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Red Zone blues. Tell me why.

Coryea said:
Bell's one weakness is he's not a good short yardage back because he hesitates every time, that's why Watson has gotten several short yardage carries over Bell. I still think our OLine is more finesse than power, lining up our bigs vs their bigs, we seem to struggle there

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BINGO! On the goal line you have to hit the hole quickly as the traffic is bunched up and wide. Hesitation here is a killer.

Nix needs to play more, and I would be okay with Conner running it, as he looks to be a better power runner, and Bell used as a WR in the Red Zone.

You don't see many full house / T formation backfields these days, but I honestly think it could work. Nix blocks, let the defense guess who runs it, and Bell can also catch it or run a pattern. Let's see an opposing defense try to stop this! take out James, put in McDonald. and allow Ju-Ju- or Bryant to block the corner. AB works well on quick slants for Ben's first pass read.

Another red zone problem in my opinion is we do not have ANY speed backs to run wide and beat a defender to the edge.
 
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antdrewjosh said:
I myself think this is a false narrative. Would love to see some stats on this. He is patient he does hesitate but he gets the yardage.
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I agree, but the downs when we line up in a jumbo package and the D knows we are running and they have their goal line D in, you can't hesitate there.
Why else would Tomlin pull him for Watson.

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Coryea said:
I agree, but the downs when we line up in a jumbo package and the D knows we are running and they have their goal line D in, you can't hesitate there.
Why else would Tomlin pull him for Watson.

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I dont have a problem with the switch. Watson maybe the best at it. He also jumped Connors in this situation. Who doesnt hesitate
 
It's a combo of everything mentioned but a couple things more than the rest.

Empty back or shotgun sets from goal to go situations after we ran it down a teams throat the whole way down the field really irritates the hell out of me. For God sakes if there's any time to do play action, it would be then...at least LOOK like you may run the ball.

I also think Ben's lack of mobility is playing a big part. Gone are the days of him scrambling around, rolling out, shrugging off defenders and hitting a wide open guy in the end zone. Yes he's not taking nearly as much of a beating anymore but he's had to change how he's played his whole life. It's no longer backyard Ben. Reading the D and knowing where to go in a short amount of time is most important in the redzone and you can see him struggling with that. I think that's where play action and not being so predictable in red zone play calling would help address this weakness in Ben.

For me it's play calling and an aging Ben as 1a and 1b.
 
ark steel said:
Then why was it ~60% for two straight years? How is 60% a "problem"?
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Don't care about percent. Since 2008, we've cracked the top 10 once and that was at number 10. You have a franchise QB and typically have had a good running game. If you, as a coach, can't figure out what works with the consistently good personnel we've had, then you are definitely the problem.
 
Coach said:
Going by league ranking for RZ %...


2017: 30th so far our of 32 teams

2016: 16th

What exactly is the problem? I have two points to me made, but I'd like to see others comment first.
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Robert Golden is not throwing enough when we are in the red zone.
 
nitsuj1225 said:
It's a combo of everything mentioned but a couple things more than the rest.

Empty back or shotgun sets from goal to go situations after we ran it down a teams throat the whole way down the field really irritates the hell out of me. For God sakes if there's any time to do play action, it would be then...at least LOOK like you may run the ball.

I also think Ben's lack of mobility is playing a big part. Gone are the days of him scrambling around, rolling out, shrugging off defenders and hitting a wide open guy in the end zone. Yes he's not taking nearly as much of a beating anymore but he's had to change how he's played his whole life. It's no longer backyard Ben. Reading the D and knowing where to go in a short amount of time is most important in the redzone and you can see him struggling with that. I think that's where play action and not being so predictable in red zone play calling would help address this weakness in Ben.

For me it's play calling and an aging Ben as 1a and 1b.
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I am with ya man!.

Except on the order on 1a and 1b..

I would reverse that...
 
TDX27 said:
Don't care about percent. Since 2008, we've cracked the top 10 once and that was at number 10. You have a franchise QB and typically have had a good running game. If you, as a coach, can't figure out what works with the consistently good personnel we've had, then you are definitely the problem.
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Success rate is the whole point. Cheese and Rice. If you are at 90% and 9 other teams are at 90.1%, you are 10th in the league. Ranking might be more important if the difference between 16 and 10 was 10% success, but it ain't, usually. When you see the bestest ever are only 10% more likely to score (so far this year) than this **** flinging monkeys we have, it ought to make you think.

