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A first round DT and shifting to 4-3

Steel Vanguard

Steel Vanguard

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I always preferred the 3-4. The 4-3 is a simpler and easier to learn D where pure athleticism can rule the day. But the 3-4 is much more versatile and adaptable on the fly. As such, given you have the personnel, the 3-4 is objectively better because you can do more things with it.

But we have been forced to move out of it because the NFL's unwillingness to properly flag holding on the offensive line means teams can spread us out without risking hits on their QBs. So the shift to other personnel packages has been inevitable. This is where Jarvis Jones comes in.

Jarvis can't rush the QB. But Heyward can. In the 4-3 Jarvis' hustle play style would work alot better, and he wouldn't be responsible for pressures nearly as much. He could play his style of football. We push Heyward and Tuitt to DE, and put our first round DT next to McCullers who now has help minding the middle.

It's not perfect, but would it work? Thoughts?
 
You give jarvis a lot of credit here. I havent seen it.n
 
They have an entire defensive coaching staff that has been trained, played in and then coached for a 3-4 defense. They changed defensive coordinators last year and didn't change the defense. The opportunities have been there to make a change, but they haven't. Plus, they have an extra DB on the field most of the time, so our question should be the personnel we will use with five DBs.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
They have an entire defensive coaching staff that has been trained, played in and then coached for a 3-4 defense. They changed defensive coordinators last year and didn't change the defense. The opportunities have been there to make a change, but they haven't. Plus, they have an extra DB on the field most of the time, so our question should be the personnel we will use with five DBs.
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I dont see them changing away from the 3-4 soon. And yes they do add in the extra db which I think will be drafted in round 1
 
How often are they even in their base defense? It is a game of sub-packages anymore.
 
stillwright said:
How often are they even in their base defense? It is a game of sub-packages anymore.
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That's a good point, and having a 4 down front means less personnel changes on 3rd down. Again, I'm not advocating for it, just thinking out loud.
 
Yea, I think we have to get away from the old line ideas of 3-4 or 4-3. It just isn't so anymore. Maybe that is actually more liberating, as it will allow you to draft guys you may not have before, because you were locked into one thing.
 
xjx said:
You give jarvis a lot of credit here. I havent seen it.n
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This is also Harrison's last year. The 3-4 features pass rushing OLB's. We have a first round disappointment, ranked in the 60's ( there are 64 starting OLB's ) in most categories and a very old warrior.

We also spend far more time in a 4 man front alignment.
 
A guy like Calhoun in rd 2, could be a nice pick for us.


Coach said:
This is also Harrison's last year. The 3-4 features pass rushing OLB's. We have a first round disappointment, ranked in the 60's ( there are 64 starting OLB's ) in most categories and a very old warrior.

We also spend far more time in a 4 man front alignment.
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ZACKB said:
A guy like Calhoun in rd 2, could be a nice pick for us.
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I'm big on this move, I just don't know if he falls to us. I'm certainly not above trading up to get him.

I'm certainly not above trading Jarvis Jones to get him.
 
We don't have enough DL to run a 3-4 without our guys getting winded.
 
ZACKB said:
A guy like Calhoun in rd 2, could be a nice pick for us.
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Agreed. I like him. A solid and proven player.

I'm even higher on Nassib.

He lead the nation in Sacks, tackles for losses, and forced fumbles. A high effort player, who whipped good tackles at the senior bowl week. I hope we get him in round two.
 
every year someone speculates on the 4-3 move, and every year they don't do it.
 
USDA#1 said:
every year someone speculates on the 4-3 move, and every year they don't do it.
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Yes, but if there is any year to do it, now is the time. We lost our NT, and our OLB's are a group are the weakest that have been for decades.

Timmons and Shazier can play 4-3.
 
we play a hybrid for the most part it works if the weak side linebacker slash end can get to the qb. teams like denver, rams shift the rush to confuss the qb works well if you have good pass rushers. to be a great defense we are really need a weak side pass rusher that can beat a tackle. jones isnt that guy. shaq lawson is and a few other guys. you need a guy at least 255 to 270 or an extremely fast guy that can really get around the corner. good pass rush makes for a good secondary and visa versa.
 
