To all the Tomin haters

[Vader]

Or maybe Ryan Mallet can read a zone coverage better than Ben? Maybe the Rats secondary is better than ours??

I like your posts sometimes too, Vader...

Or maybe the HC knew he had a QB for 12 days and prepared him to run a simple offense and bleed the clock? Maybe he knew the Steelers loved to go deep no matter what and played a cover 2 to force them to be patient and they refused to do it because they "don't live in their fears"?

Also I'm not saying you're wrong. Ben screwed up several times yesterday. But Brown dropped a TD, Wheaton dropped an easy first down and Bryant dropped both. But the HC is also responsible for game planning and needs to understand that you can't go bombs away every week. His arrogance seeps down to the team and they get full of themselves.

 

[bermudasteel]

I agree that it wasn´t Ben´s best performance, but as I said earlier, the coaches should put players in a position to win. Tomlin has been agressive and gone for 4th downs converting most if them. But this game was extremely important against a team, which although it was decimated by injuries, was going to come out on fire to beat the Steelers. Why didn´t Tomlin play the percentages and opted for a conservative approach when it was way TOO EARLY in the game to be taking risks that may give the opponent any momentum?
In games like this, one of the biggest rivaries in the NFL, you don´t give your opponent an inch of hope. Tomlin did.

I said this in the Game Day thread - I agreed w/ the team "going for it on 4th down - early"; what I didn't agree with was the formation.

Let me explain...

As it has been well documented - DW was gashing the Raven's soft defensive front on that first drive because they, the Raven's choose to take the passing game away early. Hot knife thru butter...

The Steelers move the ball with ease until they get inside the 30 and then the drive begins to stall - 4th and 1.

Coach Haley, IMO, gets cute.

He sends in 3 TE's 1 WR and a RB (I believe I'm correct on this - if not I apologize).

The Raven's stack the box and send rushers off the edge - tripping up DW before he can hit the hole. Play gets blown up.

Why not, then, use 3 WR's 1 TE and 1 RB??? A simple drag route or two even gets the needed one yard and a probably 7 points on the drive.

The second option would have been the safe play, but, eh, everything is 20/20 after you see it once...

 

[bigtwnvin]

The Steelers played a ****** game against a ****** team. A case could be made the Steelers although got a few deserved PI calls that kept drives alive, they didn't get some that weren't called that get called in 15 other NFL games; the worst was Wheatons near catch in the closing minute when he was pushed down. UnFAKing believeable . I think the Brown TD that was overturned had a disgusting stench also. That "when is a catch a catch" horse **** likely cost the game. The "go for it" early? Chaz Noll used to say: "Never leave points on the field".
Maybe now that t's over Ben can go "back to Ohio" and have some fun with the Cleve Brownies?
Oh, I forgot, D. Williams romping when they gave him the ball! Wasn't good enough coach, we had to force the ball into triple coverage for an INT? WTFAAA?

 

[SteelerSask2]

I think some of you view this as a beer league where the players show up on Sunday and play. Now coach spin will say the word execution and turnover frequently tomorrow to download that mess on the players. He will not say too passive a defensive game plan. He will not say a lack of pressure. He will not say soft zone coverage. Because frankly he is a coward who takes no personal responsibility. He simply hides behind the word we as it pertains to execution. Not preparation. Execution. Because that really implies the players not the coaches. Time for a culture change.

 

[bermudasteel]

How does anyone know if that was supposed to be a back shoulder throw or if AB was supposed to curl inside? AB has been known to run wrong routes before.
How about AB not securing the ball for a TD? How about Bryant dropping a couple, including one on the last drive that wouldve been 6 if he doesn't fall, and would've been a big gain if he catches it and the ball goes right through his hands, but yeah that's all on Ben too.

I still stand by my defense of AB's TD that was called back. The play should not have been overturned.

We allowed Baltimore to possess the ball for 35 minutes and a 12 day QB have a career day, and what we sacked him one time?

I laid some blame on Coach Butler too...we play too much zone defense on third and long - everyone knows it and when you can sling it in there like a fast ball - you're going to kill those zones.

