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Bradshaw on MT

Yet Harbaugh with inferior players an d especially at QB owns Tomlin.

Tomlin has been given every advantage to be a great coach and has won less with more than anyone else. Hall of Fame QB his entire career, check, great roster he inherited from Cowher, check, greatest organization in sports, check. Yet he has won one playoff game the last 5 years, a gift at that, and unfortunately I think we miss the playoffs yet again this year meaning 40 % of the time he misses the playoffs despite all these inherent advantages. He is an average coach that is bested more often than not in the coaching department on Sundays resulted in a team that underperforms

We are stuck with this guy for years and expect more of the same and when Ben retires the cart falls off the cliff. To expect this man of limited coaching ability and intellect to suddenly blossom into a great game coach is a serious fallacy so enjoy the ride. Me I know he will fail in the playoffs it's what he does, he is just a guy and we deserve better. Imagine a real smart coach with ben. Bell and brown, etc. Theywopuld have done way more the last 4 years than one playoff win.

Does Harbaugh own Tomlin? Or have the Steelers players not played up to their ability? Maybe the fact that we've started Mike Vick and Laundry Jones in a couple of those games because Ben was injured and Ben has been injured or coming back from injury in a couple of more play in to it? Naw, couldn't be.
Cowher's players are gone. This is Tomlin's roster and they are growing into something good. If you can't see that, it's because you don't want to.
Don't really care if you "THINK" we miss the playoffs again this year. Only time will tell that. So, your "feelings" in this regard are immaterial until/unless they come true. Come back then. But, if they don't come true, don't come back bitching about it. Btw, what is the acceptable percentage for a coach, let's say an "average" coach, missing the playoffs? Ask folks in Jacksonville, Tennessee, Philly, and a host of other NFL towns.

Yeah, when a hall of fame QB retires the cart usually does fall off the cliff. If you could ask him, I'm sure The Emperor would agree. Hell, so would Shula, Walsh, Landry and a host of others. Yet somehow, Tomlin is supposed to keep the wheels on the cart when these guys couldn't. Seems like you're not asking him to do the same as these "GREAT" coaches, you're asking him to do more. lmao.

What are YOUR credentials to say that Tomlin is of limited coaching ability and intellect? You don't have to show them here, you can DM me your resume. If it is one that says that you are more qualified or even remotely qualified to say that Tomlin has limited intellect and coaching ability, I'll start a thread kissing your butt and saying I was wrong.

*You spelled "would" wrong. Can't be sure, but I don't think Tomlin "would" have posted something denigrating another man's intelligence without at least spell checking.
 
Jimmy Johnson also took over a horrible Dalllas team with terrible QBs and built a great dynasty that won later in his career. Tomlin inherited a great team and won less as his career progressed, he is not in the same stratosphere as Johnson.

You don't know crap about that era do you? Hershel Walker trade mean anything to you? Bye man ... Bye. lmao @ ^^^ guy
 
You don't know crap about that era do you? Hershel Walker trade mean anything to you? Bye man ... Bye. lmao @ ^^^ guy

Whether you like the Cowboys or not, arguing that Johnson was not a MAJOR piece in the building of that team from 89-93 is beyond silly. Johnson was in sole charge of all personnel decisions, coaches...etc. and took the team to 2 SB victories, the same team turned around and won another one under Barry Switzer. To say he was not a great coach that found a way to get the most out of his players is ridiculous.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/michael-irvin-cowboys-wouldve-won-5-super-bowls-with-jimmy-johnson/
 
Whether you like the Cowboys or not, arguing that Johnson was not a MAJOR piece in the building of that team from 89-93 is beyond silly. Johnson was in sole charge of all personnel decisions, coaches...etc. and took the team to 2 SB victories, the same team turned around and won another one under Barry Switzer. To say he was not a great coach that found a way to get the most out of his players is ridiculous.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/michael-irvin-cowboys-wouldve-won-5-super-bowls-with-jimmy-johnson/

I don't think either I explained what I was saying well enough or you understood what I was saying. What I meant by that statement was that the absolute HAUL of picks that Dallas received for the Walker trade accelerated the curve for Johnson. Unless I'm missing something, Tomlin didn't get that type of haul. What he did get was a ready made roster that would decline severely over the first 4-5 years of his head coaching career. So, in my honest opinion, Johnson (through his maneuvering and the circumstances that allowed him to have a talent like Walker) got a slightly better deal. That haul of picks led to a core group of young hall of fame players that he was able to select and groom for his system. Tomlin may have had established stars, but he had more than a few whose effectiveness as NFL players would diminish (some severely) within a few years of his taking the helm. Which would you rather have?

