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Coaching

TDX27

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Putting this out there as a separate thread as I read the below from Jesse yesterday and want to discuss coaching in one spot.

OFFENSE:

Jesse said the Jags were sitting on the Steelers crossing routes. He said they knew we were going to run them from scouting reports and they stopped the routes.

This is where coaching comes in. If they were stopping the routes, why the **** did Haley not switch things up? Why didn't Tomlin tell him to switch things up? Why the **** do we do the exact same things week in and week out with no adjustments? That **** is 100% coaching.

They knew what we wanted to do. Stopped it. And, we did nothing to counter their D. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do we suck so bad in the redzone with so much talent? I know Ben is partly to blame as is stupid penalties but 80% of the blame is on coaching. Ben gets the call and can change at the line to an alternate play - both come from Haley and the overall game theme and feel comes from Haley. This just makes no sense. We go with too much finesse in the redzone and it hasn't worked for years.

In Jax, we had 1st and goal from the 6 and did not run the ball once. A quick run up the gut (may not be Bell's forte, so use someone else) is what is needed on either 1st or 2nd down.

DEFENSE:

Why are we the only team to use 2 D linemen? Yes, you will get tired of me asking this. I have asked hundreds of times over the last 3 years because it does not work. "Sub-package" football, as our local sportscasters like to call it is total BS and the rest of the league is NOT doing it. If they do, they still keep a base front. You must. You still MUST win in the trenches to win NFL games. 2 D linemen can't do that.

In this game, we knew the Jags run power football and make you stop them. We knew Bortles sucks. We still used 2 D linemen. On a 3rd and 3, we had 6 DB's in the game. WTF! They ran for something like 10 for the easy first down.

Butler needs to stop this ****. If he won't Tomlin should. This **** does not work. If we can't stop the run against teams (so far this year) with below average passing attacks, what are we going to do when we start playing teams that can pass and run. KC has a decent passing attack and a great RB. I really can't see us keeping them under 30 and 40 points would not surprise me. I sure hope I am wrong on that but we know we can't stop the run against ****** passing teams.


I am typically not one to over-react on the fire Tomlin crap. And, I still don't think he is going anywhere. I love the stability at coaching the Steelers have had through the years and hope it continues. However, if we get spanked in KC this week because of the above items, Tomlin MUST do something. This season had so much promise and if we are sitting at 3-3 with some of our toughest games still to come, we are in trouble. My call would be to get rid of Haley. But, I have not been impressed with Butler either. On the D side, that could be just as much Tomlin getting too involved as it is on Butler.

What am I missing?
 
Ben can't change any play, per Tomlin last year, only certain situations does he have full control.
When you're at the 6 and come out in an empty backfield, that came from the sideline and is idiotic at best.
What annoys the hell out of me is the way other teams set up their plays, they'll run the guy around like he's going to get an end around just to keep a defender or two honest, eventually they give it to that guy, or they fake the run and hit that guy on a swing pass. Watching KC and GB at the goal line, they use alot if rub routes, they use two TEs to clear the middle of the field, and the wr runs underneath for an easy catch. I agree Ben is part of the problem in the redzone, but watching these other games, they always some how have guys 2 yards open in the end zone making uncontested catches. We seem like we are always running individual routes, nothing to help get someone open.
Defense, the 2DL **** is plain trash, look at how many times we've given up 200 yards rushing the past 2-3 seasons.

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Ben can't change any play, per Tomlin last year, only certain situations does he have full control.
When you're at the 6 and come out in an empty backfield, that came from the sideline and is idiotic at best.
What annoys the hell out of me is the way other teams set up their plays, they'll run the guy around like he's going to get an end around just to keep a defender or two honest, eventually they give it to that guy, or they fake the run and hit that guy on a swing pass. Watching KC and GB at the goal line, they use alot if rub routes, they use two TEs to clear the middle of the field, and the wr runs underneath for an easy catch. I agree Ben is part of the problem in the redzone, but watching these other games, they always some how have guys 2 yards open in the end zone making uncontested catches. We seem like we are always running individual routes, nothing to help get someone open.
Defense, the 2DL **** is plain trash, look at how many times we've given up 200 yards rushing the past 2-3 seasons.

