What's up with Bud?

[Coach]

Ike,

If the test is worthless in your mind, then why does the NFL offer it to people applying for the draft. Please tell me that?

There is some value obviously and you don't need a 40 on your WCAT to deduce that.

I've never seen a study on it, but I suspect the low scores types tend to be underachievers on the field.

 

[kev4heels]

He struggles quite a bit when he goes against a tackle, which is mystifying to me. Dude is 270 lbs., which is massive for an OLB. He should be much better at stuffing an OT in the run game, and in using his strength and quickness to pressure the passer, particularly when going against a RT. However, it seems most of his production comes when he is lined up against a RB or TE.

Seems like he just tries to bull rush 90% of the time.

 

[antdrewjosh]

https://www.si.com/nfl/photos/2013/02/25memorable-wonderlic-scores#1

Here is a list. Some high scores for players who never did anything some low scores for guys who had long careers. Some high scores for players who were great. Some low scores for players who sucked. So nothing conclusive either way.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike,

If the test is worthless in your mind, then why does the NFL offer it to people applying for the draft. Please tell me that?

There is some value obviously and you don't need a 40 on you WCAT to deduce that.

I've never seen a study on it, but I suspect the low scores types tend to be underachievers on the field.

Dear Lord, reading comprehension on the decline with you?

Where in my post did I imply the test was worthless? I said it wasn’t a measurement of football intelligence. Something you insisted was a culprit to Dupree’s lackluster start. It’s a measurement of a person’s cognitive ability for problem solving and learning aptitude.

Teams use the information from the Wonderlic for the purpose of just that. Does this kid have the aptitude to learn quickly under multiple disciplines. Whether grasping the playbook, or understanding new concepts in material or evaluations. In the total assessment of a player, the Wonderlic isn’t a primary consideration. It has it uses, but no where near the telling of whether the organization decides if the individual is a football player worth investing in.

You can suspect the Wonderlic score/player washout scenario all you want....but until you supply the data to prove it, it’s just hearsay. I will tell you this though. A players injury history has more consideration than his wonderlic score.


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[Coach]

I said it wasn’t a measurement of football intelligence. Something you insisted was a culprit to Dupree’s lackluster start. It’s a measurement of a person’s cognitive ability for problem solving and learning aptitude.

Teams use the information from the Wonderlic for the purpose of just that. Does this kid have the aptitude to learn quickly under multiple disciplines. Whether grasping the playbook, or understanding new concepts in material or evaluations.]

You are saying two different things.

1 ) It's not a measurement of football intelligence.

2 ) Then you say does he has the aptitude for grasping the playbook or understanding new concepts.

I would say your second point DOES have something to do with football intelligence. IE: the Playbook, and Concepts.

So you are mistaken and conflicted. Some guys just don't get it.

 

[Coach]

https://www.si.com/nfl/photos/2013/02/25memorable-wonderlic-scores#1

Here is a list. Some high scores for players who never did anything some low scores for guys who had long careers. Some high scores for players who were great. Some low scores for players who sucked. So nothing conclusive either way.

I don't think it matters much for a running back or kicker.

On the high score players that did not pan out, it wasn't lack of football smarts that made average to poor. It was lack of ability.

By contrast you can get a Jeff George or Vince Young type, who had top level ability, but scored poorly and never had good success.

The NFL scouts have said teams doesn't like to pick a QB below a certain wonderlic score, I believe the number was 17.

When you pull a 13, It matters for some positons. Looking a Dupree, he doesn't seem very smart or aware on the field. A fluke or coincidence?

If you hear Bud talk, he won't impress anyone.

 

[Steelworth]

The NFL scouts have said teams doesn't like to pick a QB below a certain wonderlic score, I believe the number was 17.

With that line of thinking Jim Kelly, Dan Marino & Terry Bradshaw would not have had a chance to go have Hall of Fame careers.

 

[wig]

I haven't looked to carefully, but at first glance, Dupree seems "tall and skinny" to me. That would suggest, despite his size and weight, that he doesn't have the legs to bull rush and push a tackle every down.

If he's not using his speed and some good finesse moves, he's likely going to struggle to make plays (Again, my novice opinion at first glance.) However, in coverage or coming off the edge with a spin, or a good swim he could be spectacular.

Harrison on the other hand is build like a tank in the legs. He's literally strong enough that if he gets under a tackle, it's over. He can just carry them right to the QB. That's why they have to rope him around the neck and ride him outside. He's too strong down low to really block him clean.

