the student loan crisis on the whole economy, and why it is not simply a "So what?" crisis. It matters to EVERYONE, not just those of us who have the loans. And I'm definitely not saying I, or anyone else, think we should be "forgiven" or "get out" or whatever.

And Cope is 100% right. It is completely unsustainable, the costs have risen ENORMOUSLY and it puts kids in the position to choose if they want to actually pursue their goals, or avoid massive debt. Can't you see that the massive difference in cost, just over a few decades, is completely out of sorts? There's a difference between having $10k in loan debt, and having $150k in loan debt. And kids are overwhelmed with the message "go to college or you'll flip burgers the rest of your life" throughout childhood, and are usually about 16-17 when deciding on a path that will put them in massive debt. And because the government hands it out like candy, universities don't give a damn and put whatever price tag they want on it. This can't just be blown off. There are NO good choices here for our youth unless they want to get into some trade or be an entrepreneur with no education. It is totally unsustainable, and morally wrong. And bad for the entire economy, not just the students. It is far from "so what"

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Certainly worth looking into whether or not officers who are acting illegally are not getting prosecuted. Is that the point of the protests? That's the big crisis in the black community? OK. Might be more effective if there weren't also riots and protests over legitimate police actions.

On the student loan thing - I didn't say "Who cares?, I said "So what?". There should be nothing remarkable about money coming due from a loan. Did you take out those loans expecting that someone else would pay for them? I'm not chiding an entire generation, just the people who don't think they should have to pay back their loans. You talk about prior generations' greed, and you are looking for a way out of loans that you took out. Too funny.

Interesting response up top. Is it possible that many of these riots after "legitimate police actions" occur in the wake of previous interactions where the actions weren't so legitimate? And let's be honest here, what are white folks "protesting" when they riot after their teams win sporting events. (lol ... no, but seriously ... what?). So, if we're going to look at this through the lens of stereotypes, I'd say that when minorities riot, the majority of those riots are for a perceived "cause" (social injustice, police brutality, etc.), while Caucasians riot over sporting events. Tell me, which one of those seems a little absurd?

 

[Sarge]

I agree college cost way too much, but having said that........

My son is going to a 4 year school, and his yearly cost is $11K. My daughter will wrap up her ADN next May, and she will have spent a total of about $13K. You can go to school, get a good education in a career field that is in demand and do it for less than some of the figures you guys are throwing out. The problem comes, admittedly not for everybody, but a good many, when a kid goes to a school like Duke, gets a degree in Women's Studies or some such that has no real career field, and then can't find work in the degree program he or she took. You could go to a community college and get the same degree for about 1/10th of the price.

Maybe instead of asking the government for student loan forgiveness, to which I am opposed by the way, maybe we should be asking why an engineering degree costs $175K, or why a tenured professor is making $300,000 a year to teach one class for one semester. I put the blame on the school for what they charge, and the government for signing off of it.

The career I am in now requires a bachelors degree, and I got it waived because I have extensive experience in the field. I have a friend who works as an electrical engineer, never went to college one day in his life. So, you don't necessarily have to have a degree to get a good paying job.

 

[Sarge]

Well, since the racial whataboutism has begun, I will head elsewhere for my entertainment.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Well, since the racial whataboutism has begun, I will head elsewhere for my entertainment.

I wouldn't call it racial whataboutism. I actually see some honest discussion going on here. Has it made me "uncomfortable" at times? Yep. But that's what happens when folks discuss "delicate" issues that they are approaching from different perspectives. People are made to feel uncomfortable. Problem is, a lot of us of us lament the whole "P.C." culture, but don't like the uncomfortable feelings that come with open and honest discourse.
Anyway, I appreciate the input you've had in this thread and hope you stick around.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

I have no idea the behind the decision to wear those socks. None. Still doesnt make it ok to ignore the issue..

No but it does make you look like a police hating racist yourself doesn’t it ? When he did that he lost all credibility. That is not someone wanting change.

 

[antdrewjosh]

No but it does make you look like a police hating racist yourself doesn’t it ? When he did that he lost all credibility. That is not someone wanting change.