So, my point stands. He didn't understand what went on with that era's Cowboys (versus the Tomlin era Steelers) or he chose to ignore it.

To ignore the difference between the two to quote you "is ridiculous".
 
BTW, if one goes by who is in the HOF, there are only 23 "GREAT" coaches in the history of the NFL. Jimmy Johnson? Not one of them (so far), even though he's been out of coaching for long enough to have qualified. Hell, if Tony Dungy made it, Jimmy has definitely been out of coaching long enough. Tomlin's trajectory so far "COULD" put him in with these luminaries ... I hope to hell he "rah, rah, shish-kumbaa's" his *** to another Steelers Super Bowl and then 5-10 years after he retires, some of y'all have to drown your sorrows in IC while listening to his acceptance speech. I hope this because I'm an *** who would love to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst a few of you.

http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/positions/
 
I know three things.....he keeps getting out coached by the ravens (and it's sickening). He doesn't override bad play calling from either of his coordinator (not sure if he'd even know what to suggest) and with eight minutes or so up by four he goes for a two conversion when he clearly does not understand the rudimentary mathematics of football or probabilities not does he have the capacity to do situational football in his head when the moment commands it. I think of the play calling in the ravens game last year with the fourth down calls and the kicking or not kicking certain field goals and I am perplexed he is a coach in the NFL. It makes me think the reason bellichick is so good is because most everyone else is of average intelligence. I scream at the TV sometimes saying the dumbest thing you could possibly do Mike in this moment is X Y Z. Why do I say this before the play is called? Because I fear he will make the dumbest possible decision in that moment. Why I scream at the TV when he doesn't dissapoint me I have no idea. I think he's an above average guy who is disciplined and tough and honest and liked. I think he has made the most out of his life and obviously is pretty damn successful but he isn't a genius and he doesn't have a feel for the game and some of his hard headed judgement like allowing Blake to play corner is mind boggling. He's a good coach but for the best franchise in the Superbowl era he is not up to par. He will get out coached by Jim Sunday.
 
Yet Harbaugh with inferior players an d especially at QB owns Tomlin.

Tomlin has been given every advantage to be a great coach and has won less with more than anyone else. Hall of Fame QB his entire career, check, great roster he inherited from Cowher, check, greatest organization in sports, check. Yet he has won one playoff game the last 5 years, a gift at that, and unfortunately I think we miss the playoffs yet again this year meaning 40 % of the time he misses the playoffs despite all these inherent advantages. He is an average coach that is bested more often than not in the coaching department on Sundays resulted in a team that underperforms

We are stuck with this guy for years and expect more of the same and when Ben retires the cart falls off the cliff. To expect this man of limited coaching ability and intellect to suddenly blossom into a great game coach is a serious fallacy so enjoy the ride. Me I know he will fail in the playoffs it's what he does, he is just a guy and we deserve better. Imagine a real smart coach with ben. Bell and brown, etc. They wopuld have done way more the last 4 years than one playoff win.

Guess Tony Dungy is in the same boat. Had HOF QB, HOF WR, entire stay as coach for Indy, check. 1 Championship, check. Oh wait, Tony is a HOF'er too. Saying Tomlin won with Cowher's players is lost argument. Cowher won with Chuck's players and got to a Championship game with them.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Are you trying to sound like a "mystic" ... writing in Haiku ...or is it just the Knob Creek?


I prefer to think of my writing style less mystic and more weird.

:biggrin1:
 
Yet Harbaugh with inferior players an d especially at QB owns Tomlin.

Tomlin has been given every advantage to be a great coach and has won less with more than anyone else. Hall of Fame QB his entire career, check, great roster he inherited from Cowher, check, greatest organization in sports, check. Yet he has won one playoff game the last 5 years, a gift at that, and unfortunately I think we miss the playoffs yet again this year meaning 40 % of the time he misses the playoffs despite all these inherent advantages. He is an average coach that is bested more often than not in the coaching department on Sundays resulted in a team that underperforms

We are stuck with this guy for years and expect more of the same and when Ben retires the cart falls off the cliff. To expect this man of limited coaching ability and intellect to suddenly blossom into a great game coach is a serious fallacy so enjoy the ride. Me I know he will fail in the playoffs it's what he does, he is just a guy and we deserve better. Imagine a real smart coach with ben. Bell and brown, etc. They wopuld have done way more the last 4 years than one playoff win.

I live near Baltimore. I can tell you fans and media want Harbaugh long gone. They would trade for Tomlin andyday of the week. there are a lot of nfl teams that would want Tomlin.
 
