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No one does that exclusively; that was never asserted. But if you are trying to play bump and run with a safety trying to keep up with the likes of Desean Jackson, good luck.
Cockrell Expects CBs Up At Line Of Scrimmage More This Season
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No one does that exclusively; that was never asserted. But if you are trying to play bump and run with a safety trying to keep up with the likes of Desean Jackson, good luck.
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Hmmm, no mention of the team being 30th against the pass a few seasons ago? Does he get credit for that too?
You have to ask coach because even though I'm the known Tomlin nuthugger here you cant find one post where I ever said Tomlin is the sole reason something improved anything since he has been here. But if you are going to point out someone as the sole reason something sucks you should be able to say the same when something improves.
And I have no problem with him taking the blame for being 30th. Cool no problem he's the head coach..
But he damn well better get the credit for the ups we've had but he doesn't its Cowher players its he had Ben it's he had Lebeau etc etc. Lather rinse repeat
But he damn well better get the credit for the ups we've had but he doesn't its Cowher players its he had Ben it's he had Lebeau etc etc. Lather rinse repeat
Come on AJ, Tomlin only gets credit for negative things, not positives.
Just like he's a politician or something...
Just like he's a politician or something...
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Same combine speed as Richard Sherman. Josh Norman ran a 4.57. You saying those 2 guys don't have the speed to play bump and run also?
Please don't confuse him with facts
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It's a myth that the steelers play with a "cushion". It's not a cushion, it's a cover 3 scheme. In the cover 3, the CBs are not responsible for the short pass. They are supposed to drop back and cover a deep third of the field. Most commonly, the 2 CBs backpedal and run back to cover that deep third of the field. The FS covers the middle deep third and the SS steps up and plays more like a LB.
There are variations. You can have one of the CBs play man, then have the 2 Safeties and the other CB drop into deep thirds. They did that with Ike a lot.
Watch a Seahawks game and you will see Sherman playing with the supposed "cushion" on a lot of plays.
The difference is Sherman is much better at it than the current steeler CBs. Even though the CB is responsible for a deep third, he still has to read the play. If there is WR runs a short route and there is no other WR or TE that is threatening his deep third responsibility, then he is supposed to come up quick and make a play on that short pass, usually just making the tackle to keep it a short gain.
Sherman is great at that and he has the advantage of an excellent pass rush and great support from Safeties so he can be more aggressive and take some chances.
Steeler CBs have had neither a pass rush nor great safety help so they can't be as aggressive breaking on underneath stuff. And they aren't as good as SHerman at reading the patterns and making that quick decision.
If the steelers are going to play closer to the line, it likely means more cover 2. In the cover 2, the CB is responsible for those short throws. He is also responsible to bump the WR because with only 2 deep safetied responsible for a half field each, it takes some time for them to get into position. If the CB doesn't get a bump and the WR just runs that fly pattern down the sideline, it's 6 easy points because the Safety won't get there in time.
There are variations. You can have one of the CBs play man, then have the 2 Safeties and the other CB drop into deep thirds. They did that with Ike a lot.
Watch a Seahawks game and you will see Sherman playing with the supposed "cushion" on a lot of plays.
The difference is Sherman is much better at it than the current steeler CBs. Even though the CB is responsible for a deep third, he still has to read the play. If there is WR runs a short route and there is no other WR or TE that is threatening his deep third responsibility, then he is supposed to come up quick and make a play on that short pass, usually just making the tackle to keep it a short gain.
Sherman is great at that and he has the advantage of an excellent pass rush and great support from Safeties so he can be more aggressive and take some chances.
Steeler CBs have had neither a pass rush nor great safety help so they can't be as aggressive breaking on underneath stuff. And they aren't as good as SHerman at reading the patterns and making that quick decision.
If the steelers are going to play closer to the line, it likely means more cover 2. In the cover 2, the CB is responsible for those short throws. He is also responsible to bump the WR because with only 2 deep safetied responsible for a half field each, it takes some time for them to get into position. If the CB doesn't get a bump and the WR just runs that fly pattern down the sideline, it's 6 easy points because the Safety won't get there in time.