Probably the wrong route to take if you are trying to get people to listen i agree. I cant and wont try to excuse it or justify it.. still doesnt dismiss the issue

 

[Supersteeler]

I have no idea the behind the decision to wear those socks.

I do. He wanted to be a ******* *******. He succeeded.

 

[AggieSteel]

I agree college cost way too much, but having said that........

My son is going to a 4 year school, and his yearly cost is $11K. My daughter will wrap up her ADN next May, and she will have spent a total of about $13K. You can go to school, get a good education in a career field that is in demand and do it for less than some of the figures you guys are throwing out. The problem comes, admittedly not for everybody, but a good many, when a kid goes to a school like Duke, gets a degree in Women's Studies or some such that has no real career field, and then can't find work in the degree program he or she took. You could go to a community college and get the same degree for about 1/10th of the price.

Maybe instead of asking the government for student loan forgiveness, to which I am opposed by the way, maybe we should be asking why an engineering degree costs $175K, or why a tenured professor is making $300,000 a year to teach one class for one semester. I put the blame on the school for what they charge, and the government for signing off of it.

The career I am in now requires a bachelors degree, and I got it waived because I have extensive experience in the field. I have a friend who works as an electrical engineer, never went to college one day in his life. So, you don't necessarily have to have a degree to get a good paying job.

I completely agree that it's the cost that is the main problem. Also that not everyone is snowed under in massive amounts of debt. You can go to community college or a cheap state school if you're just interested in the piece of paper. But most really good schools with good reputations are the ones with the hefty price tags. And I do not believe anyone who can go to these schools should just turn down the opportunity -- the networking and quality of education opens doors that lesser known state schools or community colleges just can't. And even highly employable majors (not just philosophy and women's studies) have this problem. If you have debt and come out making minimum wage because your major was useless in the job market, then you're REALLY in trouble. But even people with decent white collar jobs are having trouble. Someone I am very close to is a pharmacist making crazy bank, but drives a 20 year old car and can't save to buy a home because of the 6 figure student debt it required for her to obtain her credentials. It's sad and it's only getting worse. Peruse through these charts and see how the debt is mounting, wages aren't increasing, and it's far disproportionately destroying millennials. But the difference in earning between having the degree and not is so big, it's still something many feel they need to do: http://www.loanlab.co/8-charts-that-illustrate-the-mounting-student-loan-crisis/

No but it does make you look like a police hating racist yourself doesn’t it ? When he did that he lost all credibility. That is not someone wanting change.

I fail to see why your disdain for the messenger makes the message any less important. Even if you just can't take anything seriously that Kaepernick says, there are millions of people who believe in his cause just as strongly as he does. If you have anything relevant to say about the actual message, and not irrelevant ad hominem attacks against one messenger, then say that. Otherwise, statements like this bring nothing to the conversation whatsoever

 

[SCSteeler4life]

I completely agree that it's the cost that is the main problem. Also that not everyone is snowed under in massive amounts of debt. You can go to community college or a cheap state school if you're just interested in the piece of paper. But most really good schools with good reputations are the ones with the hefty price tags. And I do not believe anyone who can go to these schools should just turn down the opportunity -- the networking and quality of education opens doors that lesser known state schools or community colleges just can't. And even highly employable majors (not just philosophy and women's studies) have this problem. If you have debt and come out making minimum wage because your major was useless in the job market, then you're REALLY in trouble. But even people with decent white collar jobs are having trouble. Someone I am very close to is a pharmacist making crazy bank, but drives a 20 year old car and can't save to buy a home because of the 6 figure student debt it required for her to obtain her credentials. It's sad and it's only getting worse. Peruse through these charts and see how the debt is mounting, wages aren't increasing, and it's far disproportionately destroying millennials. But the difference in earning between having the degree and not is so big, it's still something many feel they need to do: http://www.loanlab.co/8-charts-that-illustrate-the-mounting-student-loan-crisis/


