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Regular season stats, end of season.

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http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

What can we glean from them?

The obvious.

1.) Ben is our best QB. By a country mile.

But his int. are too high for an elite QB. If he doesn't reverse that trend of the last 3 games, we lose in week 1 of playoffs. Get a ******* grip, Ben. Stop the absolute retarded decisions to throw directly where a defender is standing.

2.) Williams really is just a tad less productive than Bell, but who knows if we have him for this next game.

3.) Timmons is the defensive MVP. For some reason, not many want to give him much credit, but the bottom line is he is our best player we have on D.

4.) When was the last time BOTH our DEs were our best sack producers? Maybe in the 70's and we were playing a 4-3? I don't know if this is a testament to our DEs being the best we have had in many years or an indictment on the lack of talent at OLB. Perhaps a little of both. One can argue that we shouldn't be taking DEs in the first or second round in our 3-4 system, however, at LEAST we did end up with two good players in Tuitt and Heyward. And BOTH of these guys have shown they can make plays at the most crucial times in games.

5.) Jarvis Jones is officially a bust. He is 16th on the team in tackles and had a total of 2 sacks all year.....a first round draft pick. That is FAIL. Those who stated he was a bad draft pick out of the gate were right, without any doubt whatsoever. You draft an OLB in the first round in a 3-4 system and he is 16th on the team in tackles and has 2 sacks all year? Terrible. Oh wait, Tomlin said his play has been "solid." What a crock of ****.

6.) AB is unworldly. Had Ben not missed games, he would have had over 2,000 yards and broke the all-time record for receptions with over 150. That is phenomenal. I have run out of superlatives to describe this guy. My God, he is simply amazing.

7.) Toussaint stinks. We need better than a 2.3 ypc or we go home early in the playoffs. Yes, I know we are a passing team and we live or die by Ben's arm, but 2.3? That is just awful. What ever happened to Todman? Is he hurt? Why isn't he playing instead of Mr. 2.3 ypc?

8.) Heath was our #2 most productive in terms of catching passes. Not too shabby. The old fella has trouble getting any separation these days, but he can still play, as his 60 grabs prove. I hope we can get 1 more season out of him. He saved Ben's *** twice last game, as two of those passes deserved to be picked off and Heath stole the ball, including for a TD.

9.) Shazier is starting to shine, as, even with missed games, he was 2nd on the team in tackles. If he can stop getting hurt, it is looking like he was deserving of being our 1st round pick. 87 tackles, 3.5 sacks. I think next season he will be playing at a pro bowl level, IF he can stay healthy. With J. Jones being a bust, we desperately need both Shazier and Dupree to end up studs.

10.) Harrison was worth having on the team, with 40 tackles and 5 sacks, but this might be his last season. He is just too slow for the most part.

11.) We rarely give Will Allen much love, but he was 3rd on the team with 80 tackles and had 4 sacks. Is he really that bad? Or is he a legit, quality starting safety?

12.) Most of us don't like Mike Mitchell much, but he also logged 80 tackles. He might be better than most of us realize.

13.) We have really had some sweet games from Bryant, but I wonder if he will remain a one trick pony for the most part, just being a go route receiver. I know he has had a few good plays on bubble screens, but I still feel he has iffy hands and mostly is a guy you send deep and not much else. He rarely comes down with the ball if it's contested in any way, nothing like AB in those terms, and never will be.

14.) Boykin not getting playing time to keep Blake on the field is perhaps the dumbest coaching move in the entire NFL this season. Tomlin has to feed his ego over the success of the team. That makes me puke.
 
http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

2.) Williams really is just a tad less productive than Bell, but who knows if we have him for this next game.

Stats need context. Bell returned from suspension in Week 3 (the St. Louis game in which Ben injured his knee) and was lost for the season in Week 8 (the Bengals game in which Ben made his return).

What can we glean from that?

The vast majority of Bell's carries occurred with either Mike Vick or Landry Jones at QB. He was running into a brick wall. On the other hand, the vast majority of DW's carries occurred with Ben at QB.

I think any conclusion that is being drawn solely from looking at the raw numbers in this case is going to be faulty.

Also, you're judging Toussaint based on 18 carries, many of which occurred at the end of a game in a blowout situation (like vs. the Colts)? Are you 14 years old?
 