Or maybe the HC knew he had a QB for 12 days and prepared him to run a simple offense and bleed the clock? Maybe he knew the Steelers loved to go deep no matter what and played a cover 2 to force them to be patient and they refused to do it because they "don't live in their fears"?

Also I'm not saying you're wrong. Ben screwed up several times yesterday. But Brown dropped a TD, Wheaton dropped an easy first down and Bryant dropped both. But the HC is also responsible for game planning and needs to understand that you can't go bombs away every week. His arrogance seeps down to the team and they get full of themselves.

Noted.

If I were Coach Tomlin, and I'm not, I would be knee deep in both my coordinators this week.

Why?

We better have a game plan that keeps Johnny Football in the pocket - so, Coach Butler, find me a QB spy or two...zone blitzes mixed in w/ man-QB spy should frazzle Johnny...

Coach Haley needs to pull out the offensive stops in Cleveland - everything goes this week. Power run game, trick plays, deep balls - EVERYTHING!!!!

 

[Vader]

They'll wipe the floor with the clowns. The clowns are probably the worst franchise in professional sports history. If the Steelers lose to them I'd fire everybody from Colbert down to the coordinators. Seriously, the clowns are pathetic.

 

[slashsteel]

I just don't get how there are any Tomlin supporters left.

This team will continue to underachieve with Tomlin moving forward.

The worst of the worst, play the Steelers you have a chance!

No a head coach is responsible for putting the team in the best position to win.

And the Steelers played a ****** *** team and played like ****.

Tomlin is the man responsible.

He has done it over and over and over again.

He will continue to do it over and over and over again.

I am firmly on the fire Tomlin bandwagon.

 

[antdrewjosh]

So again he can tell where the plan was to go and how it was to be throw and the route ran but nobody else can? You don't know that and he doesn't know that. Maybe he didn't expect Miller to be there because he ran the wrong route? See you can't have it both ways. Either everybody can talk about it or nobody can. Because nobody really knows every in and out of the game and can't know it. But you're ok with him talking about it because it fits your agenda.

This right here is so full of extra bull **** its ridiculous.. he broke down a play that happened. He didn't make up some bull **** about playcalling. The play clearly shows Miller and Williams open yet the ball was forced to someone not open. That's on the QB. AB back shoulder was poorly executed because of the pass. Could of been AB but on the TV screen it looked the pass wasn't where it should of been. I didn't like the call on the goal line..spread and did not blame Ben so much cause it looked like it should of been caught before the pick. And if the play would of stood I would of been all over the play call simple cause it annoys me. Short yardage spread plays annoy me. Cause the defense doesn't have to respect the run. Anyway who threw the pass to Wheaton that would of kept the drive going on third down that the talking heads clearly said should of been to the outside but was inside. Like I said one QB made big time throws all game and it wasn't ours..You know that franchise one

 

[Vader]

This right here is so full of extra bull **** its ridiculous.. he broke down a play that happened. He didn't make up some bull **** about playcalling. The play clearly shows Miller and Williams open yet the ball was forced to someone not open. That's on the QB. AB back shoulder was poorly executed because of the pass. Could of been AB but on the TV screen it looked the pass wasn't where it should of been. I didn't like the call on the goal line..spread and did not blame Ben so much cause it looked like it should of been caught before the pick. And if the play would of stood I would of been all over the play call simple cause it annoys me. Short yardage spread plays annoy me. Cause the defense doesn't have to respect the run. Anyway who threw the pass to Wheaton that would of kept the drive going on third down that the talking heads clearly said should of been to the outside but was inside. Like I said one QB made big time throws all game and it wasn't ours..You know that franchise one

More bullshit from you. You can't break down a play 100% because you don't know enough about the play unless they come out and tell you after the game. Just like you thought the RB wasn't covered when he absolutely was covered. And you're looking right at it and didn't even ******* know it. Again you don't know if Miller ran the wrong route or if AB did as well before that. You're guessing. Yes, he could have checked it down but remember you are the same people that bitched when Haley was hired to "reign" Ben in and wanted to keep BA who always went bombs away regardless of the coverage. It's ******* hypocritical now to say "take the check down". You never wanted him to before. Now in order to protect Tomlin it's Ben that needs to be careful with the ball.

