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Joey Porter Jr.............................. not dad

He did crack the top 25 TEs last year tho, so that does really justify his 9th ranked contract as value

That’s some sad math there
 
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Fiji Mariner said:
He did crack the top 25 TEs last year tho, so that does really justify his 9th ranked contract as value

That’s some sad math there
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There are a few ways to look at it.

For no reason, Arthur Smith forced the ball to Jonnu Smith. That's potentially 38 additional receptions for Freiermuth. Even add half of that total and Freiermuth finishes in the top 10 in receptions and yards. That's on coaching taking the ball out of the hands of their best players--Smith had more offensive snaps than Freiermuth (536 to 522).

Freiermuth is making less money than Kittle, McBride, Pitts, Likely, Andrews, Schultz, Kmet, and Ferguson. How does he rate compared to these guys as a player? Kittle, McBride, Pitts, and Schultz are all better. Freiermuth is about the same level, or possibly better, than the rest of those guys. This goes back to point 1, the Steelers don't use him well.

What about the overall investment in the position? Kittle is the highest paid TE making an average of $19.1 million per year. The Steelers have about $22.6 million invested in a TE 1A/1B situation. Not ideal for a head coach that likes to use WRs.

I'd say Freiermuth's contract is fine and coaching/QB play has limited his production. I love Washington, but that contract was STEEP for what he brings to the offense.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
He did crack the top 25 TEs last year tho, so that does really justify his 9th ranked contract as value

That’s some sad math there
Click to expand...
You are funny. Tomlin has him signed to his contract and then basically takes him out of the game plan. Then you use that to justify him being over paid. You just might be the only person that truly believes that. Or you see that you are wrong and simply refuse to back peddle.

Washington is paid to what... $9 mill per season to just be another blocker? You are fine with that though. 😆 🤣

I am fine with both. Use Muth the way he should. Add Washington into the mix also. A real offense can do that. What we had as an offense the last few year was an embarrassment....yet you want to judge Muth's contract off JUST his last season.

The kicker is that Muth's stats were still better than Washington's. Muth arguably had his worst season and Washington his best.....but Washington is a better blocker so that justifies it. Gotcha.... Make it make sense.
 
Joey, sign the ****-ing contract …………….

30mil per x 4

50mil signing bonus

5th year option 32mil + 4mil roster bonus. + $100,000. Per interception, +1mil 65 tackles + 1mil 85% play count.




Salute the nation
 
SteelerFan448 said:
There are a few ways to look at it.

For no reason, Arthur Smith forced the ball to Jonnu Smith. That's potentially 38 additional receptions for Freiermuth. Even add half of that total and Freiermuth finishes in the top 10 in receptions and yards. That's on coaching taking the ball out of the hands of their best players--Smith had more offensive snaps than Freiermuth (536 to 522).

Freiermuth is making less money than Kittle, McBride, Pitts, Likely, Andrews, Schultz, Kmet, and Ferguson. How does he rate compared to these guys as a player? Kittle, McBride, Pitts, and Schultz are all better. Freiermuth is about the same level, or possibly better, than the rest of those guys. This goes back to point 1, the Steelers don't use him well.

What about the overall investment in the position? Kittle is the highest paid TE making an average of $19.1 million per year. The Steelers have about $22.6 million invested in a TE 1A/1B situation. Not ideal for a head coach that likes to use WRs.

I'd say Freiermuth's contract is fine and coaching/QB play has limited his production. I love Washington, but that contract was STEEP for what he brings to the offense.
Click to expand...


Agreed Washington’s $$$ looks steep too. Projecting Jonnu stats onto Pat is just silly imo, that’s a helluva reach to try to make a case for a guy who has simply been mid in one aspect and azz in the other.

I’d put Pat somewhere around 15-20 in the league when he is being used properly as a pass catcher and a bit lower when factoring in his blocking…still top 25-30 overall. To me he is definitely overpaid, or at least will be next year when his cap number almost doubles to 14…hopefully they trade him then. I’m actually surprised how many Pat Stan’s there are. Maybe yinzers just really love to say Muuuuuth, that helps it make sense because his production certainly isn’t matching the contract (for whatever reasons).

Best part of your whole comment to me is the overall investment in the TE position. The Steelers have a lot of money tied up in a blocking TE they rarely target (and barely use in the RZ as a weapon) and a TE that is a mid grade starter as a pass catcher and an azz blocker. The two together would make one solid TE, but it sure doesn’t work like that. They don’t get to field 12 players because they don’t have that 1 guy that does both.
 
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stillwright said:
You are funny. Tomlin has him signed to his contract and then basically takes him out of the game plan. Then you use that to justify him being over paid. You just might be the only person that truly believes that. Or you see that you are wrong and simply refuse to back peddle.

