Vick was brutal but......

[papillon]

A 3 yard run is a lot better than an incomplete pass, believe it or not.

Just making a point that removing the good plays from a player's stats to show he didn't play well is crazy. So, Bell would have still had a good game at 18 for 45 and one TD? Only because the last yard won the game, otherwise, that's a pedestrian night. Fortunately, both Vick and Bell made big plays when the Steelers needed them. Bell is a far better player than Vick and each made big plays when the Steelers needed them most.

Sometimes an incomplete pass is a good play and preferable to a 3 yard run, the defense reads the play and has a screen pass stopped for a loss (throw it away), 3rd and whatever in FG range and a sack takes you out of FG range (throw it away), 3rd and whatever with no one open late in the game you throw it away and live to play 4th down, etc. Throw in the fact that a 3 yard run also keeps the clock moving in these scenarios and the incomplete pass is the best option if your team is trailing and the clock is the enemy. Maybe a 3 yard gain is okay when in FG range, but not if you can't stop the clock and you need to.

Papillon

 

[papillon]

Hand signals?

Yes, Ben and AB do this a handful of times during the game when they see something and want an easy 5, 6 yards or more. The corner is off AB, Ben signals its coming no one knows but the two of them, Ben gets it to him quick and AB does work. This happens frequently with the better QBs in the league and their best WRs. Every audible isn't entirely verbal either, some require hand signals particularly in a hostile environment.

Papillon

 

[CoolieMan]

Yes, Ben and AB do this a handful of times during the game when they see something and want an easy 5, 6 yards or more. The corner is off AB, Ben signals its coming no one knows but the two of them, Ben gets it to him quick and AB does work. This happens frequently with the better QBs in the league and their best WRs. Every audible isn't entirely verbal either, some require hand signals particularly in a hostile environment.

Papillon

I can get it that vick doesn't have the same signals Ben might have with Brown...but if he needs hand signals for a normal audible, and he does not know them then he is ******* lazier or stupider than I thought.

 

[Slash#10]

The play calling is suited to Vicks abilities. In the 2nd qrt when we ran the ball with Bell like 6 times in a row, why wouldn't you Haley call a PA boot pass???? Vick obviously doesn't have the comfort level to be calling audibles like it's his own offense. It takes probably a year and offseason training for that development. Get your run game churning, them PA Bootleg perferably to his left. Did Vick have poor throws, YES, but he hasn't turned the ball over and I think Haley needs to shoulder the blame on how he is designing plays to Vick that aren't his strength. Get big bodies out there for Vick to throw too Heath, Coates, DHB... Vick had big boy TE and big WR in Atlanta, where their catch radius helped Vick a lot.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Vick is a major concern regardless of how they use him. Take away his 3 long completions and he was like 10/23 for 66 yards. That's a lot of punting. Not to mention the throws that should have been picked off.

Bottom line is that when Gradkowski went down, Vick was the best QB available but not the best QB for our system.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Senior NFL Writer

How's this for a night - Le'Veon Bell rushed for 80 yards on 11 carries when facing at least eight defenders in the box Monday (according to ESPN Stats and Info)

 

[BAS]

It seems clear to me that Vick really hasn't been adequately prepared to run Haley's offense -- either he hasn't had the reps or he doesn't have the skill to pick it up.

That being said, in his post-game interview, he said he was second guessing himself the whole game until those last 2 drives. He definitely played hesitant throughout, so his timing with the receivers that was already out of synch was only made worse. I think once he had the big TD pass to Wheaton he gained some of his confidence back and that allowed him to orchestrate that final drive.

On his run on that last drive... watching the replay, he had an opportunity to get more yards if he cut to the left rather than running down the middle, there was on DB on that side engaged with a receiver to that side and clear field beyond. Can't argue with the end result though.

 

[papillon]

So Tomlin gets ****** again? 'No confidence in Vick'? How about getting the ball in the hands of our best player on the last play of the game? The same ******* thing the Tomlin-Teeth-Gnashers were screaming about the week before on 4th downs when 'Tomlin seemed to have more confidence in Vick'. -SMFH...