Like I said Ben didn't play well but Tomlin was outcoached again by a guy playing his 4th QB who was on the streets just 13 days ago. Tomlin is the one responsible for the players on the field. Most of them he drafted. He's the one that's the DB guru remember? He's the one who wanted to change the defense. That's on him.

 

[antdrewjosh]

More bullshit from you. You can't break down a play 100% because you don't know enough about the play unless they come out and tell you after the game. Just like you thought the RB wasn't covered when he absolutely was covered. And you're looking right at it and didn't even ******* know it. Again you don't know if Miller ran the wrong route or if AB did as well before that. You're guessing. Yes, he could have checked it down but remember you are the same people that bitched when Haley was hired to "reign" Ben in and wanted to keep BA who always went bombs away regardless of the coverage. It's ******* hypocritical now to say "take the check down". You never wanted him to before. Now in order to protect Tomlin it's Ben that needs to be careful with the ball.

Like I said Ben didn't play well but Tomlin was outcoached again by a guy playing his 4th QB who was on the streets just 13 days ago. Tomlin is the one responsible for the players on the field. Most of them he drafted. He's the one that's the DB guru remember? He's the one who wanted to change the defense. That's on him.

What are you talking about that has been my biggest criticism of Ben since he's been here. Take the freaking checkdown in rhythm. I've always said this is why Brady, Peyton, Brews and the likes are truly elite. I've said this since Mendy was here. Mendy was severely under utilized in that aspect. Ben got better with it with Bell and now it's totally not consistent with it again. He hit Williams yesterday in rhythm one time and it was a big gainer.If the Qb hits the RB in rhythm the RB has a good chance to be one on one with a linebacker. Give your playmakers a chance to make a play. And I wanted Haley from the door for exactly the reasons most didn't he would hold Ben accountable. I hoped he would curse him out on the sidelines like he did with Warner. So I don't know who you referring too.

 

[chipped ham]

Well at least I know where some of you get your ****. They gave up almost 400 yards of offense and 35 minutes of possession to a guy off the street and a backup running back and no receivers and all the papers talk about is Roethlisberger. Wow.

The game was a joke yesterday. The offensive and defensive game plans were flat out stupid, the players and coaches both looked completely flat and appeared to be sleep walking, the execution was god awful and the in-game adjustments were too late. Yet, for all the sucktitude that was, the defense gave the offense the ball back with 2:55 left on the clock with a chance to win the ******* game. At that point, that team should have came out on fire and shoved it right down the Ravens throats and taken that game away. Instead, Ben takes a really bad sack. At that point, it was over. sadly, for as bad as it was, it really was unavoidable due to the "bang-bang" nature of it happening but the guy literally fell and managed to get enough of Ben to stop him. So, naturally, on the next two downs, needing 15 yards and having damn near two minutes to go yet, we come out looking for the damn touchdown right away. Baltimore was still leaving things open in the middle of the field and Ben still opted to go for the home run. Had there been a mere few seconds on the clock at that point, there would be no complaint. But there was still damn near two minutes left on the clock for the offense to use the field. Pat Kirwan said "the best thing for an offense to do is to take the grass that the defense is willing to give them." Yesterday, that would have been enough to at the very least tie that game if not flat out win it in the closing minute.

 

[diver]

I just don't get how there are any Tomlin supporters left.

This team will continue to underachieve with Tomlin moving forward.

The worst of the worst, play the Steelers you have a chance!

No a head coach is responsible for putting the team in the best position to win.

And the Steelers played a ****** *** team and played like ****.

Tomlin is the man responsible.

He has done it over and over and over again.

He will continue to do it over and over and over again.

I am firmly on the fire Tomlin bandwagon.

The problem is that the minute someone says something like "Ben played like ****," you Fire Tomlin Now! guys get you panties all knotted up and interpret it as Tomlin support.

I'd be fine if they fired Tomlin. That being said, I just don't know how much different things would look. You still have to fill out your roster, and I think it is becoming increasingly difficult to find players who have the mentality that much beyond the 5th grade level. The theory being advanced here that the coach had to impress upon these guys the importance of the game, that they could not figure it out, is beyond my comprehension.

