Noll, Cowher, Tomlin…fire them all!

[Confluence]

Now one thing that Tomlin got pretty descent at which also was recognizing talent. He was also pretty good at taking the same talent and not developing them and playing them out of position-the list could be endless here.

Big Dot says hi!

(from the NFCCG)

 

[Ike Kelly]

It would have been a treat for us to enjoy.... I still get aggravated when I think about it.... Also when the Jets traded in front of us to get Revis.... Another stinger...

Colbert verified CAR wasn’t going to pick a CB, so Revis was the target. Colbert got wind that NYJ was trading up in front of us and tried to make a deal with the Rams. They wanted an our 1, 2 and 3 2007 picks. We told them to pound sand, and got Law Dog and Woodley instead. Would have rather picked up Marshal Yanda instead of Matt Spaeth, but 3rd rounders were more of a crapshoot then.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

It's wild how hard that is for people to understand, and an 8-8 record is a Tomlinship, those people should be impressed with that.

No one is impressed with an 8-8 record. Never having worse than an 8-8 record is something to be impressed about particularly when said coached averaged over 10 wins for his career. The infamous .500 record is a fallacy he averaged better than .500 and averaged the third most wins per season during his career. He easily could have stuck around and likely continued to average 10 wins or more most seasons probably breaking the record. I am pretty sure his frustration with not winning in the playoffs ate at him just as much as it did the fans and that is why he ultimately resigned this season. I really doubt he was ever truly satisfied with just getting a Tomlinship despite what many of you think. I think he realized he had gotten stale and set in his ways and hung up the whistle. At least that is how I choose to see it and I don't see any need to continue to bash the man, particularly when he left on his own. He did you all a big favor as I didn't see any chance Art would fire him. He did what Art wouldn't do.

 

[Steelmann]

Colbert verified CAR wasn’t going to pick a CB, so Revis was the target. Colbert got wind that NYJ was trading up in front of us and tried to make a deal with the Rams. They wanted an our 1, 2 and 3 2007 picks. We told them to pound sand, and got Law Dog and Woodley instead. Would have rather picked up Marshal Yanda instead of Matt Spaeth, but 3rd rounders were more of a crapshoot then.

I remember being quite excited when they drafted Matt. He was like 6’8” 270. He had won the John Mackey award as college’s best TE. And I thought….mann oh mann……him and Heath are going to destroy the opposition for the next 10 years.

 

[Steelmann]

Yeah, he won a SB, lost a second one due to a Mendenhall fumble. Yep got to blame that on the coaches, not to mention getting them to the game.

Have to disagree Ike. While I agree CMT has been criticized nonstop, I’d think it was a very low percentage of people blamed the coaches for the GB loss. I’d say most blame Mendenhall.
Personally I’ve always put more blame on the Big Ben and the offense in the first half. Those interceptions,one being a pick 6 were killers against a team led by AR in his prime. And yet redemption could have been made. Having the ball with 2 minutes to go for the win……and for me it was the most disappointing drive in the Steelers history. Absolutely horrible.

While obviously Mendenhall is a flake and quite unpopular,I think he’s gotten a bad rap. The fumble was a great hit/play by Matthews.
Interesting enough the week before playing the Jets in the AFC championship Big Ben had an absolute horrible game. All of 10-19 for 133 yards,2 fumbles,2 interceptions. Also giving up a safety. William Gay got that TD and Mendenhall was the offense,kicking in 121 yards with a couple big receptions. Without him they don’t even get to the SB.

 

[Psychoward86]

Fans forget a couple important details about that last season of Bill Cowher at 8-8.
Ben had a terrible motorcycle accident that almost cost him his life.
He suffered through an emergency appendectomy as well.
I’d say Ben was anything but 100% for that 2006 season and contributed greatly to the 8-8 season.

Yeah 1 year off a superbowl win so roster was still stacked.

 

[Psychoward86]

As they say, time heals all wounds and we won't know the FULL scope of everything until many years down the road.
I vividly remember the end of both Noll and Cowher's tenures, and the circumstances surrounding each.
Going through it is drastically different then looking back at it.
Chances are likely we'll feel differently a few years down the road then we currently do regarding Tomlin.
What will not change are Noll, Cowher, and Tomlin's records, both the regular season and post season.
What will not change are the players each coached, the coordinators each employed on staff, and the GM in place for each tenure.
These are the constants that cannot change.
But soon, more and more information will leak out after people feel more comfortable setting the record straight and correcting misinformation in the media.

