The zone defense thread.

[Coryea]

Our offense is very QB friendly how much more freedom does he need?

The freedom to go no huddle, up tempo, etc when he wants to, I bet the opposing offense never dictates what Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees do, especially if they are losing. It would help save Bell some wear and tear too, we lost the first Ravens game because Tomlin would open the offense up earlier.

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[antdrewjosh]

The freedom to go no huddle, up tempo, etc when he wants to, I bet the opposing offense never dictates what Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees do, especially if they are losing. It would help save Bell some wear and tear too, we lost the first Ravens game because Tomlin would open the offense up earlier.

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And this is your reason for why he hasnt had a big time best QB on the field type of game in the playoffs recently??

 

[Coryea]

He was the best qb on the fields for 2 of the 3 this year, and the 3rd his WR's dropped 3 TDs. He threw for 300+ without Bell and Brown vs the defense that shut down Brady and NE, we probably win if it's not for our 3rd string qb fumbling.
It's not the only reason, but it would help.

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[Stryker]

I agree Del, the GM is not doing a good job of understanding the age/contract of expiring stars and implementation plans to replace them before they are gone. It happened at center, and we got Sean Mahan. It happened at TE when Heath retired, it even happened at WR when Hines left, but we hit the lottery with a 6th rounder. RB, we had that ****** platoon of Dwyer and who cares. DBs depleted. OLB is still thin. Now the ILBs, which were a strength recently, are a question mark, because we didn't hit harder on Hightower.

Personnel moves haven't been perfect here, but I have been surprised with the influx of young talent recently, and late in the past few drafts. I think they started drafting better after the Jarvis Jones debacle, so their measurables improved. Long snappers aside, they still didn't sit on their hands and hope he fell to them undrafted, and I can't fault them for that, though I understand the resource value for actually drafting a LS is low, but they addressed the issue before anyone here was thinking about it.

I'm not as excited about this past draft, but the top end seems to have promise with Watt and JuJu, Sutton, Conner. Adams was an intriguing 7th round pick and Holba should make the team. Dobbs and Allen are Meh to me. Maybe contribute down the road. Maybe not. But at least the quality of the choices seems to be improving.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Forget scheme. If you can't get pressure with 4 rushers then it's tough to be a great pass defense. Burns and Davis and Sutton can be great but if the Steelers still have to rely on blitzes, they won't be able to cover good passing teams.

There is reason for optimism. Tuitt is a stud. Heyward will be back. Hargrave showed lots of promise. The DL has the 3 best rushers they've had in a long time.

That leaves Dupree and Watt as the key to the season. We know Harrison is a role player at this point and Chickillo is merely decent. They are the depth. Dupree and Watt are the only chance for a great rush.

 

[wig]

Sure would be cool if our elite QB out played their elite QB

You can make an argument that he did.

At one point Roethlisberger had what, 12 straight completions? How many passes were dropped in the EZ? 2 perhaps 3? Once Hamilton caught the ball in the EZ but he'd stepped out of bounds and come back in beforehand. That's 21 pts. right there.

Coates dropped a pass that would have been worth 3 at least, 7 at best. That's 25 to 28 points now... I would argue Ben DID play as well as Cheatin' Tom did and Roethlisberger threw the ball farther than 10 ******* feet in the air.

So, please, don't even try to compare the two. Brady ******* handed the ball off forward the entire game and exploited a tremendously ****** job of the defensive coordinator to adjust to it. (Well over half of Cheat-boy's passes were less than 5 yards in the air.) In fact only 2 of his ******* passes actually travelled farther than 20 yards. Consider that. He only threw 2 real ******* passes in the entire game. The rest of it was predominantly forward pitches (literally) to glorified scat-backs that our defense was too ******* dumb to put on their *** the second the ball was snapped.

No. Ben actually played the position. There's no comparison.

 

[wig]

When Ben Rothlisberger plays like the best QB in football in a playoff game and we still lose let me know.

AFC Championship game last year.

As noted, 3 dropped TDs, 21 pts. (2 from Hamilton, 1 from Brown)

another dropped FG / TD. 3 to 7 pts (Coates)

Hamilton caught a TD after he'd stepped out of bounds... 7 pts (Again, Hamilton)

(31 to 35 pts. for the fans at home.)

He ate Brady's lunch. Without cheating and he even "threw" the ball.

 

[SteelChip]

If my recollection is on track, there were some interceptions thrown in there some place.

 

[GMC]

Obviously BB is holding us back. Time for Landry and Dobbs to make the Steelers great again.


SMH.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Obviously BB is holding us back. Time for Landry and Dobbs to make the Steelers great again.


SMH.