I am totally on board with an OLB in this draft
1. WJIII or Apple (I know some don't like Apple)
2. Calhoun, or maybe Nassib
3. Thomson, Cash, or some other safety
4. Dlineman...Ridgeway?
 
For whatever it's worth I woke up this morning thinking A'Shawn Robinson is our pick. No particular rhyme or reason, just that he was our pick. So I'll just go ahead and predict if Robinson is on the board, he will be our pick. Steelers love the young guys in rnd 1, let's not forget that.

As far as the rest of this thread, I think the base D will remain 3-4, with the usual heavy dose of nickel & dime thrown in.
 
Coach said:
Agreed. I like him. A solid and proven player.

I'm even higher on Nassib.

He lead the nation in Sacks, tackles for losses, and forced fumbles. A high effort player, who whipped good tackles at the senior bowl week. I hope we get him in round two.
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The difference is, Calhoun has done it the last couple years where Nassib had a breakout year. If it were between these two in the second round, I'd have to go Calhoun. Nassib is an excellent story and a good kid, but he scares me a little bit.
 
We play more 4 man fronts now than we ever have. The game seems more passing nowdays, so 4 WR sets can be common and even with 2 WR's on the field, we see TE's and RB's gettin' their share of passes too.... in more and more offenses.

One reason imo for our playin' more 4 man fronts is because there is no pressure up the middle from our 3 man front. No pressure makes us have to cover better and without the talent we need another DB back there to help us do that. If we could draft another "Big Snack" it would help out our anemic backfield a bunch.

I thinkin' that either way we go ( drafting a nose or a DB ) can work but I myself liked the NT with OLBers teeing off on passing downs and that's another reason to go 4 man....we currently get very little outside pressure either.

So we need help with the outside rush, middle pressure and better coverage. Pretty tall order for one year, unless you use our two productive DE's and shore up the middle with that monster NT I want.
 
chipped ham said:
The difference is, Calhoun has done it the last couple years where Nassib had a breakout year. If it were between these two in the second round, I'd have to go Calhoun. Nassib is an excellent story and a good kid, but he scares me a little bit.
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Why? Nassib has upside and amazing results. He also proven he can beat Senior Bowl tackles at the combine. A rare effort player as well. Who had better results in 2015 and the senior bowl as an edge guy? NO ONE.

Calhoun played more games. But he's not the quickest or the strongest or the biggest edge rusher. He was flagged nine times for encroachment penalties in the 2015 season, and isn't that strong.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like Calhoun in rounds two or three if Nassib is off the board.
 
Coach said:
Why? Nassib has upside and amazing results. He also proven he can beat Senior Bowl tackles at the combine. A rare effort player as well. Who had better results in 2015 and the senior bowl as an edge guy? NO ONE.

Calhoun played more games. But he's not the quickest or the strongest or the biggest edge rusher. He was flagged nine times for encroachment penalties in the 2015 season, and isn't that strong.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like Calhoun in rounds two or three if Nassib is off the board.
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Ultimately, as of right now he's a one year wonder. He also doesn't have a very strong lower body and if he puts on more weight, you're going to have to consider keeping him at defensive end. I'm not saying I have a problem with the kid, but Jarvis Jones lead the nation in sacks and tackles for loss one time too. Everyone in this coming draft has upside. Some are considered more than others because of what they've done throughout their college careers. If it were between the two, I feel that Calhoun is the safer pick and would hope he was their selection.
 
POP said:
How soon we forget. The two Super Bowl teams put heavy pressure from front 4. It's still the way to win.
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Things change. teams are playing with 2 linemen more than ever. did you listen to colberts statements on the radio yesterday... more or less they need DL depth for the rotation, but he admits that they primarily have 2 DL guys on the field the majority of the snaps, but also says you do have to have someone in case the other team grabs a lead and tries to run down the clock... nothing in what he said even hinted of a 4-3
 
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