For me, with Noll, it was not winning another SB after a decade. As selfish and entitled as that sounds. But Noll was competing, winning playoff games with Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.
For me, with Cowher, it was the cardboard cutout lifeless emotionless statue on the sidelines that final year. No spit flying. No jaw extendedly protruding. It was the ghost of Cowher. But again, Cowher was competing, winning playoff games with Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox. And I felt like the biggest turd when the news broke about Kaye's cancer battle.
For me, with Tomlin, it was the waste of talent. It was not winning playoff games against Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles. It was seemingly never utilizing the middle of the field and/or making halftime adjustments. With Noll and Cowher, it was never about scheme and coaching. In Noll and Cowher's lean years, IF they made the playoffs, there was a hope they could win, even if they looked outmatched on paper.
With Tomlin, especially after the 2018 45-42 loss to Jaguars, making the playoffs filled me with despair and hopelessness. Even looking at the roster, I was filled with dread because of the coaching staff.

I sincerely hope there is SOME kind of explanation of something that explains the last decade plus of futility.
Tomlin did deliver #6 for the team and us, anyway you want to slice it, even if we see him as Barry Switzer II.
We can't change what was or wasn't, and we can "what if" until we're all blue in the face.
We can only accept the facts, and hopefully ALL the facts come out sometime down the road and we can fairly and accurately judge Tomlin.

And "accidentally " standing in Jacoby Jones' way

 

[Litos]

Have to disagree Ike. While I agree CMT has been criticized nonstop, I’d think it was a very low percentage of people blamed the coaches for the GB loss. I’d say most blame Mendenhall.
Personally I’ve always put more blame on the Big Ben and the offense in the first half. Those interceptions,one being a pick 6 were killers against a team led by AR in his prime. And yet redemption could have been made. Having the ball with 2 minutes to go for the win……and for me it was the most disappointing drive in the Steelers history. Absolutely horrible.

While obviously Mendenhall is a flake and quite unpopular,I think he’s gotten a bad rap. The fumble was a great hit/play by Matthews.
Interesting enough the week before playing the Jets in the AFC championship Big Ben had an absolute horrible game. All of 10-19 for 133 yards,2 fumbles,2 interceptions. Also giving up a safety. William Gay got that TD and Mendenhall was the offense,kicking in 121 yards with a couple big receptions. Without him they don’t even get to the SB.

Whiff Johnson was the culprit of Mendenhall fumble, horrible blocking.

And the OL was half responsible for Ben's int, they got to him while he was making the pass

 

[Coryea]

No one is impressed with an 8-8 record. Never having worse than an 8-8 record is something to be impressed about particularly when said coached averaged over 10 wins for his career. The infamous .500 record is a fallacy he averaged better than .500 and averaged the third most wins per season during his career. He easily could have stuck around and likely continued to average 10 wins or more most seasons probably breaking the record. I am pretty sure his frustration with not winning in the playoffs ate at him just as much as it did the fans and that is why he ultimately resigned this season. I really doubt he was ever truly satisfied with just getting a Tomlinship despite what many of you think. I think he realized he had gotten stale and set in his ways and hung up the whistle. At least that is how I choose to see it and I don't see any need to continue to bash the man, particularly when he left on his own. He did you all a big favor as I didn't see any chance Art would fire him. He did what Art wouldn't do.

Yeah the non losing thing was impressive, but the fact no one cares about it anymore because of his atrocious historic playoff slump makes everyone overlook those non losing seasons, just shows how really bad that playoff drought is.
I'm not so sure Tomlin did step down on his own, him being here almost 20 years and then stepping down on his own and not having a press conference makes me think he may have been fired.

 

[Badcat]

Yeah the non losing thing was impressive, but the fact no one cares about it anymore because of his atrocious historic playoff slump makes everyone overlook those non losing seasons, just shows how really bad that playoff drought is.
I'm not so sure Tomlin did step down on his own, him being here almost 20 years and then stepping down on his own and not having a press conference makes me think he may have been fired.

Agreed. Even his letter to the fans wasn't authentic, it's not how he speaks at all. Art did what I thought he didn't have the balls to do. The future is uncertain but at least we as fans now have a sliver of hope for something other than mediocrity. I'm willing to go through a few losing seasons if it means a rebuild.