Washington is paid to what... $9 mill per season to just be another blocker? You are fine with that though. 😆 🤣

I am fine with both. Use Muth the way he should. Add Washington into the mix also. A real offense can do that. What we had as an offense the last few year was an embarrassment....yet you want to judge Muth's contract off JUST his last season.

The kicker is that Muth's stats were still better than Washington's. Muth arguably had his worst season and Washington his best.....but Washington is a better blocker so that justifies it. Gotcha.... Make it make sense.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. 'Muth seemed to disappear last season.
Shades and the Khan Man loaded up on TE's the last couple years but then rarely threw over the middle.
One of the many baffling things about the offense under Shades.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
Agreed Washington’s $$$ looks steep too. Projecting Jonnu stats onto Pat is just silly imo, that’s a helluva reach to try to make a case for a guy who has simply been mid in one aspect and azz in the other.

I’d put Pat somewhere around 15-20 in the league when he is being used properly as a pass catcher and a bit lower when factoring in his blocking…still top 25-30 overall. To me he is definitely overpaid, or at least will be next year when his cap number almost doubles to 14…hopefully they trade him then. I’m actually surprised how many Pat Stan’s there are. Maybe yinzers just really love to say Muuuuuth, that helps it make sense because his production certainly isn’t matching the contract (for whatever reasons).

Best part of your whole comment to me is the overall investment in the TE position. The Steelers have a lot of money tied up in a blocking TE they rarely target (and barely use in the RZ as a weapon) and a TE that is a mid grade starter as a pass catcher and an azz blocker. The two together would make one solid TE, but it sure doesn’t work like that. They don’t get to field 12 players because they don’t have that 1 guy that does both.
Click to expand...



Ron Burgundy said:
I was thinking the same thing. 'Muth seemed to disappear last season.
Shades and the Khan Man loaded up on TE's the last couple years but then rarely threw over the middle.
One of the many baffling things about the offense under Shades.
Click to expand...



Keep in mind that when Ben Roethlisberger was QB-ing, he had Muth once ranked top 5 in league TE.

Ben covered a lot of the “Tomlin & Staff” warts.


Also, with a Tomlin offensive scheme to NOT utilize the middle of the field, voided what was detected to be built with the TE room. It was like the FO knew the value of the middle of the field and tried to account, player wise for it only to be short changed by the scheme / Tomlin.

That my friend while included with many more examples, were reasons the Tomlin was kept 10yrs to long.




Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
Keep in mind that when Ben Roethlisberger was QB-ing, he had Muth once ranked top 5 in league TE.

Ben covered a lot of the “Tomlin & Staff” warts.


Also, with a Tomlin offensive scheme to NOT utilize the middle of the field, voided what was detected to be built with the TE room. It was like the FO knew the value of the middle of the field and tried to account, player wise for it only to be short changed by the scheme / Tomlin.

That my friend while included with many more examples, were reasons the Tomlin was kept 10yrs to long.




Salute the nation
Click to expand...
Hoping the pigeons are in danger this season.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
Projecting Jonnu stats onto Pat is just silly imo, that’s a helluva reach to try to make a case for a guy who has simply been mid in one aspect and azz in the other.
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Not really. From 2021-2024, he averaged 63 receptions then all of a sudden dropped to 41 last season (he only played in 12 games in 2023 and Kenny Pickett was the primary starter). I don't think it's unreasonable that he picks up an receptions if Jonnu wasn't forced into the offense.
 
Drink IRON City said:
Keep in mind that when Ben Roethlisberger was QB-ing, he had Muth once ranked top 5 in league TE.

Ben covered a lot of the “Tomlin & Staff” warts.


Also, with a Tomlin offensive scheme to NOT utilize the middle of the field, voided what was detected to be built with the TE room. It was like the FO knew the value of the middle of the field and tried to account, player wise for it only to be short changed by the scheme / Tomlin.

That my friend while included with many more examples, were reasons the Tomlin was kept 10yrs to long.




Salute the nation
Click to expand...
I wonder if Ben ever looks up at the stars and wonders what could have been?
 
warriors42 said:
I wonder if Ben ever looks up at the stars and wonders what could have been?
Click to expand...


I would like to HOPE he doesn’t carry any grudges around, but would not begrudge him a chance to look back at see the “what if” dream.

Thanks for all your great post(s) and wisdom along the way, appreciate yaz warriors42.




Salute the nation
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Not really. From 2021-2024, he averaged 63 receptions then all of a sudden dropped to 41 last season (he only played in 12 games in 2023 and Kenny Pickett was the primary starter). I don't think it's unreasonable that he picks up an receptions if Jonnu wasn't forced into the offense.
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True, I'd forgotten that Jonnu Smith played for Artie Smith (no relation) in both Tennessee and Atlanta, so Jonnu was probably his guy.

