• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Training esceeding human limits

S

SteelerSask2

Regular Member
Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
16,129
Reaction score
16,112
Points
113
Location
Western Canada
Exceeding sorry

When you watch Kelvin Benjamin tear his ACL today and likewise the first round kid in Jacksonville at the beginning of OTA's you really have to say to yourself that these guys are exceeding intended human performance by too much. I ref and play a ton of men's recreational touch football. At the top division level these aren't regular old men running around for exercise. A good half or more have played post secondary football and can do **** the average joe can't dream of. Never seen anyone do anything like that. No contact whatsoever, 24 years old and blowing out their knee like that. Shouldn't happen. To me this is a situation like a race horse that is just too powerful and breaks his leg from his own strength. All this modern training cannot strengthen those ligaments and tendons. At least not enough to compensate for the torque their muscles produce.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From what I'm hearing outta Charlotte the field conditions were rough and his foot stuck, **** happens with ACLs
 
I misread that and thought it said Beachum not Benjamin, I thought that sucks big time right there. Sorry for the kid that got injured and glad it was not one of our kids.
 
Bring back 2 a days and tackling in full pads for every practice - toughen them up
 
With the CBA just days from falling apart that's pretty likely.

I think owners will be in a position by next season to say. "Ya, you work for me. You'll do pretty much whatever the ******* coach tells you to." Don't like it?, Go work for the other ******* owner down the road, keep in mind though. I'm going to give him a call and he's going to automatically pay you 5% less."
 
It really doesn't seem to me that the reduction of contact in practice has reduced injuries. I'd say the Steelers tackling and general physicality has for sure diminished. There is a general movement in football to move toward the Seahawk/rugby style tackle as opposed to traditional head across tackling. As a coach for the purpose of play timing, gap responsibility, coverage etc. Thud scrimmage is really good enough. However for building a high level of physicality I doubt it. However, I doubt they ever did a whole lot of full contact in season ever. Too much opportunity for injury.
 
There's roughly 2,900 athletes (90 x 32 teams) fighting for a roster spot right now. We know that every week there are injuries in this sport and others from competing. We can't say what triggers the injuries. He may have had damage to the ligament prior to completely tearing it and this was the final act. All we know is that these injuries happen and we have to be hopeful that when they do happen they aren't wearing black and gold and hopefully aren't impact players. When top tier talent goes down with an injury, it presents an opportunity for someone else to step up.
 
I would say that for sure what is required to become the top tier athlete of today is exceeding what the human body is capable of doing. Running and cutting shouldn't tear that ligament or weekend warriors should be blowing out their knees all the time. Problem is these guys can produce forces so far beyond the average person. He runs like an Olympic sprinter and goes from top speed to nothing so quickly that something will give.
 
Their training habits have nothing to do with tearing ACL's. An ACL is a ligament and not a muscle. It can tear by just stepping on the curb wrong.
 
Atlsteelers said:
Their training habits have nothing to do with tearing ACL's. An ACL is a ligament and not a muscle. It can tear by just stepping on the curb wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes but I'm pretty sure being able to run a 4.4 40 and then slamming on the brakes to nothing has a little bit to do with that. Like let's get real here boys. These injuries where no contact is involved are clearly increasing.
 
Atlsteelers said:
Their training habits have nothing to do with tearing ACL's. An ACL is a ligament and not a muscle. It can tear by just stepping on the curb wrong.
Click to expand...

The science has already shown if you use performance enhancing drugs to exponentially increase muscle size, it places an overload on the joints. Now projecting forward, joint injuries should increase, but not all joint injuries are because of performance enhancing drugs.
 