I think that ends the debate. Coach and POP won't be back to this thread. They'll start a new one.
fify
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Antdrewjosh has issues with the truth / the way facts are presented. When he doesn't like it he will go off tangent and insert his own new information not relevant to the conversation.
In this case, Tomlin was a DC for just one year, and his team finished 31st vs the pass. In addition Tomlin's cover two never took off here. My points. His points talk about the Steelers defensive improvement.
Just one small problem...
Tomlin was NEVER the DC in Pittsburgh. Lebeau was, and he ran a 3-4 which was very different than Tomlin's philosophy. It's not like Tomlin changed anything. It was Dick's show.
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It all depends on the scheme, if the CB has a Safety Blanket deep then it's great they try to jam at the LOS, this will interrupt the QB route clock and give more chance to the blitzers to get home. Hope they implement it with the correct scheme. Having fast Safeties will help this, check and check.
EDIT: Tape did a great post above about cover schemes
EDIT: Tape did a great post above about cover schemes
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in about 4 weeks probably
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Try they are far more physical than Cockrell, bigger and stronger. For example, Sherman is 6'3, with long arms. He's very strong, benching 16 reps, and jumped very well. So he's suited for bump and run, which some people here lack the understanding of what it is, and the attributes needed to be good at it. He can push WR's around inside the 5 yard area and mess up the timing of the play as good as anyone. Darrelle Revis is another very good bump and run corner.
Seattle also has / good safeties who could help out their aggressive corners on plays when then got beaten at the line of scrimmage by playing aggressively.
Once agian, our corners are on the slow and weak side, and our saftey help is pretty average, and I'm being kind there. If Burns and our 2nd round pick shine, then we can play more affrod to play more agressively.
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Lmao so it was just a confidence the defense improved when Tomlin took over. Which is always my point when it comes Tomlin and those who want to place blame. Fine place blame but you have to give credit when due too.. Don't go oh its Cowher players it's Ben or in this case its Lebeau's defense when in fact before Tomlin arrival we hadn't done that well against the pass. You want to point to Tomlin one year at Minnesota as DC. When I've already explained that their run defense was very good to the point teams didn't try to run against them. So on top of not being good against the pass, teams threw the ball even more because they couldn't run. Hence the ranking.
When he was the secondary coach in Tampa Bay they were no 2 in 2003 no 1 in 2004 and No 3 in 2005. And please don't say that's not relavant because a lot of people point to his background as a secondary coach to lament the issues we have had against the pass. When before his arrival from 2003 to his arrival the Steelers under lebeau finished 10th in 2003, 4th in 2005, 19th in 2005, and 20th in 2006. So explain that Coach.
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We have too many square peg players at DB, you can't force them into a round hole and expect better results.
We lack the speed, size, and overall coverage ability to play aggressive up close man coverage, and would be burned deep too often. While I hate these 6-10 yard cushions, I understand why they are there.
The pass defese last year was very bad, and we played 7 back up qb's. Burns is very raw. Davis has even more to learn, and looked terrible in coverage on the film I saw. Expecting to green rookies to fix things....good luck with that.
The improvment on defense will be a the pass rush with Dupree, and possibly Hargrove adding something to the 4 man rush.
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Dude, I'm opting out. Last reply back to you in this thread....You are trying to say a secondary coach, not the DC is the reason why Tampa's defense shined??? LOL. Do you realize how insane this logic is? It's like saying our Tight Ends coach is the reason why our offense is so good.
Tomlin had one year as the DC. The DC calls the plays. Are you aware of that? It's his show. Minny with Tomlin as their DC was terrible vs the pass. 31st overall. Stats do not lie. Minny's Run defense was good before and after Tomlin was the DC at Minny so you can't credit him there either.
As for your question, I'll take LeBeau's track record on defense over Tomlin and it's not even close. Lebeau has some #1 rankings. Five of them to be exact on the Steelers. He was never 31st as Tomlin was.