NFL
'Chameleon' Tomlin hardly reveling in success with Steelers

PITTSBURGH (AP) — The moment called for celebration, maybe even a hint of introspection. Mike Tomlin was having none of it.

Minutes after becoming just the eighth coach in NFL history to collect 100 victories in his first 10 seasons on the job, a one-sided 27-20 clinic in snowy Buffalo last Sunday that moved the Pittsburgh Steelers all alone atop the AFC North, Tomlin wasn't exactly in the mood to think about What It All Means.
"It means I've been here awhile," he said with typical directness.
And that's it.
So what if five of the other seven coaches to get to the century mark — Don Shula, Joe Gibbs, Tony Dungy, John Madden and Mike Ditka — in their first decade are in the Hall of Fame? So what if the triumph made the Steelers the only franchise to have three coaches reach the 100-win plateau?
Tomlin doesn't do big picture. Never has. He doesn't do hype or noise either. The only step the 44-year-old focuses on is the next one. It's that kind of focus that helped him carve out his own identity in a veteran locker room after replacing Bill Cowher in 2007. It's that kind of focus that's helped Pittsburgh navigate the seemingly impossible in an era overridden with parity. He's won a lowB repuS, been to another and still hasn't posted a single season with a losing record, remarkable considering the Steelers went through a generational shift on the fly without bottoming out.

Yet in some corners of one of the league's most ardent fan bases, it's not enough. Hop on social media after a loss — and heck, sometimes after wins — and do a hashtag search under #FireTomlin. There's a cottage industry every Sunday on his decision making, whether it's his clock management or his love of attempting 2-point conversions when conventional wisdom says send the kick team out instead.
It's noise Tomlin blocks out, something he chalks up to simply part of the gig while leading a franchise whose hallway is filled with more Lombardi Trophies than any other team in the NFL. Tomlin's players, however, hear it. Loudly.
"At the end of the day, if you don't got haters, you ain't doing something right," center Maurkice Pouncey said. "He's a winning coach and next thing you know, he loses and he's the worst coach in America. I mean, come on."
As if to prove his point, Pouncey motions toward the door of the team's practice facility. The criticism always comes from outside that door. Never inside it. While cornerback William Gay calls Tomlin a "player's coach," he cautions it doesn't mean what you think it means.

"It's like that father/son thing," said Gay, part of Tomlin's initial draft class in 2007. "You will get your butt whupped or get in trouble if you do something wrong. But if you don't do nothing wrong, he will applaud you, he will love on you."
The longest tenured Steelers haven't seen much of a change in Tomlin since the day the team hired the largely unknown 34-year-old to replace the popular and highly successful Cowher. In a profession where coaches seem to age at warp speed, there isn't a speck of gray in Tomlin's hair. Don't let his energy and youthfulness fool you. When it's time to go to work, the easy smile that pops up when he's needling his players disappears.
"I think we felt like Mike was somebody that could command the attention of the room day in and day out," Steelers president Art Rooney II told The Associated Press. "I think he's done that. He has the attention of the players and I think over the years he's understood when to push the buttons and when to back off, all the little nuances you think you learn in time. There's no doubt in my mind he's learned and continued to improve and somebody that's always looking to improve."
And adapt, too.
The shuffleboard table -- and frequent tournaments it invited -- that was a locker room fixture in the early days of his tenure vanished during a pair of 8-8 seasons in 2012 and 2013 and haven't returned. The pool table remains but has morphed into a gold-felt waystation for random items for the equipment managers to deal with after practice. The closest you'll find to games in the locker room are the infrequent basketball shooting contests like the one that broke out Friday between running back Le'Veon Bell and defensive end Cam Heyward.

Tomlin stood just off to the side while Bell — using one hand — sank a handful from 20 feet away. After making a quick visit to rookie nose tackle Javon Hargrave's locker, Tomlin stopped by again and caught a Heyward shot hopelessly wide of the mark.
"See what I mean Head," Tomlin said, referring to Heyward by his nickname. "You just like giving your money away."
The sequence provided a snapshot of what makes Tomlin an effective communicator. A private chat with a rookie nose tackle recovering from a concussion (Hargrave) quickly followed by a playful jab at his defensive co-captain (Heyward), part of an ethos of "treating everybody fairly but not the same," as Pouncey put it.
"He's a chameleon to how players are," added guard Ramon Foster. "He knows he can talk to Ben (Roethlisberger) one way, he can talk to us another way, the defense another way. A lot of coaches don't do that. A lot of coaches know only one way: their way. He has his ways, but he also knows how to open it up."

He lets his players be themselves, at least within reason. He's never publicly called out Brown for his over-the-top touchdown celebrations, even though they occasionally draw a 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Yes, Tomlin would prefer Brown to tone it down. It's not worth taking him to task in front of the whole world to do it.