I fail to see why your disdain for the messenger makes the message any less important. Even if you just can't take anything seriously that Kaepernick says, there are millions of people who believe in his cause just as strongly as he does. If you have anything relevant to say about the actual message, and not irrelevant ad hominem attacks against one messenger, then say that. Otherwise, statements like this bring nothing to the conversation whatsoever

So the messenger can be a police hating racist , but I’m suppose to consider his request even though he holds himself to absolutely no standard at all. That is 100% total bullshit.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Probably the wrong route to take if you are trying to get people to listen i agree. I cant and wont try to excuse it or justify it.. still doesnt dismiss the issue

Even if the issue isn’t cops kill more black men during arrest has been proven again and again not be true. They are just publicized way more by the media, because race baiting sells papers and increases internet traffic. I believe the relationship between the public and cops can always be improved no matter your skin color. But a start in improving that can be don’t raise your kids to hate co-s, raise them to respect them no matter your skin color.

 

[Sarge]

I completely agree that it's the cost that is the main problem. Also that not everyone is snowed under in massive amounts of debt. You can go to community college or a cheap state school if you're just interested in the piece of paper. But most really good schools with good reputations are the ones with the hefty price tags. And I do not believe anyone who can go to these schools should just turn down the opportunity -- the networking and quality of education opens doors that lesser known state schools or community colleges just can't. And even highly employable majors (not just philosophy and women's studies) have this problem. If you have debt and come out making minimum wage because your major was useless in the job market, then you're REALLY in trouble. But even people with decent white collar jobs are having trouble. Someone I am very close to is a pharmacist making crazy bank, but drives a 20 year old car and can't save to buy a home because of the 6 figure student debt it required for her to obtain her credentials. It's sad and it's only getting worse. Peruse through these charts and see how the debt is mounting, wages aren't increasing, and it's far disproportionately destroying millennials. But the difference in earning between having the degree and not is so big, it's still something many feel they need to do: http://www.loanlab.co/8-charts-that-illustrate-the-mounting-student-loan-crisis/

As I said, I don't have a degree, and in my career field I am making as much as the guy next to me that has one. Same with my buddy. A lot of companies are willing to waive degree requirements and they still can't find quality candidates because those with and without degrees mostly sound like idiots during the interview. I can appreciate the things you stated in your post. Honestly. But for some, it simply isn't realistic. And considering that the cat is out of the bag on what higher education costs, if you still choose to go that route you have bear at least some responsibility for the debt you incur, especially when there are cheaper options available. May not be as prestigious, but you get an education without a mountain of debt.

As I said before, the schools are charging that much because they can. Have to pay those fat professors salaries somehow. Same with the $5 million a year the football coach is getting. I agree it is ridiculous. But perhaps if people choose the cheaper options, the market corrects and the cost of private schools comes down some. If they lose enrollment, they are going to have to lower costs. I agree something has to be done going forward, but I can't get on board with forgiving debt over personal choices. This is where parents come in. "Billy, maybe being $120,000 in debt at age 22 isn't the best option for you." No, parents want that trophy child. Can't go to community college for a piece of paper. You need to get the EXPENSIVE, prestigious piece of paper.

 

[MTC]

Even if the issue isn’t cops kill more black men during arrest has been proven again and again not be true. They are just publicized way more by the media, because race baiting sells papers and increases internet traffic. I believe the relationship between the public and cops can always be improved no matter your skin color. But a start in improving that can be don’t raise your kids to hate co-s, raise them to respect them no matter your skin color.

The media will go to lengths it seems to push a narrative.
They'll over sensationalize, and I'll be out in the real world thinking cops are not bad, racism --- yes prevalent, but not really encountered on a daily basis.

 

[Sarge]

Something else. My daughter attends nursing school at Pitt Community College and Greenville, NC. Hospitals in that area recruit that little community college harder than they do UNC, Duke, NC State and ECU because of the quality of the education. Just because it is a big reputable school doesn't mean it is always the best. You can research and find reputable programs at state schools that are on par with the best in the country. That's why to me, if you choose to take on that mountain of debt because of the supposed prestige of one of the schools you mentioned, that makes it a personal choice. That isn't anyone else's fault, given what we know about the cost of education today.