Clearly not what im saying. Just saying its been a long time since Ben has had a lights out performance in a playoff game in a win or loss. And despite the drops last year in the AFC championship game it was clear Brady was on another level. Granted out defense may have something to do with that i will admit. Just i will like to see our guy domimate a playoff game

 

[slashsteel]

Clearly not what im saying. Just saying its been a long time since Ben has had a lights out performance in a playoff game in a win or loss. And despite the drops last year in the AFC championship game it was clear Brady was on another level. Granted out defense may have something to do with that i will admit. Just i will like to see our guy domimate a playoff game

He has a WR that has attention issues-focus issues in spite of that is double triple teamed......, a RB that can't stay healthy, another WR that can't stay on the field due to drug issues. another one who can't stay on the field due to injury issues. A leaky secondary.. A substandard pass rush.

I would like to see all of these factors not to be present in a playoff game.

 

[antdrewjosh]

He has a WR that has attention issues-focus issues in spite of that is double triple teamed......, a RB that can't stay healthy, another WR that can't stay on the field due to drug issues. another one who can't stay on the field due to injury issues. A leaky secondary.. A substandard pass rush.

I would like to see all of these factors not to be present in a playoff game.

I guess as far as the offense goes. Wasnt really talking about the defense issues as they have nothing to do with him playing lights out.

 

[slashsteel]

I guess as far as the offense goes. Wasnt really talking about the defense ssues as they have nothing to do with him playing lights out.

Sometimes the two go hand in hand. The O ignites the D and vice versa.

If your D is on the field for a lengthy amount of time or gives up a quick TD, it can cause ripple effects on your QB as well. More pressure,to catch up or a QB not in sync due to sitting on the sideline for a lengthy amount of time. Sure it impacts to a lesser degree. But it all equates in.............

And with everything I mentioned Ben did well to get the team as far as he did..

 

[wig]

If my recollection is on track, there were some interceptions thrown in there some place.

1 interception.

 

[wig]

Ben has had a lights out performance in a playoff game in a win or loss. And despite the drops last year in the AFC championship game it was clear Brady was on another level.

Bullshit. You're just talking out of your *** here.

Brady was 32 for 42 for 384

Ben was 31 for 47 for 314. (1 int) Ben had 3 dropped TDs, one TD that was nullified because Hamilton stepped out of bounds and then came back in. One dropped pass that would have been at least a FG or at best a TD. Thats a 31 to 35 pt swing.

The Steelers lost by 19.

Brady's receivers had a better day statistically, no doubt about it. But Brady didn't complete more than 2 passes over 20 yards all day. Seriously. Only 2 ******* passes. He did NOT outplay Ben. No way, shape or form. You simply can't defend that. Brady's receivers and his forward handoff game outplayed our pathetic defensive scheme. I won't argue that. But Ben did more than enough to win that game. Way more than enough. 21 pts were DROPPED in the endzone. 7 were nullified. at least 3 were dropped on the 3rd play of the game.

**** happens. It's no big deal at the end of the day - but honestly. Don't pretend BEN didn't come to play. Cause that's 6 kinds of horseshit.

 

[wig]

I suppose we could please Antdrew and cut Ben and Landry move their money over to Bell. Ben hasn't completed a pass in a playoff game in what? 13 years?

 

[ark steel]

Clearly not what im saying. Just saying its been a long time since Ben has had a lights out performance in a playoff game in a win or loss. And despite the drops last year in the AFC championship game it was clear Brady was on another level. Granted out defense may have something to do with that i will admit. Just i will like to see our guy domimate a playoff game

You are forgetting the commandment "Thou shalt not criticize Ben".

 

[black and gold apex]

I hate seeing that 8-10 yard cushion. Never beat Brady with that coverage.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Bullshit. You're just talking out of your *** here.

Brady was 32 for 42 for 384

Ben was 31 for 47 for 314. (1 int) Ben had 3 dropped TDs, one TD that was nullified because Hamilton stepped out of bounds and then came back in. One dropped pass that would have been at least a FG or at best a TD. Thats a 31 to 35 pt swing.

The Steelers lost by 19.

Brady's receivers had a better day statistically, no doubt about it. But Brady didn't complete more than 2 passes over 20 yards all day. Seriously. Only 2 ******* passes. He did NOT outplay Ben. No way, shape or form. You simply can't defend that. Brady's receivers and his forward handoff game outplayed our pathetic defensive scheme. I won't argue that. But Ben did more than enough to win that game. Way more than enough. 21 pts were DROPPED in the endzone. 7 were nullified. at least 3 were dropped on the 3rd play of the game.

**** happens. It's no big deal at the end of the day - but honestly. Don't pretend BEN didn't come to play. Cause that's 6 kinds of horseshit.

Brady was better take your homer glasses off. He was better. If you switched everything you wouldnt be saying well Brady guys dropped this or that just that Ben had a better day. In the Packers super Bowl Rogers WRS dropped passes too and it was still clear Aaron Rogers was the better QB that day

 

[wig]

We're not arguing that. I think Aaron Rodgers is probably the best QB to ever play the position, certainly the best in the current era. His numbers speak for themselves. Nobody, not even Brady with Ernie Adams whispering in his ear can touch Rodgers.