And take a dick off a boy and it's a girl. What's your point? They load the box and an extreme talent at RB can still manage over 5yds a carry, plus gets you the yard you need to win the game, when everyone knows where the ball is going. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're attempting to sell. I've seen Barry Sanders do the same damn thing. Line up 10 in the box because Rodney Pete and Andre Ware sure as **** can't pass it to win. Bam 50yd TD Barry Sanders after 4 negative runs. Players make plays, and Bell is our Playa!

No ****, Bell is a player? I can't figure that out. My point is that Trogolodyte (I think) was diminishing what Vick did by giving his stats after taking out his best plays. Bell had an average night if you take out his biggest plays in the same manner that Vick's best plays were removed from his stats. No one is saying that Vick is a better player than Bell, but he made some plays when the Steelers needed him to make plays. It's okay to support that he did enough to help the Steelers win last night.

Papillon

 

[papillon]

I can get it that vick doesn't have the same signals Ben might have with Brown...but if he needs hand signals for a normal audible, and he does not know them then he is ******* lazier or stupider than I thought.

Do you believe that this something that can be mastered in about 2 weeks of work? How long did it take Ben to master changing the play at the LOS? Why would we expect Vick to have the audible system mastered in about 2 weeks?

Papillon

 

[CoolieMan]

Do you believe that this something that can be mastered in about 2 weeks of work? How long did it take Ben to master changing the play at the LOS? Why would we expect Vick to have the audible system mastered in about 2 weeks?

Papillon

Vick is not some rookie....he has been here long enough to know the playbook and in the league long enough to notice when the defense has stacked the line and is daring him to throw....how hard is it to step back and yell "Blue 33" or what ever the code is for the WRs to run a quick slant about 8 yards downfield....or do you think the audible signals are so secret that the back up QB is not allowed to know them?

 

[fogdoctor]

You are reaching badly. 95% of the time on a deep ball against single coverage if it is not complete it hits the ground. Saying he would have gotten picked 2-3 times if they threw deep is a huge stretch.

Geez Fog that is some sweet GM work by you. Able to lure a guy (who hates your franchise by the way, from his current team, knowing that his 40 year old arm is better than your backup and that you will need him. I'm glad that isn't, I don't know, maybe hindsight.

1) Did you know that Vick completes less that 15% of his passes that go more than 20yds? That includes his stats with the Eagles. To set the frame of reference, Tim Tebow is over 20%. And you want him to throw deep? Although, technically you are correct so I will concede this point fully with the caveat that his passes are so bad that the WR and the DB have no shot.

2) We should have snagged Hasselbeck. He was a UFA in 2015 and we could have signed him. What is your point? Holy crap! I'm not a GM but he was the best available backup on a terrible QB market. The bigger question is: Are you happy with our backups? Gradkowski is not a serious option at #2 (IMO) and it seems obvious to everyone except the Steelers FO that Landry Jones is not an NFL player. Now we are stuck with Vick.

Oh yea, are you also saying that Hasselbeck would not play for the Steelers if we simply offered him more money than the Colts?

 

[papillon]

Vick is not some rookie....he has been here long enough to know the playbook and in the league long enough to notice when the defense has stacked the line and is daring him to throw....how hard is it to step back and yell "Blue 33" or what ever the code is for the WRs to run a quick slant about 8 yards downfield....or do you think the audible signals are so secret that the back up QB is not allowed to know them?

Ben and AB make it look so easy that it appears to be something that a 4th grader could do, but that isn't the case. Even though SteelerNation was well represented last night trying to communicate verbally in a hostile environment is difficult. It takes timing, being on the same page and probably more than 2 weeks to get right and be comfortable calling audibles whether they be verbal or otherwise. Hell, you could see the timing wasn't right nearly all night, balls behind WRs, balls too far out in front on what look like simple pitch and catch. Certainly Vick has been around long enough and has enough experience in the game, but he doesn't have #1 quarterback reps in this offense with AB, DHB or MW.