The last two years, the success rate declined by 1.53%, yet it dropped the ranking 6 places. That "average" ranking got us into the AFCCG while the top-ten ranking didn't. Right now, the difference between 15th (53.33%) and 9th 57.14% is less than 4% success rate. Less than half the sample sized (presumably) than last year, isn't great for comparisons. GB is smoking everyone at 73%+ in the RZ. How do you think that changes with Rogers out? They averaged 27+ ppg for the first five games. Less than 15 for the last two. Dallas is at 2/3rds RZ% and is 3-3.
 
Oh no!! We can't score in the redzone!! We'll never score again, let alone improve this season.

WE'RE DOOMED!!!
 
south dakota STEEL said:
yes it was. Ben has always been slow in that area. Not saying it's a terrible thing, just saying it's been that way for awhile...imo
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Always? Ben was pretty good in the red zone under Arians. There was a thread on it a while back.
 
Coach said:
Always? Ben was pretty good in the red zone under Arians. There was a thread on it a while back.
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Well, there are stats in this very thread that show several sub50% RZ% years about the time that Arians was here. 2007 was the best at 58%, then declined for several years. 2012 saw an increase, with a couple years of decreases then almost 60%...what happened in 2012?
 
Empty set is def a problem. We shouldn’t be doing that, period.

However, if you don’t think Ben is an issue in the RZ, you’re not paying attention. The beef when Arians was here was that we couldn’t score points. It’s the same story now. With Ben at QB, we’ve always been better at moving the ball than scoring points. It’s just reality. I don’t even think it’s a matter of opinion at this point. We’ve had 14 seasons of sample size to see that Ben isn’t the best QB at getting it in the end zone


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They may be better off with Brown not in, if Brown goes straight out he has no chance with his size. Seems we leave the fullback on the sidelines and bring in two TE that hasn't helped the run game in the red zone. Ben as others teams do, never rolls out, we seem to have the same set every play. Sure needs to improve.
 
Those red zone% aren't just passing, that includes our inability to get it in running the ball as well.

A couple simple things would help.
-Never ever go empty set.

-I'd rather use a FB instead of an extra TE. When you're at the goal line and line up to run it, and the D has their run stoppers in, there's more of a chance down there for penetration by the D in those areas, so give me a FB that can pick that guy off.

-Never have AB run those stupid out and ups at the goal line like we did the past two weeks, he's not big enough to run those. He should be running drags, slants, crosses, curls.

-stay away from trying to run Bell wide, he's not fast enough to get the corner with the field compressed.

-Dont be afraid to go spread O and run Bell from that formation, the D will be forced to spread out and Bell runs well from that formation and the OLine blocks well too.

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For starters catch the ball when it hits you in the hands. I've lost track of how many TD passes have been dropped this year. As has been stated before, get rid of the empty sets inside the 10 and a little creativity in the play calling would be nice. (I swear half of the playbook is throw the ball up and hope AB makes a play.)

Oh and get rid of Ben. 2 SB rings, no losing seasons and pretty much every franchise passing record; clearly he can't read a defense or throw a timing route.
 
Cope said:
Oh no!! We can't score in the redzone!! We'll never score again, let alone improve this season.

WE'RE DOOMED!!!
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TRY to put a little more passion into this..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe an arm flail or possibly a knee (not durring the anthem).




Salute the nation
 
Coryea said:
-stay away from trying to run Bell wide, he's not fast enough to get the corner with the field compressed.
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While I think this is, technically, not true as I believe he is plenty fast enough for this as long as people don't completely **** up their blocks. This is where practicality comes in where you can, pretty much, count on one person to completely **** up their block on this play. Half-assed blocking, probably, a score.
 
ark steel said:
While I think this is, technically, not true as I believe he is plenty fast enough for this as long as people don't completely **** up their blocks. This is where practicality comes in where you can, pretty much, count on one person to completely **** up their block on this play. Half-assed blocking, probably, a score.
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Yeah, with the field compressed, you're probably going to have someone sneak through. There's probably a better chance at losing yards there than gaining.

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SteelerInLebanon said:
Playaction, Bootlegs,Tight end routes all from an I formation to make them at least try to defend the middle opening up the outside. Make them think.
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You'd figure Haley would do this more often. Why he limits what can he done and makes it a bit easier to for the other offense to predict is a reason why we score less points.
 
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