print them out and use them for you know what.......u won't have to buy TP for the rest of the season
Pro Football focus rates the Steelers
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print them out and use them for you know what.......u won't have to buy TP for the rest of the season
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You were already informed in another thread about PFF as nothing but a National Enquirer rag for analytics, whose part owner is Cris Collingsworth who works for the only network that is exclusive to their “rankings”.
Most informed fans don’t rely on one source, but several. But you aren’t a informed fan. Just one who ignores everything except what you want to hear/see.
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In general, I might agree that if PFF ranks the top 15-20, I would agree that 10 of those are top 10 and quibble with the specific rankings. Similar with bottom 15-20. This would be more true for positions with some specific measurable (i.e. QB, WR, RB). For DB's, OL or DL, im not so sure that kind of system fits. Unless, of course, you have top quality graders who actually DO know the right assignments and grades every play.
Suppose a DB does everything on the play perfectly, but it is a run play. How is that graded? Suppose he really screwed up and it was a run play, but how he screwed up had no effect on the play. How is that graded? How would you even know if he did everything perfect or ****** up? It wouldn't be fair to throw the play out if he did exactly what he was supposed to do, nor would it be right to not include a ****-up. Db play, you would expect, would be full of judgmental grading that could be vastly off. Ranking Sean Davis as the 58th best S in the league tells me, without a doubt, there is something wrong with their grading system. If they had him in the top 32, I'd argue much less if he was below #20. But at 58th? Ridiculous.
Similar for an OL who lets a guy go by and the D gets a sack. Was it a screw up by THAT OL or was the call that he had a different assignment and someone else was supposed to block the guy that got through?
I'd say PDs and tackles for losses are splash plays, especially when they stop TDs from happening.
And no one likes Mitchell...
If course they are going to rate him higher now that they know his name. Though 52 is about where he should have been before last week. He is now a top 25 WR.
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AMAZing as he is the YOUNGEST player in the NFL but also a true rookie............and is or near top 25 WR. How can you not be impressed with this kid............!!!!
Salute the nation
I love everything he does DIC:
Excellent hand placement
Great blocker and an asset to the Running game
Doesn't complain, and takes running plays as seriously as passing plays
Looks to make a hit in the passing game when he doesn't get targeted
Runs routes hard on every play
Loves the game, and has an infectious enthusiasm, and has become the team's favorite 'little brother'.
Fun EZ celebrations, that bring the fun back to football games for spectators.
Doesn't complain, or throw teammates under the bus, even when he's attacked on social media.
Physically tough and Mentally tough.
Will make plays and try hard to tackle defenders on turnovers.
Kick return could use some improvement
Though I will honestly say, Bryant has stepped up his blocking game, even before he was benched. I think it was due to JuJu showing what he could do in the running game, and pushing Bryant to be better there as well, so he doesn't lose snaps to JuJu. If these 2 start pushing each other and creating a camaraderie, and both start being successful and supportive of each other, this offense will be dangerous.
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About time is my reply. But the PF foul and being ripped for yardage takes something away. Hey Lee Flowers had some good games too, and for the record, I think Davis is better than him.
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What impress me most about Ju-Ju is his ability to run after the catch. He's very strong and hard to tackle. Maybe our best RAC guy on the team.
With Ju-Ju emerging, Bryant should have less attention drawn his way. We need Bryant. When focused he's a game changer. Just imagine what the offense would look like with a 2014 or 2015 Bryant.
About time how about this one. Playoff game to secure the win
Being teh grading system you have access to and can see, doesnt make the assessments correct
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Thank you. We have a conversation here. I appreciate that.
Maybe we should hold off on saying the rating sucks without understanding how they formulate the data. I do not think Davis is very good. But 58th best? A little harsh. But the counter point is with our pass rush and coverage LB's, Davis should be playing a little better.
I don't have their formula but I'd imagine a DB is graded vs. the run as to where he engages the ball carrier. Does he stop him, or allow the runner to get extra yardage with the tackle? Is it a missed tackle? Does he let the player run by him? Was a flag thrown for an illegal hit, say like the one Davis had last Sunday night? Did the play lead to a score?
Bonus points awarded for forced fumbles. So +'s and --'s
vs the pass, how often does the DB's allow a catch in zone or man? How much yardage surrendered? How often did a first down happen when the DB was the closest man to the action? How often does he get a sack, force a fumble or get an interception? A high amount of tackles with a low amount of splash plays to me indicates a player that allows his guy get open, then tackles him after yardage surrendered. A high amount of tackles often indicated a team is targeting him in zone or man.