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Stats need context. Bell returned from suspension in Week 3 (the St. Louis game in which Ben injured his knee) and was lost for the season in Week 8 (the Bengals game in which Ben made his return).

What can we glean from that?

The vast majority of Bell's carries occurred with either Mike Vick or Landry Jones at QB. He was running into a brick wall. On the other hand, the vast majority of DW's carries occurred with Ben at QB.

I think any conclusion that is being drawn solely from looking at the raw numbers in this case is going to be faulty.

Also, you're judging Toussaint based on 18 carries, many of which occurred at the end of a game in a blowout situation (like vs. the Colts)? Are you 14 years old?

Looking at yards per carry, Williams is not much of a drop off, and I WATCH the games, not just stare at stats.

Am I 14 years old? Are you old as ****, all feeble and out of shape?
 
Stats are for losers

Get out there and hit somebody!
 
Those aren't stats.

Those are opinions offered up like a group of Coach-like threads.
 
Looking at yards per carry, Williams is not much of a drop off, and I WATCH the games, not just stare at stats.

Am I 14 years old? Are you old as ****, all feeble and out of shape?

While Williams has filled in admirably for Bell and even surpassed what many expected from him, one area where Bell is leaps and bounds better is route running and catching the ball. Williams is better than we thought in that area, but Bell can run routes like a WR and has the hands to match. When he's on the field, he's an absolute nightmare creating mismatches. He's too much for a LB or S, and if you put a CB on him when we split him out or put him in motion, that takes coverage away from one of our very talented WR's.

I'm glad we have Williams, will be happy if he is able to play, but there is a BIG drop between Bell and Williams in the passing game. Lets remember that last year Bell caught 83 passes for 8+yards on top of his 1,300+ yards rushing
 
http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

What can we glean from them?

The obvious.

1.) Ben is our best QB. By a country mile.

But his int. are too high for an elite QB. If he doesn't reverse that trend of the last 3 games, we lose in week 1 of playoffs. Get a ******* grip, Ben. Stop the absolute retarded decisions to throw directly where a defender is standing.

2.) Williams really is just a tad less productive than Bell, but who knows if we have him for this next game.

3.) Timmons is the defensive MVP. For some reason, not many want to give him much credit, but the bottom line is he is our best player we have on D.

4.) When was the last time BOTH our DEs were our best sack producers? Maybe in the 70's and we were playing a 4-3? I don't know if this is a testament to our DEs being the best we have had in many years or an indictment on the lack of talent at OLB. Perhaps a little of both. One can argue that we shouldn't be taking DEs in the first or second round in our 3-4 system, however, at LEAST we did end up with two good players in Tuitt and Heyward. And BOTH of these guys have shown they can make plays at the most crucial times in games.

5.) Jarvis Jones is officially a bust. He is 16th on the team in tackles and had a total of 2 sacks all year.....a first round draft pick. That is FAIL. Those who stated he was a bad draft pick out of the gate were right, without any doubt whatsoever. You draft an OLB in the first round in a 3-4 system and he is 16th on the team in tackles and has 2 sacks all year? Terrible. Oh wait, Tomlin said his play has been "solid." What a crock of ****.

6.) AB is unworldly. Had Ben not missed games, he would have had over 2,000 yards and broke the all-time record for receptions with over 150. That is phenomenal. I have run out of superlatives to describe this guy. My God, he is simply amazing.

7.) Toussaint stinks. We need better than a 2.3 ypc or we go home early in the playoffs. Yes, I know we are a passing team and we live or die by Ben's arm, but 2.3? That is just awful. What ever happened to Todman? Is he hurt? Why isn't he playing instead of Mr. 2.3 ypc?

8.) Heath was our #2 most productive in terms of catching passes. Not too shabby. The old fella has trouble getting any separation these days, but he can still play, as his 60 grabs prove. I hope we can get 1 more season out of him. He saved Ben's *** twice last game, as two of those passes deserved to be picked off and Heath stole the ball, including for a TD.

9.) Shazier is starting to shine, as, even with missed games, he was 2nd on the team in tackles. If he can stop getting hurt, it is looking like he was deserving of being our 1st round pick. 87 tackles, 3.5 sacks. I think next season he will be playing at a pro bowl level, IF he can stay healthy. With J. Jones being a bust, we desperately need both Shazier and Dupree to end up studs.