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Agreed with this completely. Our coaching is the most arrogant in the league, thinking we can just win all our one on one matchups, rather than, as you said, scheming to get guys open. We run low percentage plays thinking "well we have Ben, we have AB, etc." and it's just stupid. It's the NFL, the other guys are paid too. This is a Tomlin staple. Throw 9 guys in the box against Tebow all game thinking "well he can't pass" .. 316 yards and a playoff loss later, and they never adjusted the entire game. It is pure arrogance to think you can just impose whatever you want to do without taking the X's and O's into account, and without adjusting.
 
Ben can't change any play, per Tomlin last year, only certain situations does he have full control.
When you're at the 6 and come out in an empty backfield, that came from the sideline and is idiotic at best.
What annoys the hell out of me is the way other teams set up their plays, they'll run the guy around like he's going to get an end around just to keep a defender or two honest, eventually they give it to that guy, or they fake the run and hit that guy on a swing pass. Watching KC and GB at the goal line, they use alot if rub routes, they use two TEs to clear the middle of the field, and the wr runs underneath for an easy catch. I agree Ben is part of the problem in the redzone, but watching these other games, they always some how have guys 2 yards open in the end zone making uncontested catches. We seem like we are always running individual routes, nothing to help get someone open.
Defense, the 2DL **** is plain trash, look at how many times we've given up 200 yards rushing the past 2-3 seasons.

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VERY good post. That's the problem when they go empty backfield as it takes ALL guessing out of the equation. The defensive line has no worries other than JUST rush the passer. Bell is much better out of the backfield as a receiver than when he is lined up as one. It keeps the guessing somewhat, no matter how little, still in play. With the amount of talent and the overall out put, our OC's head should be rolling. A competent head coach would see and make him adjust accordingly but then I did use the word competent.




Salute the nation
 
Agreed with this completely. Our coaching is the most arrogant in the league, thinking we can just win all our one on one matchups, rather than, as you said, scheming to get guys open. We run low percentage plays thinking "well we have Ben, we have AB, etc." and it's just stupid. It's the NFL, the other guys are paid too. This is a Tomlin staple. Throw 9 guys in the box against Tebow all game thinking "well he can't pass" .. 316 yards and a playoff loss later, and they never adjusted the entire game. It is pure arrogance to think you can just impose whatever you want to do without taking the X's and O's into account, and without adjusting.


Could be an overall intelligence thingy but as you said, ARROGANCE and it's ugly.




Salute the nation
 
As fans we can sit and watch on TV and most of us know what play is going to be ran....

Why the hell cant the coaches figure this out? I’m sure as Hell positive that other teams that actually watch film know exactly what we are gonna do because they are the the positions our WRs are before the ball is even thrown.

Either our WRs are just too stupid, or our play calling is very predictable. I’ll let you guys decide which is more accurate.
 
I've been screaming about the empty sets also. Keep Bell in the backfield. Make the D keep a guy close to the line to keep an eye on him rather than putting everyone deep in passing lanes. It just makes no sense. That is all on coaching.

Ben does get the option to check out of the play and go to a run but that play is already predetermined by Haley. So, Ben has some responsibility. That is why I said at least 80% of the play calling is on Haley.

I would have no problem getting rid of Haley and having someone coach the rest of the year on an interim basis using the same plays but with more logic put into when and how to call those plays. Tomlin could even do that. We just need some logic behind what we are doing - mix things up - and be able to adjust during the game (multiple adjustments may also be needed).
 
Not really a big Colbert fan but he’s gotta be scratching his head. The talent is there two maybe three of the best young d line, three of the best young linebackers in all of football. A First and a second rd pick in secondary with two pro bowl caliber free agents. Butler, butler, butler... he sucks!
 
Not really a big Colbert fan but he’s gotta be scratching his head. The talent is there two maybe three of the best young d line, three of the best young linebackers in all of football. A First and a second rd pick in secondary with two pro bowl caliber free agents. Butler, butler, butler... he sucks!

I think Colbert did a very good job assembling the team, especially for this year. There is a good mix of veterans and young talent with several impact rookies this year. Add in some of his late additions and this team had talent across the board and solid depth. The coaching staff needs to find a way to get these pieces working.
 
I've been screaming about the empty sets also. Keep Bell in the backfield. Make the D keep a guy close to the line to keep an eye on him rather than putting everyone deep in passing lanes. It just makes no sense. That is all on coaching.