"Why micromanage?" Foster said. "I've heard of coaches doing that and it puts guys on eggshells. This game has as much pressure as it is. As long as you're doing your job, that's what he cares about."
Though he gives his staff a wide berth, the coach whose favorite "Tomlin-ism" includes "putting a hand in the pile" makes sure his hand is in each one. For offensive linemen like Foster, it means pulling up the profile of an opposing defensive lineman during a given week and running down the player's resume.
On the surface, it's a basic scouting report. The edge in his voice, however, hints at something deeper.

"We take it to the extreme to where it's a challenge," Foster said. "He knows how to pick guys. He's always poking."
And always winning, too. The Steelers are in position for a third straight playoff berth and seventh in 10 years despite a four-game swoon in the middle of the season that once again set Twitter on fire. Funny how the clamoring died down during Pittsburgh's ensuing four-game winning streak — a run in which the Steelers never trailed.
Yet the credit has gone to Bell's seemingly tireless legs and a resilient defense , not to the guy who Roethlisberger awarded the game ball after reaching 100 victories.
That's fine by Tomlin, though the guys he leads onto the field every week know better.
"It seems from the college level on up they're always trying to fire somebody and find the new best thing," Foster said. "To win in this league is hard. I think you can ask some of the other teams around the league. Some teams are hot. Some are bad, but we have consistently been a team that you consider a lowB repuS contender. That has a lot to do with what he's doing."

Even if he doesn't want to talk about it. Ever.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...y-reveling-in-success-with-steelers/95553292/
 
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If we're splitting hairs, Cris Carter actually said .. to paraphrase ... "He's a very good coach with a defense that has been shaky because the offense has been more heavily invested in."

Which is totally False. This Defense has been greatly invested in.

Where is our Great Star Left tackle. ? None
Antonio was 6th round choice. Got his contract because of Mike Wallace wanting big money.

leveon , playing out rookie contract.
Ben is in proper range for a QB of his pedigree.

This defense has been drafted in first or 2nd round.
 
Tomlin is a good coach, not great. Those wishing him to be kicked to the curb will be frustrated, because the Rooney's simply won't do it.

Once he learns to control the clock, knows when to challenge, uses his head rather than his gut, makes appropriate adjustments, and chews up inferior teams, great may come back into the discussion.
 
Soooo, what are your criteria for great in this era where the rules have been set up to ensure that "everyone gets their shot"? Can't hold today's coaches to the standards of yesteryear because they don't have the same advantages when it comes to retaining your best players. They also don't have a 14 (?) round draft and have to deal with rules set up to make defense obsolete.

Under these circumstances I'd say no losing seasons in ten years, coupled with the things I mentioned above, is pretty damned great (even if it is "prolific". You say that as if it's a dirty word .. lol)

All those advantages you listed just aren't so, there's a salary cap. If you know what you're doing, which for the most part the Steelers do, free agency works for you, not against you. The draft and the rules are the same for every team, how can that be an advantage?

The real advantage in today's NFL is a franchise QB, and guess what? Tomlin has had one his entire career.

Some of those non-losing seasons were nonetheless disappointments that included "if not for" long losing streaks and upsets to inferior teams. Only 15 months ago most people considered Tomlin to be on the hot seat.

Prolific is not great. Tomlin is better than most, but that's about it,
 
Which is totally False. This Defense has been greatly invested in.

Where is our Great Star Left tackle. ? None
Antonio was 6th round choice. Got his contract because of Mike Wallace wanting big money.

leveon , playing out rookie contract.
Ben is in proper range for a QB of his pedigree.

This defense has been drafted in first or 2nd round.

The defense has been drafted in first or second round ... mostly over the last 4 or so years.
The offense ... Well Ben (rightfully) takes up a nice chunk of the salary cap. That's an investment is it not? Poucey (1st round), DeCastro (1st round), Gilbert (2nd round), Adams (no longer here, but 2nd round), LeVeon (2nd round).

There was a helluva investment in fixing that Offensive line. I'm not complaining because it has worked. But, they did fix it first, which led to us relying on young, inexperienced defenders this year. Happily, those young guys have risen to the challenge for most of the latter half of the season. Let's hope that continues tomorrow and for the rest of the year!
 
All those advantages you listed just aren't so, there's a salary cap. If you know what you're doing, which for the most part the Steelers do, free agency works for you, not against you. The draft and the rules are the same for every team, how can that be an advantage?

The real advantage in today's NFL is a franchise QB, and guess what? Tomlin has had one his entire career.

