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I don't care what you say, Nine Deuce is a Hall of Famer

stillwright said:
Shouldn't JH at least be compared to other LBers?
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It cut and pasted poorly and I had to go to work before I could delete/edit the post. I wasn't trying to make a comparison between JJ and JH

If you look at the active list, I'd say that at least the first 6 guys on that list are all locks. Presumably they would be competing for induction with other linebackers such as Harrison cause usually only 1-2 defensive guys make it any given year.




1. Julius Peppers (36) 136.0 2002-2015 3TM
Jared Allen (33) 136.0 2004-2015 4TM
3. DeMarcus Ware (33) 134.5 2005-2015 2TM
4. Dwight Freeney (36) 119.5 2002-2015 3TM
5. Robert Mathis (35) 118.0 2003-2015 clt
6. Terrell Suggs (33) 106.5 2003-2015 rav
7. Elvis Dumervil (32) 96.0 2006-2015 2TM
Mario Williams (31) 96.0 2006-2015 2TM
9. Trent Cole (33) 88.5 2005-2015 2TM
10. Tamba Hali (32) 86.0 2006-2015 kan
11. James Harrison (37) 76.5 2002-2015 2TM
12. J.J. Watt (27) 74.5 2011-2015 htx
13. Cameron Wake (34) 70.0 2009-2015 mia


Then if you look at the career list, there's a bunch of guys with more sacks that aren't in, and that would at least be competing for a similar spot that JH would take

6. Jason Taylor 139.5 1997-2011 3TM
9. Julius Peppers (36) 136.0 2002-2015 3TM
Jared Allen (33) 136.0 2004-2015 4TM
11. DeMarcus Ware (33) 134.5 2005-2015 2TM
12. John Abraham 133.5 2000-2014 3TM
13
Leslie O'Neal 132.5 1986-1999 3TM
17. Simeon Rice 122.0 1996-2007 4TM
18. Clyde Simmons 121.5 1986-2000 5TM
19. Dwight Freeney (36) 119.5 2002-2015 3TM
20. Robert Mathis (35) 118.0 2003-2015 clt
23. Pat Swilling 107.5 1986-1998 3TM
24. Terrell Suggs (33) 106.5 2003-2015 rav
25. Trace Armstrong 106.0 1989-2003 3TM
32. Joey Porter 98.0 1999-2011 3TM
47. Justin Smith 87.0 2001-2014 2TM
48. Tamba Hali (32) 86.0 2006-2015 kan
Willie McGinest 86.0 1994-2008 2TM
67. James Harrison (37) 76.5 2002-2015 2TM
 
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SteelChip said:
The small number of candidates elected each year has helped foster what some perceive as an inequality of representation at certain positions or in certain categories of player, with defensive players in general and defensive backs and outside linebackers in particular, special teams players, wide receivers, deserving players who primarily played on bad teams, and those from the "seniors" category, being slighted.
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I strongly concur with this. Kevin Greene waited way too long. The Steve Atwater situation is an absolute joke. And now they're talking about keeping Devin ******* Hester out. Such bullshit.

I don't think the sports writers should have a vote. You don't let CNN reporters control the voting of the President, why the **** would you let sports writers decide who makes the Pro Bowl or the Hall?

Coaches watch the most film, know the inside scoop: 40%

Players do it on the field and know who the toughest opponents are: 40%

Fans buy the tickets and ultimately determine a player's popularity: 20%

You'd see a much better breakdown not only of who gets MVPs, but also of how long players take to make the Hall.
 
madinsomniac said:
Harrison is in. He hs the numbers and a dpoy. He has the highlights... Guys like hampton or aaron smith have to wait till the vets vote on them to see if they have a chance, but deebo will be in long before that
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Harrison isn't necessarily lacking in the numbers!


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrJa23.htm

13 years played. Check the box. Better than most in the hall.
31 forced fumbles! Among the leaders in the hall!.
76.5 sacks. A little light for an OLB/pass rusher. Not bad though.
734 tackles. Among the highest at linebacker. Not sure how many have more tackles. Harrison was a beast against the run.
7 interceptions. Not bad.


HOWEVER he was the defensive MVP, has the highlights as you stated, and forced the NFL to change the rules of contact.

I think he'll get in, but he'll have to wait for Ben, and Troy to get in first.
 
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swal75 said:
It cut and pasted poorly and I had to go to work before I could delete/edit the post. I wasn't trying to make a comparison between JJ and JH

If you look at the active list, I'd say that at least the first 6 guys on that list are all locks. Presumably they would be competing for induction with other linebackers such as Harrison cause usually only 1-2 defensive guys make it any given year.