 

[slashsteel]

There is free schools out there, people just have to have the want to.

 

[AggieSteel]

So the messenger can be a police hating racist , but I’m suppose to consider his request even though he holds himself to absolutely no standard at all. That is 100% total bullshit.

Yes you are. Because 1) just because you don't like someone doesn't mean everything they say is invalid and 2) he's far from the ONLY person saying this message. He might be the only one that's visible to someone like yourself who doesn't give a **** about the issues he brings to light, but there are MILLIONS. If you can manage to take any of them seriously (doubtful) then listen to them instead. Either way, your feelings about the messenger are irrelevant. Your stance is 100% total bullshit.

Even if the issue isn’t cops kill more black men during arrest has been proven again and again not be true. They are just publicized way more by the media, because race baiting sells papers and increases internet traffic. I believe the relationship between the public and cops can always be improved no matter your skin color. But a start in improving that can be don’t raise your kids to hate co-s, raise them to respect them no matter your skin color.

More 100% total bullshit. Proven again and again not to be true? You are so full of ****. Must be nice to "believe" certain things when you can speak from the perspective of not having to worry about your skin color at all. https://www.vox.com/cards/police-brutality-shootings-us/us-police-racism

As I said, I don't have a degree, and in my career field I am making as much as the guy next to me that has one. Same with my buddy. A lot of companies are willing to waive degree requirements and they still can't find quality candidates because those with and without degrees mostly sound like idiots during the interview. I can appreciate the things you stated in your post. Honestly. But for some, it simply isn't realistic. And considering that the cat is out of the bag on what higher education costs, if you still choose to go that route you have bear at least some responsibility for the debt you incur, especially when there are cheaper options available. May not be as prestigious, but you get an education without a mountain of debt.

As I said before, the schools are charging that much because they can. Have to pay those fat professors salaries somehow. Same with the $5 million a year the football coach is getting. I agree it is ridiculous. But perhaps if people choose the cheaper options, the market corrects and the cost of private schools comes down some. If they lose enrollment, they are going to have to lower costs. I agree something has to be done going forward, but I can't get on board with forgiving debt over personal choices. This is where parents come in. "Billy, maybe being $120,000 in debt at age 22 isn't the best option for you." No, parents want that trophy child. Can't go to community college for a piece of paper. You need to get the EXPENSIVE, prestigious piece of paper.

Something else. My daughter attends nursing school at Pitt Community College and Greenville, NC. Hospitals in that area recruit that little community college harder than they do UNC, Duke, NC State and ECU because of the quality of the education. Just because it is a big reputable school doesn't mean it is always the best. You can research and find reputable programs at state schools that are on par with the best in the country. That's why to me, if you choose to take on that mountain of debt because of the supposed prestige of one of the schools you mentioned, that makes it a personal choice. That isn't anyone else's fault, given what we know about the cost of education today.

I don't like the anecdotal example of getting into a career without a degree given years of experience. I question whether you are the exception or the norm. That tells me you are of an older generation where, when you were entering, there weren't the stringent education requirements and HR software filtering you out from the applicant pool if you don't have the experience. In the past, it was much easier to "get your foot in the door" through networking, showing a skill, etc without the proper education, then "grandfathering" your way into positions that NOW require degrees. I know one person in a similar situation as you and she makes less than her coworkers because of the lack of degree. But just to get in the door, everything is automated and software based now, and the millennials entering the workforce were so plentiful, employers do not have to "take a chance" on an uneducated person because there are hundreds of people with the required education applying for the same position. It is simply not feasible anymore. I understand there may be some one off examples of that here and there, not saying it's impossible, but it's not a "plan". You shouldn't base your future around the off-chance that that situation might possibly be happen for you. Hope is not a strategy.