SteelerSask said:
Exceeding sorry

When you watch Kelvin Benjamin tear his ACL today and likewise the first round kid in Jacksonville at the beginning of OTA's you really have to say to yourself that these guys are exceeding intended human performance by too much. I ref and play a ton of men's recreational touch football. At the top division level these aren't regular old men running around for exercise. A good half or more have played post secondary football and can do **** the average joe can't dream of. Never seen anyone do anything like that. No contact whatsoever, 24 years old and blowing out their knee like that. Shouldn't happen. To me this is a situation like a race horse that is just too powerful and breaks his leg from his own strength. All this modern training cannot strengthen those ligaments and tendons. At least not enough to compensate for the torque their muscles produce.
Click to expand...

Didn't know you played in the NFL. Why are you masquerading as a fan? :biggrin:
 
And the science of training has increased exponentially as well. The problem is that the data focuses on the results and it is undeniable. I don't think there are studies on the effects of injuries from the ability to box jump 50 some inches into the air. There are performance centers for kids 12 years old now. These centers have more scientific training then NFL players received 15 years ago.
 
Steelerfan said:
Didn't know you played in the NFL. Why are you masquerading as a fan? :biggrin:
Click to expand...
Really don't know what you are trying to get at from that statement. What I said is that I ref a lot of guys who far exceed what any regular joe could do in terms of running and cutting yet these guys don't seem to be blowing out their ACL's doing the exact same thing as these NFL players are doing; running as hard as they can to get open or cover someone. Why. Cause that NFL player can produce way more force on his body than even one of these players.
 
Dude, I was trying to say that the NFL has become a touch football league, and therefore you are an NFL player (joke, joke, haha-hence the smiley face).

My post was meant as a slam against the NFL using you as an example. I guess its not funny if I have to explain it.
 
SteelerSask said:
These injuries where no contact is involved are clearly increasing.
Click to expand...

Show me a detailed study that proves that point. It may just be a case that media coverage of the NFL has increased so much that it seems like there are more of these types of injuries. Rod Woodson tore his ACL in 1995 on a non-contact play. Chad Scott tore his ACL in offseason workouts in 1997 (I think).
 
SteelerAl said:
Show me a detailed study that proves that point. It may just be a case that media coverage of the NFL has increased so much that it seems like there are more of these types of injuries. Rod Woodson tore his ACL in 1995 on a non-contact play. Chad Scott tore his ACL in offseason workouts in 1997 (I think).
Click to expand...

One quote that kind of underscores this came from Art Donovan years ago when he was on a pregame or post game show. They were talking about ACL or MCL injuries and the asked Art if that ever happened to the guys when he played. He said, "no we didn't have those." I suspect that both are correct we are seeing more coverage and that they are likely increasing because of higher loads on the bodies of the players.
 
Cope said:
The science has already shown if you use performance enhancing drugs to exponentially increase muscle size, it places an overload on the joints.
Click to expand...

I know two Steelers last season who suffered an "overload on the joints."
 
Well Al I cannot produce a study, but I think I'm going to just chalk it up to basic physiology and physics. You cannot strengthen the tendons and ligaments so I think it is a pretty fair belief that by increasing the strength of the muscle around it and greatly increasing the amount of force that it should normally withstand would put those ligaments and tendons at greater risk. I don't know how long you have watched football, but if you watch a game from the 90's and compare it to now it isn't even close. The speed corners these receivers run today blow away that stuff. An athlete in his early 20's should not be blowing out a knee without contact, much less shredding a Achilles which used to be a late stage of the career/ ender injury and now is happening frequently to early stage players. Here is an excerpt from a 2014 article after a 5 player Achilles rupture weekend
The Injury

Achilles tendons tear when the load an athlete places on it—either via very strong calf muscles, an outside force or both—exceeds the amount it can withstand. Injury mechanisms include:

Stepping backward onto the toes in order to push off the ground to suddenly start forward
Pushing forward into opposing players by standing on the toes and driving the heel to the ground
Stopping suddenly on the toes in an attempt to quickly change directions
Click to expand...
I don't need a study to tell me that the **** that professional wrestlers in the 80's and 90's did to themselves was bad. They are just dying. Same here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top