But, I admit - I'm no expert. I just play one on Sundays in front of my television.

 

[Stryker]

I'm pretty sure Burfict ate his Wonderlic test. It didn't stop him from being a top performing inside linebacker in his first year.

Wonderlic, to me is more of a gauge to how quickly someone can pick something up. Since it's a general knowledge test, it will skew higher for kids in better schools (High and college) than it will for those who went to poor schools, and take 'football class' in college.

 

[Ike Kelly]

You are saying two different things.

1 ) It's not a measurement of football intelligence.

2 ) Then you say does he has the aptitude for grasping the playbook or understanding new concepts.

I would say your second point DOES have something to do with football intelligence. IE: the Playbook, and Concepts.

So you are mistaken and conflicted. Some guys just don't get it.

No genius, you apparently can’t separate the difference between aptitude and application.

Just because you may have the aptitude to be a engineer because you are a genius in mathematics, doesn’t necessarily mean you can. If you are unable to handle time or priority management, research or analysis solution finding you may not be able to apply that genius level aptitude to perform the role.

The only mistake there is, thinking you can carry a conversation without using your “everyone is wrong I’m right” response when the discussion goes way over your understanding. It’s actually not surprising, you exhibit classic narcissistic tendencies. So the best analogy is...you can discuss in a forum about football, but you can’t converse an understanding of the subject.

Please just keep amusing the board with your self brilliance. Makes the week go by.


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[tapeANaspirin2it]

Dupree was a raw prospect who got almost no coaching in college. It was known he’d be a bit of a project. He has not played that many games so it’s not surprising that he struggles against the run. That is something he has to learn with reps and he has missed lots of preseason so he’s learning on the job.

what concerns me is that when he has pass rush opportunities, he’s not doing much with them. Watt is in a similar boat but the difference is, every so often Watt does show that great pass rush that makes you think he’ll be a beast once he learns more. I wish there were more moments when Dupree just blew past an OT and got a sack or at least a pressure. There have been few.

if Dupree doesn’t step it up this season then next year you have to have OLB high on the list again. That is why i hated the James Conner pick so much. There were still quality pass rushers on the board and i felt the steelers should have grabbed 2 with high picks.

 

[Coach]

With that line of thinking Jim Kelly, Dan Marino & Terry Bradshaw would not have had a chance to go have Hall of Fame careers.

That was then and this is now, but if you are an all world talent, like these guys, or Randy Moss, okay a low score works!

 

[kev4heels]

getting teams in predictable throwing downs will help Bud immensely.

 

[Coach]

Dupree was a raw prospect who got almost no coaching in college. It was known he’d be a bit of a project. He has not played that many games so it’s not surprising that he struggles against the run. That is something he has to learn with reps and he has missed lots of preseason so he’s learning on the job.

what concerns me is that when he has pass rush opportunities, he’s not doing much with them. Watt is in a similar boat but the difference is, every so often Watt does show that great pass rush that makes you think he’ll be a beast once he learns more. I wish there were more moments when Dupree just blew past an OT and got a sack or at least a pressure. There have been few.

if Dupree doesn’t step it up this season then next year you have to have OLB high on the list again. That is why i hated the James Conner pick so much. There were still quality pass rushers on the board and i felt the steelers should have grabbed 2 with high picks.

I must admit I wasn't too high on the Conner pick, but now that I've seen him play, I like him. He's a little quicker than I thought. Dept at RB has been an issue over the years with Bell's injuries and suspensions.

I wonder what a full game with look like with Conner starting. We have the right mix of players for power football, so I think he would do well running the ball, but we would miss something with Bell catching it.

As for replacing Bud with a high draft pick, not in round one, two or three. Bud isn't a bad starter, and Chickillo is all right if needed.

As of right now the 2018 top needs for the draft are

1 ) We need a Qb for the future.
2 ) We can use an upgrade at TE, though McDonald intrigues me
3 ) A better 3rd tackle is a need. Rounds 3-4 seem fine for this.

All three to me are higher priorities than replacing Dupree.

 

[Coach]

No genius, you apparently can’t separate the difference between aptitude and application.

Just because you may have the aptitude to be a engineer because you are a genius in mathematics, doesn’t necessarily mean you can. If you are unable to handle time or priority management, research or analysis solution finding you may not be able to apply that genius level aptitude to perform the role.

The only mistake there is, thinking you can carry a conversation without using your “everyone is wrong I’m right” response when the discussion goes way over your understanding. It’s actually not surprising, you exhibit classic narcissistic tendencies. So the best analogy is...you can discuss in a forum about football, but you can’t converse an understanding of the subject.

