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Picking a 4-3 skilled DT in the draft in round one or two who can also play NT.

C

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This is an outside the box type of thread. I know we run a base 3-4, but we also play some 4-3, nickel, and dime. Without checking the snap counts for the alignments ( feel free to help me here ) I'd guess we are in the base 3-4 less than half the time.

The Steelers have quite a few DL players in free agency, and Heyward and Tuitt played perhaps a bit too many snaps due to them being younger and the lack of quality depth behind them.

Let's suppose a talented 4-3 tackle, who can also play NT in a pinch with penetrating skills vs the run, and pass rushing skills vs the pass in on the board in round one or two.

Would you be against picking this player?


I'll list three guys that can fit the Bill.


A'Shawn Robinson*, NT, Alabama
Height: 6-4. Weight: 320.
Projected 40 Time: 5.35.
Projected Round (2016): 1.
1/16/16: In 2015, Robinson recorded 46 tackles with 7.5 for a loss and 3.5 sacks. He came on really strong for the Crimson Tide in the middle portion of the year and showed a combination of power and speed to make plays in the backfield or stuff his gap at the point of attack. Robinson has a versatile skill set to play 3-4 defensive end, nose tackle, or any interior position in a 4-3 defense.

All of Alabama's front seven played well against LSU, but Robinson was the most impressive defender to lead a great team effort. He stuffed a number of runs from Leonard Fournette and also was getting after the quarterback. Robinson followed that up with 2.5 sacks against Mississippi State.

8/22/15: Robinson recorded 49 tackles with 7.5 tackles for a loss, one forced fumble and two passes batted in 2014. In 2013 as a freshman, he was too good to keep on the sideline. Robinson was an impact defender for the Crimson Tide with 38 tackles, eight tackles for a loss and 5.5 sacks. He's quick for his size and very strong. Robinson could be the best defensive lineman Alabama has had since Marcel Dareus.


Andrew Billings*, DT, Baylor
Height: 6-2. Weight: 310.
Projected 40 Time: 5.14.
Projected Round (2016): 1-2.

1/16/16: In 2015, Billings totaled 39 tackles, 14 for a loss and 5.5 sacks. He is a rare interior defensive lineman with a special combination of massive power at the point of attack and a burst to get after the quarterback. Many big tackles like Billings are stationary, but he has displayed the speed to close and make tackles outside of his gap. Prior to an ankle injury this season, Billings was dominating. After a few games of being held back by the ankle, he returned to his previous form and finished the year playing well.


Austin Johnson*, NT, Penn State
Height: 6-4. Weight: 324.
Projected 40 Time: 5.22.
Projected Round (2016): 2-3.
1/16/16: Johnson produced a quality season for Penn State in 2015. He was a tough defender at the point of attack with 78 tackles, 15 tackles for a loss and 6.5 sacks. He had one sack as a sophomore and freshman. The jump was in part due to quarterbacks stepping up to avoid Carl Nassib. Johnson projects as a nose tackle for a 3-4 or 4-3 defense as a Defenseive Tackle
 
Rd 2 - yes.
Rd 1 - no.
Simply b/c we have two stud DE's that are going to play 80% of the snaps.
If we don't sign McClendon, sure Robinson and Billings are in play. However, I bet McClendon is back.
 
kev4heels said:
Rd 2 - yes.
Rd 1 - no.
Simply b/c we have two stud DE's that are going to play 80% of the snaps.
If we don't sign McClendon, sure Robinson and Billings are in play. However, I bet McClendon is back.
Click to expand...

McClendon is a do little NT, just okay vs the run. On passing downs, he's next to a zero. This is a passing league. We need more DL players on the field that can make things happen.

I tend to think McClendon is back, not because he's very good, but because he won't get better offers. If he leaves via free agency, he won't be that hard to find a replacement.

The NT position is a part time position these days. We need a flex guy who can play the run at NT, and add something as a player in 4-3, nickel and dime formations.