 

[slashsteel]

Agreed. Even his letter to the fans wasn't authentic, it's not how he speaks at all. Art did what I thought he didn't have the balls to do. The future is uncertain but at least we as fans now have a sliver of hope for something other than mediocrity. I'm willing to go through a few losing seasons if it means a rebuild.

I see the possibility of being influenced and definitely odd how he didn’t go into anything in depth after stepping down.

I would like to see him expand on this in the future. That probably is contingent on whether he plans to coach again..

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Yeah the non losing thing was impressive, but the fact no one cares about it anymore because of his atrocious historic playoff slump makes everyone overlook those non losing seasons, just shows how really bad that playoff drought is.
I'm not so sure Tomlin did step down on his own, him being here almost 20 years and then stepping down on his own and not having a press conference makes me think he may have been fired.

Multiple reports from people close to him have said he planned this all year, and he is done coaching altogether.

 

[Coryea]

Multiple reports from people close to him have said he planned this all year, and he is done coaching altogether.

If true, he absolutely would've had an exit presser, no doubt.

 

[Confluence]

Whiff Johnson was the culprit of Mendenhall fumble, horrible blocking.

And the OL was half responsible for Ben's int, they got to him while he was making the pass

Most of the GB secondary were injured before or during the game. When Tomlin was asked afterwards why he didn't attack those backups he mumbled about that not being the gameplay or similar. Horrible situational awareness by the HC led to lack of adjustments.

Whiff, Ben and Spinthenfall all get a share of the blame pie, but Tomlin certainly deserves a big slice.

 

[Coryea]

Most of the GB secondary were injured before or during the game. When Tomlin was asked afterwards why he didn't attack those backups he mumbled about that not being the gameplay or similar. Horrible situational awareness by the HC led to lack of adjustments.

Whiff, Ben and Spinthenfall all get a share of the blame pie, but Tomlin certainly deserves a big slice.

Throw Kemo in there, supposedly our toughest OLinemen got shoved right into Ben as he was throwing that pass that ended in a pick 6

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

If true, he absolutely would've had an exit presser, no doubt.

Why? Maybe he needs some time. Maybe things at home aren’t good as the rumors have said and he wants to avoid the press. People want to read too much into it either way. He is gone, Let’s all move on.

 

[slashsteel]

Why? Maybe he needs some time. Maybe things at home aren’t good as the rumors have said and he wants to avoid the press. People want to read too much into it either way. He is gone, Let’s all move on.

Because you are a supporter and they are discussing scenarios for his departure they have to move on from the discussion?

Only current situations can be discussed?

I would say past and present Steelers and football talk is perfectly acceptable for a football message board or not?

I think also it is ok for some to move on and some to continue their discussions. He’ll it hasn’t even reached midget RB thread status yet.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Because you are a supporter and they are discussing scenarios for his departure they have to move on from the discussion?

Only current situations can be discussed?

I would say past and present Steelers and football talk is perfectly acceptable for a football message board or not?

I think also it is ok for some to move on and some to continue their discussions. He’ll it hasn’t even reached midget RB thread status yet.

It is acceptable but we have so much better topics to argue about now with a coaching search. Why dwell on unprovable speculation on why he left. Just be happy he did.

 

[slashsteel]

It is acceptable but we have so much better topics to argue about now with a coaching search. Why dwell on unprovable speculation on why he left. Just be happy he did.

It is why there is multiple threads for multiple topics.

You are asking fanatics why they dwell on football topics?

Cmon man you know this topic is fresh with some grey areas people will debate.

It will die down soon I am sure and there will be more annoying topics. And some less than annoying.

 

[Coryea]

Why? Maybe he needs some time. Maybe things at home aren’t good as the rumors have said and he wants to avoid the press. People want to read too much into it either way. He is gone, Let’s all move on.

Because he's an egomaniac, he'd want to give his side of why he stepped down, why he didn't want to continue anymore, etc. etc.
Maybe he will eventually, but there's nothing wrong with asking or discussing it, this is a Steeler message board and the 3rd coach since 1969, who has been here 19 years is no longer here. That's pretty big news, whether you wanted him out or wanted him to stay.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Have to disagree Ike. While I agree CMT has been criticized nonstop, I’d think it was a very low percentage of people blamed the coaches for the GB loss. I’d say most blame Mendenhall.
Personally I’ve always put more blame on the Big Ben and the offense in the first half. Those interceptions,one being a pick 6 were killers against a team led by AR in his prime. And yet redemption could have been made. Having the ball with 2 minutes to go for the win……and for me it was the most disappointing drive in the Steelers history. Absolutely horrible.