10.) Harrison was worth having on the team, with 40 tackles and 5 sacks, but this might be his last season. He is just too slow for the most part.

11.) We rarely give Will Allen much love, but he was 3rd on the team with 80 tackles and had 4 sacks. Is he really that bad? Or is he a legit, quality starting safety?

12.) Most of us don't like Mike Mitchell much, but he also logged 80 tackles. He might be better than most of us realize.

13.) We have really had some sweet games from Bryant, but I wonder if he will remain a one trick pony for the most part, just being a go route receiver. I know he has had a few good plays on bubble screens, but I still feel he has iffy hands and mostly is a guy you send deep and not much else. He rarely comes down with the ball if it's contested in any way, nothing like AB in those terms, and never will be.

14.) Boykin not getting playing time to keep Blake on the field is perhaps the dumbest coaching move in the entire NFL this season. Tomlin has to feed his ego over the success of the team. That makes me puke.


I pretty much agree with everything.

A few extra's.

1 ) Williams I think is a better red zone back than Bell is.

2 ) Boswell is a money kicker with better range than Suisham. A great find.

3 ) Berry is a bottom level punter. We can do better.

4 ) Wheaton gets my vote for the least utilized player. If Ben didn't love AB so much, he'd find Wheaton is often beating his man.

5 ) Blake and Jones are weak links for the defense. If the Steelers replaced them with average staarters the entire defense will be better. OR # should have kept Brice McCain in free agency! # Should have kept Howard Jones for the pass rush!

6 ) Cockrell is a good #3 Cb who makes plays, better than Blake. He should be starting for now, and Boykin playing the slot. Tomlin's choices...

7 ) McClendon is very average. I miss Joel Steed, and Casey Hampton.
 
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Looking at yards per carry, Williams is not much of a drop off, and I WATCH the games, not just stare at stats.

Am I 14 years old? Are you old as ****, all feeble and out of shape?

Are we talking about the Al from Weird Science? Yes-- as Kelly Brock aptly put it, he's out of shape! There I just showed my age from a classic 80's movie. I hope Steeler Al doesn't take offense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2_L_OlL-BE
 
Looking at yards per carry, Williams is not much of a drop off, and I WATCH the games, not just stare at stats.

Am I 14 years old? Are you old as ****, all feeble and out of shape?

Seems like you do just stare at stats, given that you start your response with "Looking at yards per carry". Williams has been absolutely great, but I do believe if the situations were reversed (Bell playing in games 1-2 and then 9-17 with Williams playing in games 3-8) then you'd have some meaningful separation between the two (i.e. Bell would have a distinct statistical advantage).
 
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7 ) McClendon is very average. I miss Joel Steed, and Casey Hampton.[/SIZE]

Wrong! Our run defense is superb when McLendon (notice this is the correct spelling) is on the field. We suffer against the run when we are in nickel and McLendon is taken out.
 
Seems like you do just stare at stats, given that you start your response with "Looking at yards per carry". Williams has been absolutely great, but I do believe if the situations were reversed (Bell playing in games 1-2 and then 9-17 with Williams playing in games 3-8) then you'd have some meaningful separation between the two (i.e. Bell would have a distinct statistical advantage).

Williams durability is superior to Bell's and he has no off the field issues. Both backs when healthy are very good.
 
Wrong! Our run defense is superb when McLendon (notice this is the correct spelling) is on the field. We suffer against the run when we are in nickel and McLendon is taken out.

He's nothing Al. Just a replaceable cog. Far from Steed and Hampton. McLendon had but 14 tackles this season. Last year he was a bit more active with 22. While I realize his job is to tie up OL players, I saw way too many holes between the DE's with #90 in the middle.
 
He's nothing Al. Just a replaceable cog. Far from Steed and Hampton. McLendon had but 14 tackles this season. Last year he was a bit more active with 22. While I realize his job is to tie up OL players, I saw way too many holes between the DE's with #90 in the middle.

God, you are a remarkable idiot. Do you ever learn anything from this board or do you prefer willful ignorance? I wouldn't give a **** if McLendon had zero tackles for the season. It means nothing to me. Casey Hampton had 20 tackles in 2010, yippee!!!!