 
10% discount from Gonzalez and Witherspoon is still $30M per season.

Sign Joey!
 
Gonzalez just got 4 years and $135 million with $101 million guaranteed. You know JPJ wants that now. I wouldn't pay him that amount. I'd still go no higher than $30 million. Even that seems high for him but we shall see in the next few days.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Not really. From 2021-2024, he averaged 63 receptions then all of a sudden dropped to 41 last season (he only played in 12 games in 2023 and Kenny Pickett was the primary starter). I don't think it's unreasonable that he picks up an receptions if Jonnu wasn't forced into the offense.
Click to expand...

Picks up some sure, but projecting all of Jonny’s
targets, catches and yards to Pat is indeed silly. Most of Jonnu’s catches came at the LOS and likely would’ve been to Gainwell, or Austin with the targets that went downfield split between the TE that can block (Washington) and the pass catcher (Muth) who split routes 40/60.

So yes, he would’ve had a few more looks, but no way can ya just slap all of Jonnu’s targets on Muth to help make a case for Muth…to me, that is very silly.

Stats are what they are and whenever fans get into make believe world to make a case for a player to project more or less stats on that player that is very silly in my book as it’s all just like a politician skewing the numbers and projecting fake ones to make a case.

This year should be very telling to finding out if he should remain a Steeler and be able to play anywhere near that 14 mill he is set for next year, when I predict his trade window swings wide open…if the Steelers can find a suitor for a 14 mill TE that averages about 500 yards a season and can’t block.

No suitor or a late round pick swap would be clear evidence to me of over market value contract and being overpaid.

Time will tell, who knows maybe Pat earns that money this year in a competent offensive system. Sure hope so. Beats the heck out of the other scenario.
 
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stillwright said:
You are funny. Tomlin has him signed to his contract and then basically takes him out of the game plan. Then you use that to justify him being over paid. You just might be the only person that truly believes that. Or you see that you are wrong and simply refuse to back peddle.

Washington is paid to what... $9 mill per season to just be another blocker? You are fine with that though. 😆 🤣

I am fine with both. Use Muth the way he should. Add Washington into the mix also. A real offense can do that. What we had as an offense the last few year was an embarrassment....yet you want to judge Muth's contract off JUST his last season.

The kicker is that Muth's stats were still better than Washington's. Muth arguably had his worst season and Washington his best.....but Washington is a better blocker so that justifies it. Gotcha.... Make it make sense.
Click to expand...

You are funny

Talked to many Steeler fans that feel the same way about Muth

I’m not justifying anything

Simply my opinion that his production does not match his play which equals OVER PAID, UNDERUTILIZED and the player not being worth the coin. It’s quite simple. Funny that my opinion directly aligns with the actual definition of over paid you silly goose. It’s going to take a lot better argument from you to sway my opinion which aligns with the actual definition of overpaid because… I Can’t be wrong when I know I am still right

The kicker is that Muth was targeted three times for every two times for Washington or a 60/40 split:..so no **** he has slightly more yards which oddly enough ended about 3 yards for every 2 exactly matching the target ratio. It’s like they give the almost exact same amount of production per target…but one guy got far less targets as he was kept in to block, because he CAN actually block.

This ain’t rocket science
 
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warriors42 said:
I wonder if Ben ever looks up at the stars and wonders what could have been?
Click to expand...
Maybe but for most of his time here he had to go up against Belicheat and Br*dy at the peak of their cheating so it wouldn't have mattered.
Neither Chin or Shades ever beat Belicheat and Br*dy in a game that mattered.
When the Steelers were going to three Super Bowls in six years, at none of those times did they have to face the Cheating Bastiges in the playoffs.
 
TDX27 said:
Gonzalez just got 4 years and $135 million with $101 million guaranteed. You know JPJ wants that now. I wouldn't pay him that amount. I'd still go no higher than $30 million. Even that seems high for him but we shall see in the next few days.
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saw it as $102 mil guaranteed this morning.
which is a little more than $25 mil per year guaranteed.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Maybe but for most of his time here he had to go up against Belicheat and Br*dy at the peak of their cheating so it wouldn't have mattered.
Neither Chin or Shades ever beat Belicheat and Br*dy in a game that mattered.
When the Steelers were going to three Super Bowls in six years, at none of those times did they have to face the Cheating Bastiges in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Then add to the fact that HCMT never adjusted a darned thing, so the game plan was the same one for 19 years. It was easy.

So, yes, Ben must wonder what could have been. How could he not?
 
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