Maybe Tomlin doesn't have the mental capacity beyond a 5th grader, either. Therefore, nobody in the ******' building understood what was at stake yesterday.

What New England has been doing for the last decade and a half is not even remotely the rule, it is the exception. Most teams have to deal with this up and down, lack of ability to focus for more than a few weeks at a time, ****.

 

[slashsteel]

The problem is that the minute someone says something like "Ben played like ****," you Fire Tomlin Now! guys get you panties all knotted up and interpret it as Tomlin support.

I'd be fine if they fired Tomlin. That being said, I just don't know how much different things would look. You still have to fill out your roster, and I think it is becoming increasingly difficult to find players who have the mentality that much beyond the 5th grade level. The theory being advanced here that the coach had to impress upon these guys the importance of the game, that they could not figure it out, is beyond my comprehension.

Maybe Tomlin doesn't have the mental capacity beyond a 5th grader, either. Therefore, nobody in the ******' building understood what was at stake yesterday.

What New England has been doing for the last decade and a half is not even remotely the rule, it is the exception. Most teams have to deal with this up and down, lack of ability to focus for more than a few weeks at a time, ****.

it isn't up and down it is a trend


a reoccurring trend


time management -horrible
halftime adjustments-horrible
inability to bench a player when needed -horrible
leaving points on the field not going for FGs -horrible
personnel decision making -horrible

And if Ben is showing a trend whose responsibility is it to show him the error of his ways - and make adjustments? Tomlin

I remember Brett's INTs were down for a certain coach and went back up after he left.

A good coach makes smart adjustments, Tomlins adjustments? again horrible


You don't hold onto a mediocre coach because it is difficult to find another.


Plus Rooney's have done a decent job overall finding coaches.


Ben isn't the type of talent that comes around yearly.

I think ownership likes that the team is winning enough for fans to still buy buy buy.


Hell I would actually take a up and down coach and squeeze one trophy out of Ben before he retires.

Good luck getting more than mediocrity out of Tomlin.

If I am wrong I will be the first to apologize.

But it isn't leaning that way.

 

[Stryker]

****** A right! What Tomlin is doing losing to terrible teams is inexcusable. We're a winning franchise, and this game of football is written in stone before we play. We had that game won before we even ******* played it!!! Tomlin is the only ******* coach that loses to terrible teams.

Just look at Ron Rivera and the undefeated Carolina ******* Panthers. No way would they lose to a TERRIBLE Atlanta team. NO ******* WAY!! *what? they lost to ******* Atlanta?" Well, no way New England loses to the ******* Eagles. *what the **** you mean they lost to the ******* Eagles?? Unpossible!!!!!

Nevermind...

 

[slashsteel]

****** A right! What Tomlin is doing losing to terrible teams is inexcusable. We're a winning franchise, and this game of football is written in stone before we play. We had that game won before we even ******* played it!!! Tomlin is the only ******* coach that loses to terrible teams.

Just look at Ron Rivera and the undefeated Carolina ******* Panthers. No way would they lose to a TERRIBLE Atlanta team. NO ******* WAY!! *what? they lost to ******* Atlanta?" Well, no way New England loses to the ******* Eagles. *what the **** you mean they lost to the ******* Eagles?? Unpossible!!!!!

Nevermind...

If the Steelers were locked in and lost to a ****** team no big deal

year after year after year falling short?

big deal

 

[Acereros]

****** A right! What Tomlin is doing losing to terrible teams is inexcusable. We're a winning franchise, and this game of football is written in stone before we play. We had that game won before we even ******* played it!!! Tomlin is the only ******* coach that loses to terrible teams.

Just look at Ron Rivera and the undefeated Carolina ******* Panthers. No way would they lose to a TERRIBLE Atlanta team. NO ******* WAY!! *what? they lost to ******* Atlanta?" Well, no way New England loses to the ******* Eagles. *what the **** you mean they lost to the ******* Eagles?? Unpossible!!!!!

Nevermind...

The difference is that those teams you mentioned lay an egg on rare occasions. For the Steelers under Tomlin, it is a common theme.