Please just keep amusing the board with your self brilliance. Makes the week go by.


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And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't have smack his rear end while jumping. Keep trying to go off tangent and make it look like your making sense.

I think you are making a fool of yourself, as the NFL thinks the test is important. I can show you many cases where a low score = a low football IQ, but the inverse seldom true.

But hey if you want to defend a guy who according to to the web scored a 13 that has not shown the aptitude in the football IQ / awareness in his 3rd season, have at it and start a new thread on the topic. We both know you won't go there.

 

[stillwright]

And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't have smack his rear end while jumping. Keep trying to go off tangent and make it look like your making sense.

I think you are making a fool of yourself, as the NFL thinks the test is important. I can show you many cases where a low score = a low football IQ, but the inverse seldom true.

But hey if you want to defend a guy who according to to the web scored a 13 that has not shown the aptitude in the football IQ / awareness in his 3rd season, have at it and start a new thread on the topic. We both know you won't go there.

If the test was that important to team why do players get drafted in the first round by them? I mean if what you have been saying is true then these players should drop into the later rounds I would think. Why do you think teams are still drafting them very high? Thanks for your input Coach.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Sorry---not seeing that at the moment Punxy..

He needs to get to the QB more often for me to think of Gildon when he plays..

To me, Gildon was a speed rusher who lacked moves and was basically useless against the run and coverage.

That's what I see in Dupree.

He has talent, but he is more a complementary player than "the man" as a pass rusher, as was Gildon

Gildon's production wasn't that great at all when he didn't have Chad Brown or Joey Porter across from him for offenses to focus on.

 

[Litos]

As others said dupree came out of college raw as a fish, he is been battling injuries through his short career that probably has affected his learning curve. He still is pretty young and still has a high ceiling so I expect him to make the jump sooner than later

 

[Ike Kelly]

That was then and this is now, but if you are an all world talent, like these guys, or Randy Moss, okay a low score works!

That was then, this is now? Are you freaking serious? That’s your reply?

What difference does it make from the 70s to current. It’s the same test. It’s used for the same purpose. If they had poor scores then why were they so successful? Why where they still highly coveted?

It reinforces that it is a not a measurement of an individual’s football intelligence, but rather provides data for his workplace assessment within an organization. Not SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of sports player evaluation.

And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't have smack his rear end while jumping. Keep trying to go off tangent and make it look like your making sense.

I think you are making a fool of yourself, as the NFL thinks the test is important. I can show you many cases where a low score = a low football IQ, but the inverse seldom true.

But hey if you want to defend a guy who according to to the web scored a 13 that has not shown the aptitude in the football IQ / awareness in his 3rd season, have at it and start a new thread on the topic. We both know you won't go there.

Who’s going off tangent? Im just pointing out how ridiculous your reasoning is....and it’s becoming routine. Where am I defending Shamarko Thomas in all this? All I said was he wasn’t on the team because he hasn’t produced, and that was mainly for injuries.

You live in this dreamworld of believing what you think a person states, when you ignore what’s actually stated written right in front of you.

The only thing I would consider fooling myself now is whether you are actually not, clinically an idiot. Because you are giving superb examples that you are. Quote anywhere where I posted the NFL doesn’t think the wonderlic isn’t important. You won’t because you can’t. You just fantasize what you want to believe.

You keep stating the Wonderlic score (low score = a low football IQ), even though the test was created back in the 30’s as a form of psychometric assessment to measure a person’s general intelligence (something it appears you lack significantly), not for football player IQ determinations. It was used by employers in all professions for over 40 years before the entire NFL caught on.

Stillwright explained it too. If these low wonderlic scoring players are to be failures at football, and the test is a large part of their future success in an organization why do organizations still draft them in 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounds?

You are the personification of a troll on this board, and I’m feeding it. But hey, that’s fine. There’s plenty of dog chow around here for everyone to feed you.


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[Litos]

That was then, this is now? Are you freaking serious? That’s your reply?

What difference does it make from the 70s to current. It’s the same test. It’s used for the same purpose. If they had poor scores then why were they so successful? Why where they still highly coveted?

It reinforces that it is a not a measurement of an individual’s football intelligence, but rather provides data for his workplace assessment within an organization. Not SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of sports player evaluation.

Who’s going off tangent? Im just pointing out how ridiculous your reasoning is....and it’s becoming routine. Where am I defending Shamarko Thomas in all this? All I said was he wasn’t on the team because he hasn’t produced, and that was mainly for injuries.