When he finally decided to trust himself he made a couple nice throws late that were crucial, one to DHB and the one to Miller. The one to Miller is promising because he threw the ball as he came out of his break and trusted what he saw. If it was easy to be a quarterback in the NFL each team would have a HOFer playing for them and that isn't the case. Vick might be better than a couple of the teams in the NFL starting quarterbacks.

IMO, the best bet for the Steelers to be successful with Vick is for him to run the play that is called, protect the football and manage the game.

Papillon

 

[Steelmann]

Vick is not some rookie....he has been here long enough to know the playbook and in the league long enough to notice when the defense has stacked the line and is daring him to throw....how hard is it to step back and yell "Blue 33" or what ever the code is for the WRs to run a quick slant about 8 yards downfield....or do you think the audible signals are so secret that the back up QB is not allowed to know them?

Thanks Coolie for saying what I was thinking all last night. I mean the guy is a 15 year vet. I would expect a little more instinct. Look,I give him props for winning the game and showing character ,but man did he suck against the Ravens and last night. I mean,I get the feeling our whole steeler nation was pissed off the first 3.5 quarters,especially with the field position we were given in the second half. I was almost agreeing with Gruden that it was time for a qb switch. Everyone seems to like blaming The Todster here,but really,some of those throws were god awful .throws that I expect any guy that's been in the league that long to make.

 

[SteelerSask2]

1) Did you know that Vick completes less that 15% of his passes that go more than 20yds? That includes his stats with the Eagles. To set the frame of reference, Tim Tebow is over 20%. And you want him to throw deep? Although, technically you are correct so I will concede this point fully with the caveat that his passes are so bad that the WR and the DB have no shot.

2) We should have snagged Hasselbeck. He was a UFA in 2015 and we could have signed him. What is your point? Holy crap! I'm not a GM but he was the best available backup on a terrible QB market. The bigger question is: Are you happy with our backups? Gradkowski is not a serious option at #2 (IMO) and it seems obvious to everyone except the Steelers FO that Landry Jones is not an NFL player. Now we are stuck with Vick.

Oh yea, are you also saying that Hasselbeck would not play for the Steelers if we simply offered him more money than the Colts?

The Steelers were not in the market for a backup QB in February. There were probably three or four that would have been considered a better option than Hasselback at that point. They liked Gradkowski.

 

[wig]

Who says that risk exists, especially when he's wearing a brace? Is it anymore of a risk than injuring the other knee, a shoulder or his head when he returns?

The Steelers have two losses with games against Cincinnati (2), Seattle, Denver, Arizona and I hate to say it, Oakland, remaining.

Every time Vick starts, I think the Steelers are risking their season.

Dude... How selfish are you? You want to risk a career ending injury in the "hope" that Roethlisberger can limp back on the field and 'maybe' play at 70% against Arizona so 'maybe' the Steelers can win so 'maybe' they can keep pace with Cincinnati. Is that about the size of it?

 

[Steelmann]

1) Did you know that Vick completes less that 15% of his passes that go more than 20yds? That includes his stats with the Eagles. To set the frame of reference, Tim Tebow is over 20%. And you want him to throw deep? Although, technically you are correct so I will concede this point fully with the caveat that his passes are so bad that the WR and the DB have no shot.

2) We should have snagged Hasselbeck. He was a UFA in 2015 and we could have signed him. What is your point? Holy crap! I'm not a GM but he was the best available backup on a terrible QB market. The bigger question is: Are you happy with our backups? Gradkowski is not a serious option at #2 (IMO) and it seems obvious to everyone except the Steelers FO that Landry Jones is not an NFL player. Now we are stuck with Vick.

Oh yea, are you also saying that Hasselbeck would not play for the Steelers if we simply offered him more money than the Colts?

LOL

Reading that post,I was wondering if you take that certain game off of Tebow's stats,what his over 20 yard completion percentage would be.

 

[Troglodyte]

Dude... How selfish are you? You want to risk a career ending injury in the "hope" that Roethlisberger can limp back on the field and 'maybe' play at 70% against Arizona so 'maybe' the Steelers can win so 'maybe' they can keep pace with Cincinnati. Is that about the size of it?