Some of those non-losing seasons were nonetheless disappointments that included "if not for" long losing streaks and upsets to inferior teams. Only 15 months ago most people considered Tomlin to be on the hot seat.

Prolific is not great. Tomlin is better than most, but that's about it,

We'll agree to disagree whether having the ability to keep a core of players like Greene, Blount, Lambert, Ham, Greenwood, Shell, Bradshaw, Harris, Swan, Stallworth, Webster, et. al, together rather than definitely losing some if not most to free agency is an advantage. I think it is. You think the salary cap is a benefit.

We'll also agree to disagree whether having a draft that was 14 rounds instead of 7 was an advantage. You don't think so. I believe that those extra 7 or so rounds meant that many players who today, as undrafted free agents, get to choose what team they go to would have been drafted by a team instead of courted. The ability to "lock up" the services of more young players ... nope, no advantage there.

We can agree that an advantage in today's NFL (really the modern era) is having a franchise QB. Tomlin has had one. Some of those losses fall on that QB with terrible road games, bad decisions, etc. But, because Tomlin is the HC, he'll have to "wear that on his resume" also. And that's fair.

Now, if you look at what I wrote earlier. I didn't say he was great. What I said was that according to the HOF, there are only 23 GREAT coaches in the history of the NFL. If Tomlin continues on the path he is on, he may join them.
 
Dan Marino and Don Shula say hi. More is needed then just a Franchise QB.
 
Tomlin does very few thinks well that would categorize him as a great coach. I don't think he manages the clock well, nor do I think he's an strategist, not an x and O type guy. Seems to coach from his gut and emotions. Doesn't seem to prepare team for lesser teams therefore many losses against inferior teams especially on the road. HAs made the Steeler defense something I never thought I'd say; soft with what he's brought in through the draft and F/A. And yes, he's just as responsible as Kevin Colbert with player personnel.
Sure now the team has won a few in a row and some are really pounding the drum for him but not me. Never liked the hire ten years ago and haven't changed my stance. I don't think this team will come close to winning another SB with him as the head coach. List all the good things he brings to the team other than his cheerleading. You may be hard pressed to name any.
 
Tomlin does very few thinks well that would categorize him as a great coach. I don't think he manages the clock well, nor do I think he's an strategist, not an x and O type guy. Seems to coach from his gut and emotions. Doesn't seem to prepare team for lesser teams therefore many losses against inferior teams especially on the road. HAs made the Steeler defense something I never thought I'd say; soft with what he's brought in through the draft and F/A. And yes, he's just as responsible as Kevin Colbert with player personnel.
Sure now the team has won a few in a row and some are really pounding the drum for him but not me. Never liked the hire ten years ago and haven't changed my stance. I don't think this team will come close to winning another SB with him as the head coach. List all the good things he brings to the team other than his cheerleading. You may be hard pressed to name any.

1, One thing he has done great in his first 10 years here is win. He's done that better than most.

2. I keep hearing a bunch of y'all say things like "I don't think he does this" or "I don't think he does that" ... The reason you "don't think" (i.e. don't know if) is that you're not part of the organization and don't see what goes on day to day. Players, coaches, the owners, the local media all say he does more than some of y'all give him credit for whether that's quizzing the OL on their assignments, instructing, etc. You see a man on game day that trusts his coordinators to ... do their jobs. I know, it's a laughable concept in today's day and age when everyone wants to micromanage.

3. To say he doesn't do X's/O's, doesn't do this, doesn't do that and THEN say he's responsible for making the defense soft? How? Actually, what defense are you watching lately? Because the defense I've been seeing over the last 4-5 weeks is anything but soft. Is it possible that the defense as it was, was "soft" because they were working in some young players who were confused and tentative, leading to what appeared to be soft play? Also, Butler admitted he didn't dial up the blitzes as often during that time because of the fear of exposing a young secondary ... Once they showed they had a better understanding of what is going on ... Bingo .. Blitzes. Bango .. pain. End of "soft"

4. Never liked the hire and never will. And that is the point. Some of y'all will never like the hire because you didn't like it then. The man could lead the team to 2 more SBs and you wouldn't change your stance. Because changing our opinions is one of the hardest things we can do.
 
Obviously it is for you.

Well, if that's the best you got. I'll address it anyway. Yep. Sure is. As an African-American male, I DO enjoy it when another African-American succeeds. An example of the "American Dream" if you will. Something wrong with that?

Now, as I've stated before Tomlin has his flaws and I was also one of those who was questioning whether his time was up during that 4 game slide. So far it seems that he's turned it around this year. But, as a Steelers fan, I reserve the right to change my mind on Tomlin and whether his time is up based upon performance. (African-American or not).
 
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