I do agree with the second half of your post that schools charge ridiculous amounts because they can, and for various reasons. It's a racket and it's not right. But yes you're right, at some point we have to make practical choices. I did my best to do that for my education, taking some reasonably cost effective options for my degrees (relatively), and I'm still paying more than my car payment every month. Sure I could have taken the risk of going to a less prestigious university, but then the doors would not have opened for me that did. I would not have been able to network the way I have. So I don't think it's just about "the trophy child" (although that is really the parents' fault, and the KIDS are STILL getting screwed). There really is a demonstrable difference to employers, who are choosing between hundreds (thousands?) of applicants. Do you want to take the risk that the tiebreaker that costs you your dream job is because you went to community college and the other person you're going up against went to Harvard? Companies deal with so many applications, so many candidates, they don't "know" you, they don't have the time or resources to go out of their way to interview and get to know every candidate. They need to use the data they have, and which school you went to is a major data point when you are first entering the job force. And even if the best school you can get into is a "cheaper" option (relatively), cheaper than RIDICULOUS still isn't a guarantee that the cost is affordable or reasonable. Just because the alternative is WAY WORSE, doesn't mean the cheaper option still isn't going to cause some hardship after graduation.

But yes as you said, I respect your point of view and I appreciate the discussion. This is something I feel really strongly about so we may not agree, but I'm happy to read your point of view

 

[AggieSteel]

There is free schools out there, people just have to have the want to.

I really think you guys are severely underrating the way a degree and connections you make from your association with a reputable school opens doors for you in life. I went to a small school for undergrad and saw my degree as a piece of paper. When I went to a school with a big alumni base and major connections in my state for grad school, I realized the power of that has more than measurable value. Mentors, interviewers paving the way for me, references, people helping to put me in positions to succeed, helping me get interviews for jobs when I needed one, etc. I have countless examples just PERSONALLY of the power of my degree from a well-known institution. And there are thousands just like me all over the place getting the same benefits. It's just different.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Even if the issue isn’t cops kill more black men during arrest has been proven again and again not be true. They are just publicized way more by the media, because race baiting sells papers and increases internet traffic. I believe the relationship between the public and cops can always be improved no matter your skin color. But a start in improving that can be don’t raise your kids to hate co-s, raise them to respect them no matter your skin color.

If you go by a purely numbers standpoint, your assertion is true. More whites than blacks are killed by cops. Now, if you look at the fact that whites outnumber blacks by about 5 to 1 and look at the issue from a statistical probability standpoint, then you see that blacks are more likely than whites to be killed by police. This has been proven again and again to be true.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/do-police-kill-more-whites-than-black-people/

Hell, this isn't some badge of honor. "OOOH, my people get killed by police more than your people". How about we look at it like this: "We need to correct the problem of police killing civilians in the United States." If we approach the situation like that, then blacks, whites, latinos, asians ... all of us are included rather than excluded from those seeking protection from those officers who might be overzealous in their work.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Vox.com ?? Tim and some other guys have posted the FBI murder stats over and over. They don’t paint the same picture. But does it really matter what color the person is that ‘gets’s shot by a cop? A black life is no more important than a white life or vice versa..You may not care about the messenger and his approach but every single person that saw his pig socks did. If he has no more respect than that screw him. I hope he never gets a job in the NFL. Now if some of the other stars of the NFL want to meet with cops and go out in the neighborhoods and see what they deal with and vice versa what the young black males deal with, I’m all for it. But Kap is a piece of **** period.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

I agree with your sentiment Buckeye. But snopes is bullshit. But crime rates ate a lot higher in both the black community and Latino communities. And I do believe these are directly related to poverty. But if don’t have a job these days that’s on you they are tons out there. My employer in my area is the best paying and we are having a hard time getting people.

Also the dynamic needs to fixed where black families can raise there kids to respect cops and not fear them. This will only happen if both side make changes. I watch all those 48hr shows that are shot in tough inner cities. And everyone knows who did the killing but will not help because they hate cops. This is where we need to start. I hear and respect your opinions.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Vox.com ?? Tim and some other guys have posted the FBI murder stats over and over. They don’t paint the same picture. But does it really matter what color the person is that ‘gets’s shot by a cop? A black life is no more important than a white life or vice versa..You may not care about the messenger and his approach but every single person that saw his pig socks did. If he has no more respect than that screw him. I hope he never gets a job in the NFL. Now if some of the other stars of the NFL want to meet with cops and go out in the neighborhoods and see what they deal with and vice versa what the young black males deal with, I’m all for it. But Kap is a piece of **** period.