PS: You listed 2005 twice. We finished 4th, not 19th as you wrote. In 2006 we finished 9th overall in yards, NOT 20th. You ask me to explain it, and the data is wrong. This is a mess. Like I said opting out of this thread. You'll be better on others
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How many here have pointed to Tomlin's background as a secondary coach with frustration as to why we have problems with the pass. Well damn he was a secondary coach our pass defense should be fixed. Please don't sit here and tell you have not read that on this board. And if you didn't say it you damn sure didn't come and point out that he is the head coach and not the secondary coach like you are trying to do now. You want to point to one year..you know why it was good the Williams Brothers(not really brothers) teams refused to run against them. There fore they passed. So whatever problems they had as a pass defense was exacerbated by teams refusal to run against them and try to move the ball via the air. See what I'm trying to get into your head is stats don't always tell the whole story.
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I'm not expecting either of them to start game 1. Mitchell has a lot of speed, Golden has decent speed, especially compared to Will Allen, with one of them covering deep one side of the field where the CB (Cockrell/ Burns) is jamming while the other side of the field plays more of a cushion zone (where Gay plays).
It can be a mix zone coverage
Perhaps Tomlin's philosophy is using the talents of his assistants and players to win. Looks like it to me. We're coming up on a decade with the man, and the sky is falling cover 2 posters are still screaming that the cover 2 is coming. Thus far he's relied on DL and Butler to set the D.
If it ain't broke...
I love how people are blasting Tomlin's inability to draft and cultivate DBs or stellar pass defense play, since he has a background in secondary coaching. Then in the next breath, not giving him credit for his achievements as a secondary coach; it seems a bit myopic to me...
If it ain't broke...
I love how people are blasting Tomlin's inability to draft and cultivate DBs or stellar pass defense play, since he has a background in secondary coaching. Then in the next breath, not giving him credit for his achievements as a secondary coach; it seems a bit myopic to me...
I mean after Ike, Townsend, Clark, and Polamalu exited over the last 6 years he hasn't exactly been blessed with first round talent and top free agents thrown back at him. He's been given scrubs and told to cure cancer basically.
The big misses with Hood, Jones, and Worilds is what has led us to never getting to the secondary. If we could've fixed those areas with those guys we could've drafted CBs in the first round years ago
The big misses with Hood, Jones, and Worilds is what has led us to never getting to the secondary. If we could've fixed those areas with those guys we could've drafted CBs in the first round years ago
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ill be the first to cheer if we lose the "cushion" but all the talk of cover 2's, 3-4's, 4-3's is pretty much a mute point anymore. its all about how you play your multiple backs. i think well see zones and man coverages mixed trying to confuse the qb and the receivers as to the routes they are suppose to be running. you see it a great deal of this in college with safeties in man coverage with linebackers and dbs in zone and youre beginning to see it in the pros. i think we will be in good shape as to what the coaches want to do either way. cant wait for the season. goooo stttteeeelerrrsss!!
Dude you keep saying we lack the ability to play MAN coverage, and yet you ignored Tape's post that shows if our CBs start playing at the LOS more it'll most likely be Cover 2, not man coverage. It's like you simply keep repeating the same assertion without dealing with the responses, and also I'd like to know where you get the insight that you KNOW we don't have the speed, strength, size? (Cockrell- 6'0, Gay- 5'10, Burns- 6'1) what height exactly is proper to play man coverage? Josh Norman is 6'0, I don't see a massive difference there, the only argument for size is with Golson. In terms of speed Norman ran a 4.66 at the combine, while Cockrell ran a 4.56 so is it simply that Cockrell doesn't have Norman's strength to play BnR? I'd like to see the proof of our CBs lack of strength. In terms of overall coverage ability, Gay while older is still a savvy vet who understands coverages and offensive formations with route combinations, so he is still solid. Cockrell joined us right after the preseason and didn't have a full training camp with us yet and he is still young so we shall see how he does this year. Golson has yet to play and therefore we can't KNOW how good he is yet. Burns has the speed, size, strength, and we shall see his coverage ability but he has the potential. Seems to be a lot of wait and see on these guys, and only their coaches KNOW what they are capable of most, and we are limited in our ability to make such sure assertions.