While obviously Mendenhall is a flake and quite unpopular,I think he’s gotten a bad rap. The fumble was a great hit/play by Matthews.
Interesting enough the week before playing the Jets in the AFC championship Big Ben had an absolute horrible game. All of 10-19 for 133 yards,2 fumbles,2 interceptions. Also giving up a safety. William Gay got that TD and Mendenhall was the offense,kicking in 121 yards with a couple big receptions. Without him they don’t even get to the SB.

Simple fact is that the Packers were the better team that day. I can’t ***** about it.

 

[slashsteel]

If true, he absolutely would've had an exit presser, no doubt.

Yeah you would think. If you planned it or thought about it all season would you be cocky with chest thumps or laid back and just soaking it in. Would you tell your players I wasn’t good enough a man notorious for not taking blame? Or would that even cross your mind because you already pre planned it? Wouldn’t you just thank them and tell them you enjoyed coaching them? Not good enough screams of a short term decide based of the playoff result. Which would go against the all year long premise. A last second decide you would probably would sleep on it a little right?

Now if someone pushed you to the door you could be irritated. F*** the fans who chanted for my firing and media…I am upset and I will say bye to players and beat feet.

Seems this would make sense more so than some of the narratives I have heard to date.

You like going out on these terms so you wouldn’t challenge it.

As they say in the medical industry I can’t rule it out as a possibility.

Not to forget Bruce was pushed to the door and was mad so he told it like it was. So it wouldn’t be the first time the Rooney’s pushed a man to the door and opened it.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Yeah you would think. If you planned it or thought about it all season would you be cocky with chest thumps or laid back and just soaking it in. Would you tell your players I wasn’t good enough a man notorious for not taking blame? Or would that even cross your mind because you already pre planned it? Wouldn’t you just thank them and tell them you enjoyed coaching them? Not good enough screams of a short term decide based of the playoff result. Which would go against the all year long premise. A last second decide you would probably would sleep on it a little right?

Now if someone pushed you to the door you could be irritated. F*** the fans who chanted for my firing and media…I am upset and I will say bye to players and beat feet.

Seems this would make sense more so than some of the narratives I have heard to date.

You like going out on these terms so you wouldn’t challenge it.

As they say in the medical industry I can’t rule it out as a possibility.

Not to forget Bruce was pushed to the door and was mad so he told it like it was. So it wouldn’t be the first time the Rooney’s pushed a man to the door and opened it.

Jay Glazer already started the hit pieces.
-Talked about Tomlin covering things up (no QB, aging defensive stars...said Steelers have to move on from the stars)
-Steelers don't spend like other teams
-Said "Mike T's done. He's done. He's been done."
-7 teams called Glazer about Tomlin

 

[MTC]

Noll: I only saw the end of Noll's career. He seemed to have two eras: the 1969-1984 where he built one of the greatest dynasties in all of sports before a final AFC Championship loss in the 1984 season. The rest of his career was mediocre to bad football.

Cowher: His career was incredibly consistent with a couple of dropoffs. His teams never went more than 3 years without making an AFC Championship game. He achieved this with 3 eras of QBs (O'Donnell, Stewart, and Roethlisberger) and just reloaded his defenses. The lack of Super Bowls stands out.

Tomlin: Tomlin started out hot with one Super Bowl win and two appearances in 4 years. The next segment of his career through 2017 felt like disappointment after disappointent as excellent teams in the regular season couldn't get it done in the playoffs. After a transition period at the end of Roethlisberger's career, Tomlin's final 5 years were just dreadful to watch because of how bad the offense was. While it was impressive he could make the playoffs with these teams, the terrible offense was also a problem he helped create.

Can say would’ve, could’ve, should’ve here, but if Cowher’s wife wasn’t going through what she did, I think the Steelers win at least 2 more under Cowher.

 

[WindyCitySteel]

Throw Kemo in there, supposedly our toughest OLinemen got shoved right into Ben as he was throwing that pass that ended in a pick 6

And he had Wallace for a 90-yard TD.