If the corners are gone and the only edge rusher worth a 1st round pick is Spence, I'd seriously consider pikcing the three players I listed.
 
We need someone that can play decent so Heyward and Tuitt don't get worn out by the end of the season.
 
coryea said:
We need someone that can play decent so Heyward and Tuitt don't get worn out by the end of the season.
Click to expand...

I am okay with DL being picked in rounds 1, 2 or 3, but they player has to be able to make plays vs the run or the pass.
 
I'm still more concerned about getting a big fast cover corner that I am D-line help.
 
We don't play a nose tackle much on 3rd down because we don't have a big, fast. physical guy who can tie up blockers and collapse the middle. Robinson and Billings seem to be that kind of player and I would add both Reed and Butler. Be thrilled with any of the 4 at #25. Johnson doesn't seem quite as explosive. I think that kind of player helps both our DE's and OLB's as well as our cover guys.
 
If the BPA is clearly a DT or a NT

yes

thing is unless they go with say Spence or Su'a


that very well might be the pick
 
Last edited:
If we end up increasing our D-line snap counts to 2.5 per defensive play, Tuitt and Heyward are going to account for 1.9 of those throughout the season.

That leaves about 600 snap counts both at NT and any "give Tuitt/Heyward" rest snaps.

Not sure that's where our 1st round pick will go for that. I certainly think we need to do something and I would think a GOOD 3rd or 4th round prospect could easily be part of a 2-3 many rotation to get those 600 snaps starting immediately next season. It really depends a lot on self-scouting Daniel McCullers and how good we think he could become. If he is what he is at this point maybe that's a 100-200 snap guy that isn't bad depth in case of injury. Is he more than that? Is he a guy you think can be good enough for more snaps? That you WANT to get more snaps? Is he earning more snaps based on play?

Those are questions the GM and coaching staff have to decide.
 
Coach said:
McClendon is a do little NT, just okay vs the run. On passing downs, he's next to a zero. This is a passing league. We need more DL players on the field that can make things happen.

I tend to think McClendon is back, not because he's very good, but because he won't get better offers. If he leaves via free agency, he won't be that hard to find a replacement.

The NT position is a part time position these days. We need a flex guy who can play the run at NT, and add something as a player in 4-3, nickel and dime formations.

If the corners are gone and the only edge rusher worth a 1st round pick is Spence, I'd seriously consider pikcing the three players I listed.
Click to expand...

Is McClendon even in on passing downs? Usually Tuit and Heyward slide in and we use 2 LBers on the the ends for our 4 man front.
 
I would love to get a pass rushing DT who we can line up as a under DT and run a 4-2-5
LE Heyward rotated with LD walton
DT Mcullers
DT Robinson
RE Tuitt
LB Timmons
LB Shazier
CB Gay
CB Allen/Cockrell
CB Golsen/Boykin
S Mitchell
S Golden
 
F83 said:
I would love to get a pass rushing DT who we can line up as a under DT and run a 4-2-5
LE Heyward rotated with LD walton
DT Mcullers
DT Robinson
RE Tuitt
LB Timmons
LB Shazier
CB Gay
CB Allen/Cockrell
CB Golsen/Boykin
S Mitchell
S Golden
Click to expand...

Boykin isn't coming back..
 
I'm still looking for data on how much time we spend in the following alignments.

3-4 base
4-3 base
Nickel
Dime
Goal line

WIth the NT position being devalued, and complicaitons going from base 3-4 to Nickle on the fly, the more I think about it, the more I'm okay with a 4-3 DT with skills vs the pass and run in round one if the value is there and the Edge Rushers and CB's worth the pick are gone.
 
Coach said:
I'm still looking for data on how much time we spend in the following alignments.