Ben does get the option to check out of the play and go to a run but that play is already predetermined by Haley. So, Ben has some responsibility. That is why I said at least 80% of the play calling is on Haley.

I would have no problem getting rid of Haley and having someone coach the rest of the year on an interim basis using the same plays but with more logic put into when and how to call those plays. Tomlin could even do that. We just need some logic behind what we are doing - mix things up - and be able to adjust during the game (multiple adjustments may also be needed).



I was enjoying your post until I came to the part about letting TOMLIN do it............ **** Tomlin can't do it now with an OC how the hell is he going to handle it without one????? More logic........... When and how........... All those seem to escape our head coach, OBVIOUSLY !!!!





Salute the nation
 
I was enjoying your post until I came to the part about letting TOMLIN do it............ **** Tomlin can't do it now with an OC how the hell is he going to handle it without one????? More logic........... When and how........... All those seem to escape our head coach, OBVIOUSLY !!!!





Salute the nation

Anyone can do it at this point on an interim basis. I don't think Tomlin meddles with the O like he does with the D. That is why I said he could possibly call the plays on O. I would still much rather use one of the existing coordinators for the rest of the year.
 
Green Bay won a superbowl against us running 2DLs

I'd have to see video or pics showing them running 2 DL over 50% of the time to buy that. Running it on occasion is not what we do. We run in well over 50% of the time.
 
I'd have to see video or pics showing them running 2 DL over 50% of the time to buy that. Running it on occasion is not what we do. We run in well over 50% of the time.
Hell we've run it a few times this year in goal line situations, let that sink in.
Also Jesse James even hinted at us being out coached by Jax. Saying it was obvious Jax game planned to take away the crossing routes, and that we need to be less predictable in our game plan

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Hell we've run it a few times this year in goal line situations, let that sink in.
Also Jesse James even hinted at us being out coached by Jax. Saying it was obvious Jax game planned to take away the crossing routes, and that we need to be less predictable in our game plan

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I mentioned Jesse's comments in my opening post on this thread. Makes no sense that we didn't adjust and just goes to prove how predictable we all thought we were.
 
Hell we've run it a few times this year in goal line situations, let that sink in.
Also Jesse James even hinted at us being out coached by Jax. Saying it was obvious Jax game planned to take away the crossing routes, and that we need to be less predictable in our game plan

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How about james just stick to doing his job. If he does his job on this play by occupying the LB Bell most likely scores
bellrec3ydsvsJAXq3.gif
 
Hell we've run it a few times this year in goal line situations, let that sink in.
Also Jesse James even hinted at us being out coached by Jax. Saying it was obvious Jax game planned to take away the crossing routes, and that we need to be less predictable in our game plan

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How about james just stick to doing his job. If he does his job on this play by occupying the LB Bell most likely scores

https://d2ktslqdxj4m4t.cloudfront.net/uploads/2017/10/bellrec3ydsvsJAXq3.gif

[IMG]https://d2ktslqdxj4m4t.cloudfront.net/uploads/2017/10/bellrec6ydsvsJAXq1.gif
Same play executed correctly for a first down
 
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Here is a crossing route not covered.. too bad the field wasnt scanned and one reciever was locked onto.. Ju Ju coming open on a crossing route
roethlisbergerincrzbrownvsJAXq3.gif
 
Here is a crossing route not covered.. too bad the field wasnt scanned and one reciever was locked onto.. Ju Ju coming open on a crossing route
roethlisbergerincrzbrownvsJAXq3.gif

I know I'm arm chair QB'ing. But this is a stupid play. TE stays in to block,,, Nix stays to block... Ben has plenty of time..

We throw to AB in the corner ,, smh hes great but hes short and there is no route running separation that can even happen here at the 2 yd line. Ben is locked on from jumpstreet.

dumb
 
This is so bad... He like lost his mind and didn't block a bit.

And all he had to do is stand in front him make him go around. Just dont block too early. He didnt anything.
 
I know I'm arm chair QB'ing. But this is a stupid play. TE stays in to block,,, Nix stays to block... Ben has plenty of time..

We throw to AB in the corner ,, smh hes great but hes short and there is no route running separation that can even happen here at the 2 yd line. Ben is locked on from jumpstreet.

dumb

And he audibled to that play.
 
JuJu was not open the LBs were underneath that and quit moving when Ben released the ball

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