 

[topseed]

Franchise QB has to be the best QB on the field every time he steps on the field unless facing another Franchise QB. Then it's a toss up. Usually whatever QB plays better wins. See Peyton vs Brady. How many times has Ben been outplayed by other QBs no one even remotely calls Franchise QBs. Ryan Mallet out played Ben all day Sunday. Even on his inaccurate passes they were good decisions(passes to his checkdowns) just inaccurate. He was the QB making the big time throws. Like Blitz keeps pointing out check Ben's stats in these losses to inferior teams. It's not like he lit up the scoreboard and stats sheets in those games.

Tom Brady and the 10-1 Patriots lost at home to the Eagles and Sam Bradford this season, during which Brady threw a 99-yard pick-six on one of the worst throws I've ever seen a quarterback make. **** happens. Even the most elite of franchise quarterbacks have a bad game sometimes.

Ben had a ****** game, but his coach made a questionable call by not taking three early points, and his receivers didn't do him any favors when he did happen to make some accurate throws.

 

[topseed]

Good point, but, as we all know - Ben has FULL AUTHORITY to audible out of the plays that are sent in. Yesterday, it was a combination of miscues and mistakes that lost that game. Simply throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack or throwing a pick changes the outcome of the game too...

Let's re-live the first INT.

Baltimore literally shows that they are only rushing FOUR players. The LB's are playing off as well as the DB and safeties - guess what??? Ben decides to throw an errant pass over the middle of the field straight into Darryl Smith's awaiting hands (yes, he jumped up for it, but, the throw would have had to be perfect - it was not).

The second INT.

I believe Jimmy Smith studied his film last week very well. The timing back shoulder throw route was perfectly defended, albeit, there was contact after 5 yards - AB never got to the spot and - guess what??? Ben threw it anyway...

God intervened on the goal line INT.

As soon as we lined up 5 wide - on FIRST DOWN - I knew the outcome was not going to be good.

NO ONE WAS OPEN and Ben makes another bad decision to force the ball anyway and the ball is picked off by - guess who??? Jimmy Smith, and he returned it for a 100 yard pick six that was called back because Bigfoot was playing on the D line and we caught a break...

My point.

Ben makes weird decisions, sometimes, but we live with them because he generally makes more better decisions than bad ones. Coach Haley sends in some weird formations that result in failed plays, but we live with him because, like Ben, he makes more good decisions than bad. Coach Butler, while this is his first year at DC - he is doing and has done better than most of us expected at the beginning of the season - and he played w/ Blake at DB most of the year. And finally, Coach Tomlin, while he's never had a losing season, his in-game coaching skills can be refined---he has created the best offensive juggernaut that this franchise has ever seen. It though, is not enough. He makes some bad decisions, but, I choose to support him, because he makes more better decisions than bad ones...

LOL.

I'm so surprised you found a way to sneak that into your 10-paragraph discourse.

 

[diver]

it isn't up and down it is a trend


a reoccurring trend


time management -horrible
halftime adjustments-horrible
inability to bench a player when needed -horrible
leaving points on the field not going for FGs -horrible
personnel decision making -horrible

And if Ben is showing a trend whose responsibility is it to show him the error of his ways - and make adjustments? Tomlin

I remember Brett's INTs were down for a certain coach and went back up after he left.

A good coach makes smart adjustments, Tomlins adjustments? again horrible


You don't hold onto a mediocre coach because it is difficult to find another.


Plus Rooney's have done a decent job overall finding coaches.


Ben isn't the type of talent that comes around yearly.

I think ownership likes that the team is winning enough for fans to still buy buy buy.


Hell I would actually take a up and down coach and squeeze one trophy out of Ben before he retires.

Good luck getting more than mediocrity out of Tomlin.

If I am wrong I will be the first to apologize.

But it isn't leaning that way.

An up and down trend that is reoccuring.

I agree with you. Where we part company is that you may be more optimistic than me. You believe a change of head coach will make a difference. I just don't. I have no faith that this group of players really gets it, including guys that have no excuse, like the QB.