1. Julius Peppers (36) 136.0 2002-2015 3TM
Jared Allen (33) 136.0 2004-2015 4TM
3. DeMarcus Ware (33) 134.5 2005-2015 2TM
4. Dwight Freeney (36) 119.5 2002-2015 3TM
5. Robert Mathis (35) 118.0 2003-2015 clt
6. Terrell Suggs (33) 106.5 2003-2015 rav
7. Elvis Dumervil (32) 96.0 2006-2015 2TM
Mario Williams (31) 96.0 2006-2015 2TM
9. Trent Cole (33) 88.5 2005-2015 2TM
10. Tamba Hali (32) 86.0 2006-2015 kan
11. James Harrison (37) 76.5 2002-2015 2TM
12. J.J. Watt (27) 74.5 2011-2015 htx
13. Cameron Wake (34) 70.0 2009-2015 mia


Then if you look at the career list, there's a bunch of guys with more sacks that aren't in, and that would at least be competing for a similar spot that JH would take

6. Jason Taylor 139.5 1997-2011 3TM
9. Julius Peppers (36) 136.0 2002-2015 3TM
Jared Allen (33) 136.0 2004-2015 4TM
11. DeMarcus Ware (33) 134.5 2005-2015 2TM
12. John Abraham 133.5 2000-2014 3TM
13
Leslie O'Neal 132.5 1986-1999 3TM
17. Simeon Rice 122.0 1996-2007 4TM
18. Clyde Simmons 121.5 1986-2000 5TM
19. Dwight Freeney (36) 119.5 2002-2015 3TM
20. Robert Mathis (35) 118.0 2003-2015 clt
23. Pat Swilling 107.5 1986-1998 3TM
24. Terrell Suggs (33) 106.5 2003-2015 rav
25. Trace Armstrong 106.0 1989-2003 3TM
32. Joey Porter 98.0 1999-2011 3TM
47. Justin Smith 87.0 2001-2014 2TM
48. Tamba Hali (32) 86.0 2006-2015 kan
Willie McGinest 86.0 1994-2008 2TM
67. James Harrison (37) 76.5 2002-2015 2TM
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It's not all about sacks though. I bet Harrison would rate highly in forced fumbles and tackles overall. Can you run those numbers and see where he rates?
 
Tackles is not an official stat I believe, but he only has 734(combined tackles and assists) so I'm guessing that's really not very high. For reference, 40th place is 1000ish, Harrison only has 528 actual tackles(not combined with assists), It's not very high for him, that's for sure.

Forced fumbles wasn't an official stat before 2000, Harrison does well in that metric with 31 career. It's hard to find an accurate list, but i believe he would be about 15th.
 
Harrison, like Lloyd terrified a "generation" of passers, and runners alike.

Unlike Lloyd he also made quite a few WRs crap their pants when they were called to run crossing routes. Lloyd was scary, Harrison is downright devastating. I watched both and frankly, Deebo is a force. Lloyd was never held like Deebo has been his whole career. Lloyd had the fortune to spend a quality season or two with Kevin Greene on the other side wreaking some absolute havoc so offenses were soiling their pant trying to figure out who to focus on.

I'm not taking a thing away from Greg Lloyd. He's an amazing athlete and one of the greatest Steeler linebackers to ever put on the jersey. But if you could stomach watching Deebo get choke-held 9 out of 10 blitzes and still manage to get himself into position to become the Steelers' sack leader, well - I can't imagine you don't have a special place in your heart for him.

Deebo and Hines are my two favorite Steelers, pretty much for the same reason. A tier below that are Heath, Troy and Ben. And for the record, I loved me some Aaron Smith too.
 
Harrison is a bubble guy and mostly because it took him so long to get on the field. If he would have been NFL ready out of college he probably has 50 more sacks and is a shoe in. But I could see him getting in with the old timers vote down the road.
 
FordFairLane said:
Harrison is a bubble guy and mostly because it took him so long to get on the field. If he would have been NFL ready out of college he probably has 50 more sacks and is a shoe in. But I could see him getting in with the old timers vote down the road.
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^^ This

In his prime, he was unfuckwittable.. But his prime just wasn't as long as some of the others, and I'd make the argument that longevity does matter. That being said, I do think he ultimately gets in
 
The fact that it took KG so long to finally get in and that Lloyd STILL isn't in, doesn't bode well for Deebo.
 
swal75 said:
Tackles is not an official stat I believe, but he only has 734(combined tackles and assists) so I'm guessing that's really not very high. For reference, 40th place is 1000ish, Harrison only has 528 actual tackles(not combined with assists), It's not very high for him, that's for sure.

Forced fumbles wasn't an official stat before 2000, Harrison does well in that metric with 31 career. It's hard to find an accurate list, but i believe he would be about 15th.
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I'd love to see the data. Can you post the link to it here or PM me?
 
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