Look Snopes was only one of the references provided by a quick Google search. If you'd like, you can follow the links in the article to the articles posted in the Washington and New York newspapers that were written by authors who took the raw data and broke it down statistically. The FBI data provides raw numbers it does not do statistical analysis.

 

[AggieSteel]

Vox.com ?? Tim and some other guys have posted the FBI murder stats over and over. They don’t paint the same picture. But does it really matter what color the person is that ‘gets’s shot by a cop? A black life is no more important than a white life or vice versa..You may not care about the messenger and his approach but every single person that saw his pig socks did. If he has no more respect than that screw him. I hope he never gets a job in the NFL. Now if some of the other stars of the NFL want to meet with cops and go out in the neighborhoods and see what they deal with and vice versa what the young black males deal with, I’m all for it. But Kap is a piece of **** period.

Bro did you even read the first sentence in the link? "An analysis of the available FBI data by Vox's Dara Lind found that ......" they're looking at the FBI's data. Unless you're a data analyst yourself and looked at the same data? Ok yeah I didn't think so.

Edit: and I see you up there dismissing Snopes too. So every analysis that doesn't confirm your worldview is just a bullshit analysis then, eh? Come on man. Be better.

And nobody said a black life is more important than white life - although many believe the reverse of that is true. "Black lives matter" means "we want our lives to matter as much as everybody else's because right now they don't" .. it doesn't mean "matter more than everyone else's". If you believe that, someone lied to you, or you're interpreting it all wrong. Period. This conversation is simply not about that. So if you can adjust your perspective and not view it as if people are trying to compete over whose lives matter more, maybe you'll have a little more empathy for the movement. I don't think police should be killing ANY unarmed, non-threatening person. But since it happens disproportionately to black people and has for a long time, this is unfortunately a situation that is feared by THAT particular community far more than it is in any other community. They live their lives fearing it, and raise their children to fear it. Not out of hatred for police, but out of protection and survival. Although for many, unfortunately the hatred does grow from that.

And my point about Kaepernick remains. Hate the man all you want. I don't care how you feel about him personally. But when evaluating the issue of police brutality and the lack of accountability for untrained, cowardly, crooked or violent police, please separate the issue from the man. This has been an issue for millions of people across several decades of US history. Colin Kaepernick is not the only one who cares about this. It just really seems to me, between your insistence on dismissing the ENTIRE issue over Kaepernick alone, and misinterpreting factual data, you do not WANT to care about this issue. You are the exact person who need to hear the message that "Black lives matter".

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I agree with your sentiment Buckeye. But snopes is bullshit. But crime rates ate a lot higher in both the black community and Latino communities. And I do believe these are directly related to poverty. But if don’t have a job these days that’s on you they are tons out there. My employer in my area is the best paying and we are having a hard time getting people.

Also the dynamic needs to fixed where black families can raise there kids to respect cops and not fear them. This will only happen if both side make changes. I watch all those 48hr shows that are shot in tough inner cities. And everyone knows who did the killing but will not help because they hate cops. This is where we need to start. I hear and respect your opinions.

Man, we could get into a whole lot of socio-economic stuff in regards to the two-way distrust between police and civilians in the inner city. It's not just black or latino folks who distrust/dislike police in the inner city. Plenty of white folks too. I can't say that I have the answers to fix all the problems. Hell, I probably don't have the answers to 99.5% of the problems. I know I'm for instituting a requirement that EVERY capable citizen from the age of 18 - 25 spend at least 2 years of service in either the military or job corps. You want folks to respect this country more? There's a tendency to respect that which you've had a hand in either protecting or building.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Well folks, time for me to go eat before I do this work. I've appreciated the frank and honest discourse. We don't all have to agree on every aspect of every issue, but I do believe that honest talks help.