You live in this dreamworld of believing what you think a person states, when you ignore what’s actually stated written right in front of you.

The only thing I would consider fooling myself now is whether you are actually not, clinically an idiot. Because you are giving superb examples that you are. Quote anywhere where I posted the NFL doesn’t think the wonderlic isn’t important. You won’t because you can’t. You just fantasize what you want to believe.

You keep stating the Wonderlic score (low score = a low football IQ), even though the test was created back in the 30’s as a form of psychometric assessment to measure a person’s general intelligence (something it appears you lack significantly), not for football player IQ determinations. It was used by employers in all professions for over 40 years before the entire NFL caught on.

Stillwright explained it too. If these low wonderlic scoring players are to be failures at football, and the test is a large part of their future success in an organization why do organizations still draft them in 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounds?

You are the personification of a troll on this board, and I’m feeding it. But hey, that’s fine. There’s plenty of dog chow around here for everyone to feed you.


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Is there a professional "clinically idiot" diagnosis? just curious LOL

 

[antdrewjosh]

Total Pressures

Dupree: 10.5
Watt: 7
Harrison: 3
Chickillo: 4

Snaps Per Pressure

Harrison: 4.3
Watt: 11
Dupree: 11.2
Chickillo: 21

– Coverage/drop percentages

Watt: 45.8%
Harrison: 31.6%
Chickillo: 27%
Dupree: 26.1%

 

[Drink IRON City]

Total Pressures

Dupree: 10.5
Watt: 7
Harrison: 3
Chickillo: 4

Snaps Per Pressure

HARRISON: 4.3
Watt: 11
Dupree: 11.2
Chickillo: 21

– Coverage/drop percentages

Watt: 45.8%
Harrison: 31.6%
Chickillo: 27%
Dupree: 26.1%

39years old and still showing up the boys............. No wonder he is an all time favorite and a BEAST




Salute the nation

 

[antdrewjosh]

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2017/10/bud-duprees-athleticism-shines-late/

Bud Dupree’s Athleticism Shines Through Late


BY MATTHEW MARCZI OCTOBER 23, 2017 AT 12:00 PM



The Pittsburgh Steelers really need their two young outside linebackers to become a key part of the heart and soul of their defense. After all, they have used first-round draft picks on the pair over the course of the past three drafts. They need to be the primary pass-rushers for the unit in order for them to be at their best.

And so far, overall, they are doing a solid job. Rookie T.J. Watt has been a bit more productive than has third-year Bud Dupree, but both of been showing capably, even if they have been at times falsely accused of some errors in run support that were really on the secondary failing in crack-and-replace.

One would hope that we are seeing them start to heat up as we approach the midway point of the season. The two of them yesterday combined for nine tackles and a pair of sacks, each of them with a quarterback takedown, though Dupree nearly had two.

The 2015 first-rounder landed some impact plays for the defense in key moments. When the offense failed to get into the end zone toward the end of the first half, he assisted on a tackle for loss on second down that helped the Steelers get the ball back before halftime and add another field goal.

In the second half, relatively early in the fourth quarter just after the offense failed to move the ball past its own 13-yard line, going three and out in the process, the Bengals after a punt starting their next drive on Pittsburgh’s side of the field at the 45-yard line.




But on first down, he was able to get into the backfield, pressuring quarterback Andy Dalton, and while he did not get the sack himself, he helped to set up the rest of the defense to make a play, with the recipient of the eventual sack being Tyson Alualu, which was his first as a Steeler.

That sack went for a loss of 11 yards, and two plays later, Dupree finally got his, looking like he was shot out of a cannon as he hunted Dalton down behind the line of scrimmage. He pounced on the Bengals quarterback and pulled him down for a big loss of 13 yards.

That drive did not simply stifle the Bengals’ offense as they were looking to get something going with great starting field position—it also helped to flip the field. Cincinnati lost an astounding 21 yards on that three-play drive, and Pittsburgh was able to take over with breathing room at their own 23.

Dupree and Watt have combined for 12 games played so far this year, and they have put up seven sacks between them. It could be better, but it is not bad. And others have been producing as well. As of this writing, the Steelers are tied for second with 24 sacks, behind only the Jaguars on a record pace with 33 sacks.

 

[Coryea]

Bud played a damn good game, might a few plays that won't show up on the stats sheet

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[Hines57]

Bud played a damn good game, might a few plays that won't show up on the stats sheet

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He's still over running plays, but he got the QB hits yesterday