Look at rushing yards allowed per carry with McLendon on the field and without him (Steelers Depot has the info). That will tell you something meaningful.
 
God, you are a remarkable idiot. Do you ever learn anything from this board or do you prefer willful ignorance? I wouldn't give a **** if McLendon had zero tackles for the season. It means nothing to me. Casey Hampton had 20 tackles in 2010, yippee!!!!

Look at rushing yards allowed per carry with McLendon on the field and without him (Steelers Depot has the info). That will tell you something meaningful.

Why does this guy resort to name calling so much? We are here to talk football, not insult each other.
 
Why does this guy resort to name calling so much? We are here to talk football, not insult each other.

I don't know. You'd have to ask Al. For the record, I don't think he's a bad guy.

Debating would be best, but ad hominem insults or non-football type of replies don't add to the board.

The thing I don't understand is message boards are all about opinions, and he's not forced to read any of my posts. There are many threads I skip. If he doesn't care for my threads, he can stay out of them.
 
God, you are a remarkable idiot. Do you ever learn anything from this board or do you prefer willful ignorance? I wouldn't give a **** if McLendon had zero tackles for the season. It means nothing to me. Casey Hampton had 20 tackles in 2010, yippee!!!!

Look at rushing yards allowed per carry with McLendon on the field and without him (Steelers Depot has the info). That will tell you something meaningful.

Are you seriously comparing Hampton to McLendon? Boy if I had the game film and could post #90 here, you'd quickly see what I'm talking about. The Steelers don't think much of him Al. He was a low cost re-sign. If McLCendon was that good, don't you think he would have been paid a lot more?
 
Regarding Bell, (and Pouncey for that matter...)
When he's on the field...

Ah, but there's the thing!
 
God, you are a remarkable idiot. Do you ever learn anything from this board or do you prefer willful ignorance? I wouldn't give a **** if McLendon had zero tackles for the season. It means nothing to me. Casey Hampton had 20 tackles in 2010, yippee!!!!

Look at rushing yards allowed per carry with McLendon on the field and without him (Steelers Depot has the info). That will tell you something meaningful.

Don't bother trying to show Coach stats that prove he's wrong when he focuses on one single stat himself. He especially doesn't like it when people show him stats from Steelerdepot proving he's wrong

Why does this guy resort to name calling so much? We are here to talk football, not insult each other.

In this case he's right...

Are you seriously comparing Hampton to McLendon? Boy if I had the game film and could post #90 here, you'd quickly see what I'm talking about. The Steelers don't think much of him Al. He was a low cost re-sign. If McLCendon was that good, don't you think he would have been paid a lot more?

Are you seriously that thick? You posted McLendon's TACKLES stats as to proof as to why he sucks, Al brings up the fact that tackles are a HORRIBLE stat to look at for a 3-4 NT by posting the great Hampton, who you brought up, had a whopping 20 tackles one season, but his impact on the run defense was HUGE. Go to Steelerdepot and look for yourself. When McLendon is off the field is when we are the worst against the run. This isn't saying that he is in the class of Steed or Hampton, just that he's not the reason our run D sucks and is actually pretty underrated by a lot of people. He's definitely better than average, and clearly the best NT we have on the roster.
 
I thought our run D was pretty good this year. :- (
 
Insaniti ,

I use several stats and observations to formulate my opinion.

So Steelerdepot is your gold standard? I'll raise you. If you want football stats, see pro football reference. It's their primary business. Their AV rating for McClendon is rather low, don't you think? Mostly likely he will be a 3 this year. A 3 is or 4 is a below average player.

As I told Al, the Steelers don't think much and made him a cheap offer in free agency. Any team that needs a NT/DT could have done better, but they didn't! What does that tell you? It tells me a lot as 31 NFL teams passed on him. The Steelers made him a very low paid starter in his 2nd contract!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McLeSt00.htm


You say he's
He's definitely better than average
Nope. Below average.

By contrast, a good DL Player like Heyward is a 7

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HeywCa01.htm


Or a great NT like Hampton is a 10 in his prime years!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HampCa00.htm


Or a very good NT like Steed is often a 9

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SteeJo00.htm


Are those better stats for you? They are not mine. Now you could be a gentleman and acknowledge my points as correct and also say that in terms of player evaluation by the NFL and 3rd party stats, they pretty much agree with me on McClendon.
 
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