Dude, Do you know that for a fact? People said Peyton Manning shouldn't return to the NFL because he risked being paralyzed and then his Medical Doctor said nonsense, he didn't risk that anymore than anyone else playing the game.

 

[CoolieMan]

Ben and AB make it look so easy that it appears to be something that a 4th grader could do, but that isn't the case. Even though SteelerNation was well represented last night trying to communicate verbally in a hostile environment is difficult. It takes timing, being on the same page and probably more than 2 weeks to get right and be comfortable calling audibles whether they be verbal or otherwise. Hell, you could see the timing wasn't right nearly all night, balls behind WRs, balls too far out in front on what look like simple pitch and catch. Certainly Vick has been around long enough and has enough experience in the game, but he doesn't have #1 quarterback reps in this offense with AB, DHB or MW.

When he finally decided to trust himself he made a couple nice throws late that were crucial, one to DHB and the one to Miller. The one to Miller is promising because he threw the ball as he came out of his break and trusted what he saw. If it was easy to be a quarterback in the NFL each team would have a HOFer playing for them and that isn't the case. Vick might be better than a couple of the teams in the NFL starting quarterbacks.

IMO, the best bet for the Steelers to be successful with Vick is for him to run the play that is called, protect the football and manage the game.

Papillon

The pass to DHB was way too high and left him exposed to what could have been a crushing hit....

if the other side knows vick is just going to run what is called, they will continue to stack the box on 1st and 2nd down and dare the inaccurate vick to beat them.....

 

[Hines57]

We were calling for Landry to get in, that's how bad Vick was last night before the last two drives.

 

[Troglodyte]

Just making a point that removing the good plays from a player's stats to show he didn't play well is crazy. So, Bell would have still had a good game at 18 for 45 and one TD?

Sometimes an incomplete pass is a good play and preferable to a 3 yard run

Take out Bell's and Vick's three worst plays as well and Bell's stats start to look good again while Vick's still suck. It's like a Pareto analysis: what happens 80% of time.

The only time an incomplete pass is a good play is when you use it to intentionally stop the clock. And that's not really a play. But I digress.

I'm excited about Bell playing going forward, I dread Vick playing going forward. If the Steelers released him today, I'm not sure anyone would snatch him up.

 

[Troglodyte]

We were calling for Landry to get in, that's how bad Vick was last night before the last two drives.

The one good point that the Vick defenders have made is that his struggles didn't crush his confidence. I don't think that happens with a young guy.

 

[Sarge]

The one good point that the Vick defenders have made is that his struggles didn't crush his confidence. I don't think that happens with a young guy.

I really don't see how having to wait behind a 40 year old washed up QB with a few weeks in the offenser that throws like Edward Scissorhands is really building a youg guy's confidence.

 

[papillon]

The pass to DHB was way too high and left him exposed to what could have been a crushing hit....

if the other side knows vick is just going to run what is called, they will continue to stack the box on 1st and 2nd down and dare the inaccurate vick to beat them.....

True, but every quarterback hangs a receiver out to dry from time to time, even Ben. It was a good enough throw on the run to keep the drive alive and that's the most important part of it. DHB made a great play to catch and hold on to the ball after being upended.

Papillon

 

[Troglodyte]

I really don't see how having to wait behind a 40 year old washed up QB with a few weeks in the offenser that throws like Edward Scissorhands is really building a youg guy's confidence.

Who cares about Landry Jones confidence? I just want to win games.

 

[madinsomniac]

Vick is not some rookie....he has been here long enough to know the playbook and in the league long enough to notice when the defense has stacked the line and is daring him to throw....how hard is it to step back and yell "Blue 33" or what ever the code is for the WRs to run a quick slant about 8 yards downfield....or do you think the audible signals are so secret that the back up QB is not allowed to know them?

Again, either Vick doesnt know them, or wont use them (either of which would make him stupid) or Haley wont allow him to audible out... which would make haley a dumbass... something funky is going on there.....