Not so far back, we had Blake and he set the record for a cornerback with yardage given up! Could not stand that guy,
Many here think Ben is not having a good season by his standards I agree, but I think he's had some bad luck. Pro Football Focus sees him outside the top ten, rated currently at #14, which I think is about right. With a bit better luck, he'd rate higher.
They have Brown #1 overall.
So the system has a consistency to it. Maybe they are right about Sean Davis. One thing I find interesting is Pouncey who to be can be more sizzle than substance, and was easily replaced by two different journeyman is rated #9th. I think Pouncey is good, but over rated by those who see him as a top 3 center. . So do they. He's just not a top in line run blocker. I think Gilbert is our best OL player, followed by DeCastro.
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Or this one vs the Ravens last year? How big was this jack ***
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Or this one vs the Ravens last year? How big was this jack ***
Off set by two dropped interceptions even you could have caught ( the jets one was the worst dropped INT's ) a dumb penalty in the Dallas game which directly lead to the defeat, Jack ***. Remember those?
Just imagine if I had those videos for a moment... Don't think posting one good play changes the conversation in a marco sense. If you play enough games in the NFL, you'll make some plays. Even cornerback Blake did, see the point? Would me posting a video of one good play by Blake he's a good player? Only in a small mind.
Davis had but 5 PD's last year, very low for a starting DB. You showed us one of them. So instead of beating your chest about one play, I'm wondering why he doesn't have more of them.
More interesting to me is Davis has just 1 career interception in 24 games played. Why? I'd imagine 90% of DB's played the same amount of snaps have more. And they said Ike Taylor had bad hands....
I have said before I view Davis as maybe the 10th best starter on defense. Funny NFL data on lack of splash plays and 3rd party data that grades players agrees with me!
When the data starts agreeing with you, then you might have something because it means he'll be more of a factor
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I agree with your post Coach, except for Pouncey. He was not replaced by journeymen, he had journeymen hold his position. None could pull, get to the second level, or be sackless in a season. Nor did they call the line blocking assignments as well as Pouncey. Nor were they perfect at not botching a snap.
I pay a lot of attention to the centers, as do the Rooneys. They are a skill position lineman that touch the ball every play. There's a reason why the Rooneys pay and acquire the best centers in the game. Strength up the middle, spreads down the line.
Lowest I would place Pouncey is #3, and I could argue for a #1 slotting quite easily.
I pay a lot of attention to the centers, as do the Rooneys. They are a skill position lineman that touch the ball every play. There's a reason why the Rooneys pay and acquire the best centers in the game. Strength up the middle, spreads down the line.
Lowest I would place Pouncey is #3, and I could argue for a #1 slotting quite easily.
I think you're also forgetting the TD saving strip he had on Kelce 3 weeks ago.
I remember when we were playing the rams in 2003, Polamalu jumps the pass on the sideline, and it goes through his arms to a surprised receiver that runs for a TD. You were probably harsh on Pola for that one as well.
Good thing is, he improved, as Davis is also doing.
I remember when we were playing the rams in 2003, Polamalu jumps the pass on the sideline, and it goes through his arms to a surprised receiver that runs for a TD. You were probably harsh on Pola for that one as well.
Good thing is, he improved, as Davis is also doing.
Off set by two dropped interceptions even you could have caught ( the jets one was the worst dropped INT's ) a dumb penalty in the Dallas game which directly lead to the defeat, Jack ***. Remember those?
Just imagine if I had those videos for a moment... Don't think posting one good play changes the conversation in a marco sense. If you play enough games in the NFL, you'll make some plays. Even Jeff Blake did, see the point? Would me posting a video of one good play by him indicate he's a good player? Only in a small mind.
Davis had but 5 PD's last year, very low for a starting DB. You showed us one of them. So instead of beating your chest about one play, I'm wondering why he doesn't have more of them.
More interesting to me is Davis has just 1 career interception in 24 games played. Why? I'd imagine 90% of those who start have more. And they said Ike Taylor had bad hands....
I have said before I view Davis as maybe the 10th best starter on defense. Funny NFL data on lack of splash plays and 3rd party data that grades players agrees with me.
When the data starts agreeing with you, then you might have something.
You are comparing a dropped interception on the Jets game to this play?? A penalty in the dallas game you are holding on to. That play right there was huge. Without it there are no Antonio Brown heriocs. Same as the Play vs Kansas City. We may not go to New England if they get that two point conversion. Pass defensed for a starting DB or Safety. Whats the pass defensed number for Safeties. And doesnt how we use him factor into that. Hes around the line alot.