3-4 base
4-3 base
Nickel
Dime
Goal line

WIth the NT position being devalued, and complicaitons going from base 3-4 to Nickle on the fly, the more I think about it, the more I'm okay with a 4-3 DT with skills vs the pass and run in round one if the value is there and the Edge Rushers and CB's worth the pick are gone.
Click to expand...

Based on snap counts:

3-4 Base: 30%
4-3 Base: ??? Do you mean anytime one of our OLB has his hand in the dirt you call in a 4-3 base? Or do you mean have actually 4 D-lineman on the field? If it's the second (like having Heyward, Tuitt, McLendon AND someone like McCullers and/or Thomas, I don't think it's more than 3-5 times all season, if at all).

Nickel - 67%
Dime - 3%
 
I can see Billings being the heir apparent to McClendon. No matter how much Joel (err....Coach) wants to say he sucks, he doesn't. He is a very good run stuffer in our base.
Now, Billings can do more as a pass rusher and become an immovable object. The guy is nasty.
However, I just can't go for a DE that will never play more than 40% of the snaps (between Tuitt and Cam) in the 1st round.
I'm looking at rd 3 and on for DE. JMO
 
If I'm the Steelers front office I'd seriously take a look at Damon Harrison the DT for the Jets. That kid is only 26 and he's a great run stuffer. He would sure up our Defensive Line and allow us to move McClendin around and sub for Tuitt and Heyward to keep them fresh. Signing him would set us up for a run for the next several years....and he can really push the pocket.
 
Chicoman said:
If I'm the Steelers front office I'd seriously take a look at Damon Harrison the DT for the Jets. That kid is only 26 and he's a great run stuffer. He would sure up our Defensive Line and allow us to move McClendin around and sub for Tuitt and Heyward to keep them fresh. Signing him would set us up for a run for the next several years....and he can really push the pocket.
Click to expand...

yeah I touted him in another thread, He would make our run D solid, helping to make opposing O's one dimensional.........
 
I am fine with getting bigger up front and going back to more defensive line snap counts.

When I watched Carolina and Denver play defense it starts up front. Good push inside.

Denver is more like us and we need better play from our OLB's to stress the edges of the O-line so our D-lineman can do a better job but they still have a nice rotation in their front-3. Remember also that Wade Phillips' 3-4 defense has always been based on more 1-gap run defense than 2-gap run defense for his D-line.

Defense is a group effort. If one piece is failing to threaten or win against the offensive piece it's up against, then the offense can grow more confident and start moving and attacking the defense.

We have too many parts of our defense that don't "win" consistently enough. Tuitt is a nice addition to the team. Heyward needs to be more consistent in his ability to be disruptive. The edge rushers need to win their battles more (that's a BIG issue). And the inside linebackers have to be disciplined in their execution, gap control and one-on-one's when asked to blitz. The secondary plays as a group and has to space themselves correctly, play with the perfect amount of aggressiveness and not overthink so they have the freedom to break on routes and use their instincts to make plays.

It's not rocket science.

Starts with talent. Then you teach. Then you support and let them play without smothering them with game-day coaching. Ends with self-evaluation and deciding why mistakes happen (which step above) and whether they can be corrected or a change in personnel has to happen.
 
Deljzc,

We are far away from having a super bowl defense. The goals for 2016 should be to replace weak links, and upgrade the playmaking ability at NT, CB, and S.

If we had a really good 3rd DL player with NT/DT skills who could be a factor vs the pass, we aren't far away from playing a base 4-3.

The D would look something like this

DE Dupree
DT Tuitt
DT New player, lets say Billings 1st round pick
DE Heyward

OLB Spence
OLB Shazier
OLB Timmons

CB Gay
FS Weddle ( Free agent pick up )
SS Mitchell
CB TBA...let's say Golson


^^^This formation would make it easier to switch to nickel, but moving Spence out and the extra DB in, and would also allow us to depoly more men in coverage IF the pass rush went up a notch.

The sacks this year came from other areas. Not enough from the OLB's featured as pass rushers in the 3-4.
 
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