 

[diver]

With Ben, man, I just cannot get beyond after throwing that stupid *** pick in the Denver game, afterwards he said, 'I just have to stop trying to make plays." Is that how he views things? Does he still have to find excuses? He still isn't man enough to just say he ****** up?

I used this analogy in another thread, but it would be like you just randomly going up to a beautiful woman and grabbing her ***, and when you get in trouble, saying, "I have to stop appreciating beautiful women." Almost like some defense mechanism to keep you from accepting responsibility for a screw up.

If that is the mentality of the 12 year, $20 million QB, what hope do we have for the young guys?

 

[slashsteel]

Ben isn't without fault you are right... as his last minute wins are becoming less and less... forcing the ball is one of the problems there...


But a coach should be constantly in his ear, as I think Cowher would have been.

Thing is if Ben is trending in the big games, in the wrong direction. We know it isn't because of lack of talent.

So either your coach fixes it, or you find a more stronger willed coach that can.

If we sit on our hands and keep the same coach?


Then Steelers Nation has to ask themselves am I happy with non losing seasons, and missing the playoffs?

because that is what we will see moving forward, and a lot of it.

As Colbert hasn't shot in a influx of talent to make up for mediocre to bad coaching.

 

[diver]

Ben isn't without fault you are right... as his last minute wins are becoming less and less... forcing the ball is one of the problems there...


But a coach should be constantly in his ear, as I think Cowher would have been.

Thing is if Ben is trending in the big games, in the wrong direction. We know it isn't because of lack of talent.

So either your coach fixes it, or you find a more stronger willed coach that can.

If we sit on our hands and keep the same coach?


Then Steelers Nation has to ask themselves am I happy with non losing seasons, and missing the playoffs?

because that is what we will see moving forward, and a lot of it.

As Colbert hasn't shot in a influx of talent to make up for mediocre to bad coaching.

How do you fix it though? What are you willing to do? Sit his *** for a bit?

I've used the Brett Farve example. While Farve got better under McCarthy (and didn't like it), he never really fixed it. He threw a couple of bad picks in the NFCC game against the Giants that year. I am just afraid with Ben the die is cast. And mostly that die is damn good, but there are those moments, like Sunday. And it is costing them big-time.

 

[GMC]

****** A right! What Tomlin is doing losing to terrible teams is inexcusable. We're a winning franchise, and this game of football is written in stone before we play. We had that game won before we even ******* played it!!! Tomlin is the only ******* coach that loses to terrible teams.

Just look at Ron Rivera and the undefeated Carolina ******* Panthers. No way would they lose to a TERRIBLE Atlanta team. NO ******* WAY!! *what? they lost to ******* Atlanta?" Well, no way New England loses to the ******* Eagles. *what the **** you mean they lost to the ******* Eagles?? Unpossible!!!!!

Nevermind...

Last I checked they were currently the number 1 seeds and clinched at least a bye. But yeah, I can see how that's the same as losing, a second time, to a 4 win team when your season is on the line. Never mind sounds about right.

 

[skialta]

God intervened on the goal line INT.

I'll admit that I'm not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination, but I seriously would hope that god doesn't determine the winners and losers of football games

 

[SteelerSask2]

With Ben, man, I just cannot get beyond after throwing that stupid *** pick in the Denver game, afterwards he said, 'I just have to stop trying to make plays." Is that how he views things? Does he still have to find excuses? He still isn't man enough to just say he ****** up?

I used this analogy in another thread, but it would be like you just randomly going up to a beautiful woman and grabbing her ***, and when you get in trouble, saying, "I have to stop appreciating beautiful women." Almost like some defense mechanism to keep you from accepting responsibility for a screw up.

If that is the mentality of the 12 year, $20 million QB, what hope do we have for the young guys?

I didn't listen to Ben's post game, but I will say this. Ben is the ONLY member on this team other than possibly Cam Heyward that someone else mentioned that takes personal responsibility for his play. Even when it was the line playing shity being like a seive he always looked at himself. Now you complare that to coolshades conference today. He will use the word we endlessly, but what he is referencing will be the players. Preparation, adjustment and team attitude will not be addressed. Bank on that.