He didnt see that.. but he heard about the penalty last sunday that anyone watching would call iffy at best
Landon Collins 13
Eric Weddle 13
Reggie Nelson 12
Jimmy ward 12
Ron Parker 12
Bradley Mcdougald 10
Earl Thomas 10
Byron Jones 10
Mike Mitchell and 9 others with 9
Keanu neal(rookie) and 4 others including Kam Chamcellor with 8
Devin McCourty and 6 others with 7
Karl Joseph(rookie) and 7 others with 6
Sean Davis and 17 others inclucing Eric Reid and Ladarious Webb with 5
Thats all Safeties
Eric Weddle 13
Reggie Nelson 12
Jimmy ward 12
Ron Parker 12
Bradley Mcdougald 10
Earl Thomas 10
Byron Jones 10
Mike Mitchell and 9 others with 9
Keanu neal(rookie) and 4 others including Kam Chamcellor with 8
Devin McCourty and 6 others with 7
Karl Joseph(rookie) and 7 others with 6
Sean Davis and 17 others inclucing Eric Reid and Ladarious Webb with 5
Thats all Safeties
Or this one vs the Ravens last year? How big was this jack ***
Coach whistles past the grave yard,,, as ark throws bread crumbs..
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I'm not intending, necessarily, to say their ratings system sucks. I am dubious. But any ratings system ought to be able to be duplicated. When I don't have the data (or know how the data is determined or have any way to place trust in the data), I am less likely to trust the results from the data. you would expect a rating system that gives a +/- to every play ought to provide you with a reasonable result. However, the rating system ought not rely on a small group to determine the rating or without discussion of the rating for each play. That would be a monumental task to have 2-3 people watch one person (you could have them watch one O and one D person to lower the number needed), get together to discuss each play and argue about the rating and produce a rating for each play, then the game for that player. it wouldn't be that hard to get the number of people needed, but you need them to be somewhat qualified to have made the rating in the first place. That makes it harder, IMO.
You might even rate a player on a specific purpose (run versus pass), too, which I think they intend.
Finally, whatever rating you come up with ought to fit the eye-test. If a player is a 3 or 4 places off, not so much a big deal. If the player is 20+ off, that signals, to me, that there is an problem somewhere. I simply cannot imagine that a system that ranks Davis as the 58th best S isn't flawed. Put him at 30 and I might quibble, but 58 is silly, IMO.
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You yourself can’t even explain the grading process that PFF uses. Which is why you are infatuated with it. You can’t explain it, but you agree with it.
I’ll repost the article about PFF since you seem to be ignoring my posts (which is fine, IDC) but you seem to ignore the professional masses in regard how that site actually grades players....but just keep pimping subjective sources of information.
Quote Originally Posted by Coach:
“Wanna use 3rd party data? Okay Ike, there are 64 starting safeties in the NFL. Pro Football focus has Davis at # 58 among safeties.”
My reply to your 3rd party data:
Its been renowned that its (PFF) analytics process is purely subjective in assessment of the raw numbers. Excerpt from a Boston Herald article a few years ago regarding the emergence of PFF and the legitimacy of their facts:
" ...this is not taking actual numbers and using them to come up with new stats to use in analytics. This is not taking passes complete and passes attempted and breaking it down into the various lengths of throws and spots on the field. This is sitting down in front of the monitor, forming an opinion and making up their own stats and advanced formulas based on stats garnered from what they think is happening on each play."
The full article.... https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/0...indly-trusted/
I encourage you to read it. But I know you won’t. Your ego prevents you. So other posters read the article and come to your own reasoning. Football Outsiders does a good job of giving objective statistics via their DVOA and DYAR formulas for defense and a ton of offensive formulas as well. All going back to 1986.
Yeah they are partnered with ESPN, but they are independent with their published works.
PFF is not, and not staffed by football experts.
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As stated early in the thread this is just based on our 8 games to date. That's it. In a bubble.
Has nothing to do with what they looked like last year. What they looked like in college. Where they were drafted. Or even projecting them out to what they will do next week.
Ben and Bell haven't looked all that great in those 8 games (consistently). I mean, if you resurrected Bill Walsh from the grave and told him to rate Roethlisberger only on the 8 games this year, who the hell knows what he would say. The guy has played with cement in his shoes practically. Accuracy has been all over the place. Too many turnovers.
So while these ratings are very useful to me, it is only a snap shot in time. Not a career and not a projection.
Has nothing to do with what they looked like last year. What they looked like in college. Where they were drafted. Or even projecting them out to what they will do next week.
Ben and Bell haven't looked all that great in those 8 games (consistently). I mean, if you resurrected Bill Walsh from the grave and told him to rate Roethlisberger only on the 8 games this year, who the hell knows what he would say. The guy has played with cement in his shoes practically. Accuracy has been all over the place. Too many turnovers.
So while these ratings are very useful to me, it is only a snap shot in time. Not a career and not a projection.
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