Your contention is that Roethlisberger hasn't played well or "come up big" since you don't know when. That's simply not true. And it's not about whether or not it's reasonable to criticize Roethlisberger. Of course it is. He tends to force things. He certainly focuses too much attention on Brown. But given the performance HE put up in the AFC championship game, you can't suggest for a moment that HE didn't come up big in that game. If those TD passes aren't dropped. If Sammie Coates sews velcro to his hands, the team makes at least 24 more points. And that's not counting Hamilton's gaffe of stepping out of bounds and then coming back in for a catch.

Sure, that's a young player mistake. You aren't going to crucify a kid for that, but the fact is, Roethlisberger delivered a TD pass (again) right into his hands. (That would have been 3 for Hamilton, btw). Hamilton ALONE could have won the AFCC. It didn't happen that way, but that wasn't on Roethlisberger. That's my argument.

But, by all means. Have it your way. Release Ben and Landry. Put Dobbs in there as a decoy and direct snap to Bell for the first 6 games before he's hurt. With all the money that's saved the Steelers can tie up Bell for well over 3 years. Any putz with an arm can throw as well as Roethlisberger back there. It seems that's your contention, and obviously that putz will do better in playoff games after Bell undoubtedly drives the team to a perfect 6-0 season before he blows his knee out and collects the remaining 6.1 million on his franchise tag. After that it will be superman Dobbs to put up game after game of 156.00 qb ratings while executing a seamless offense. Roethlisberger will likely be spending his time trying to work out how to program his direct tv as you seem determined that he's incapable of managing the most insignificant of task. Perhaps after Bell is injured, Ben can pay him to come over and work his remote for him. I'm sure Bell will gladly take the money.

 

[antdrewjosh]

We're not arguing that. I think Aaron Rodgers is probably the best QB to ever play the position, certainly the best in the current era. His numbers speak for themselves. Nobody, not even Brady with Ernie Adams whispering in his ear can touch Rodgers.

Your contention is that Roethlisberger hasn't played well or "come up big" since you don't know when. That's simply not true. And it's not about whether or not it's reasonable to criticize Roethlisberger. Of course it is. He tends to force things. He certainly focuses too much attention on Brown. But given the performance HE put up in the AFC championship game, you can't suggest for a moment that HE didn't come up big in that game. If those TD passes aren't dropped. If Sammie Coates sews velcro to his hands, the team makes at least 24 more points. And that's not counting Hamilton's gaffe of stepping out of bounds and then coming back in for a catch.

Sure, that's a young player mistake. You aren't going to crucify a kid for that, but the fact is, Roethlisberger delivered a TD pass (again) right into his hands. (That would have been 3 for Hamilton, btw). Hamilton ALONE could have won the AFCC. It didn't happen that way, but that wasn't on Roethlisberger. That's my argument.

But, by all means. Have it your way. Release Ben and Landry. Put Dobbs in there as a decoy and direct snap to Bell for the first 6 games before he's hurt. With all the money that's saved the Steelers can tie up Bell for well over 3 years. Any putz with an arm can throw as well as Roethlisberger back there. It seems that's your contention, and obviously that putz will do better in playoff games after Bell undoubtedly drives the team to a perfect 6-0 season before he blows his knee out and collects the remaining 6.1 million on his franchise tag. After that it will be superman Dobbs to put up game after game of 156.00 qb ratings while executing a seamless offense. Roethlisberger will likely be spending his time trying to work out how to program his direct tv as you seem determined that he's incapable of managing the most insignificant of task. Perhaps after Bell is injured, Ben can pay him to come over and work his remote for him. I'm sure Bell will gladly take the money.

You just wrote a whole bunch of over the top nonsense lol. Chill out Wig

 

[slashsteel]

You just wrote a whole bunch of over the top nonsense lol. Chill out Wig

but is he that far off? I think the WRs held us back in that game.

And I look forward to seeing a outcome with a better O supporting cast.

 

[antdrewjosh]

but is he that far off? I think the WRs held us back in that game.

And I look forward to seeing a outcome with a better O supporting cast.

You chill out too lol because im talking about the second paragraph or did you stop reading

 

[slashsteel]

You chill out too lol because im talking about the second paragraph or did you stop reading

I got lost somewhere between go and stop.

lol

 

[wig]

I did hyperbolize a bit in the last paragraph.

But I stand by my original point. Ben played a great game in the AFCC game. He did more than enough to win the game. It didn't turn out that way, but it's not like he was dramatically outplayed by Brady. That's just not the case. Brady's receivers (two of them in particular) took a TON of very short passes and turned them into very large gains over and over and over. That was simply a defensive failure of epic proportions. It's not like we haven't seen it before. The truth is Tomlin, Butler and Lebeau can't seem to adjust to what the cheaters are doing on offense to save their souls regardless.

At the end of the day, the folks who didn't come through on the offensive side of the ball were ultimately Cobi Hamilton, Sammi Coates and of course Leveon Bell. Had one or two of them done just a LITTLE bit in the game and it may have been a different outcome.